Was Patrick Roy ever seen/talked about as the best player in the world during his career, or close?

[Stephen]

Where is Sakic in ‘96? 120 points and a CS didn’t mean much to THN?

It's funny. Around the time of Lemieux's retirement, the hockey world was looking for the next great player, and the conversation seemed to revolve around Lindros, Jagr, Forsberg and Kariya. Not sure if it was because Sakic was a little older than that group, but he was underrated for a long time.

 

[The Panther]

Yeah, that's right, I remember Sakic being a little bit left out of that conversation circa 1996. It does seem odd. I think the problem maybe was that he was left behind a bit in his earlier years in Quebec, and it gave the (incorrect) impression that he wasn't quite an elite player. Media and so on tends to go for the new, young hype!

 

[lawrence]

I always thought he was better then Brodeur up until Roy retired. It was also painfully obvious then Roy would have been the starter for team Canada in 2002, it was a no brainer among hockey fans everywhere. It was Roy, Brodeur, Cujo.

 

[quoipourquoi]

That's the problem with Sawchuk, Gordie was there and peaking hard.

I’d throw Bernie Parent up there as another goaltender who had some misfortune. Maybe the best back-to-back seasons we’ve seen from the position, but Bobby Orr exists, so just like Sawchuk and Roy, you can’t really argue that he was better than one of the big-four.

If not for injury, Carey Price may have been up there. He was actually winning polls on HFBoards I want to say as late as going into 2016-17. Tim Thomas, likewise, is maybe a hip surgery away from this, given how incredible his 2009 and 2011 seasons went. Thomas had some tough competition though (Ovechkin, Crosby, Malkin).

If he consider the injuries Forsberg was suffering at the time, there might not be a better player than Miikka Kiprusoff from 2003-04 through 2005-06 (he even ranked #1 on THN, though this was the period when they switched to predictive ranking). Or to look at a longer stretch of time, Martin Brodeur has 3 Hart nominations in 4 seasons when no other player received more than one.

Hasek has to be the most clear-cut though, because he had his most celebrated season exactly when Jaromir Jagr had maybe his worst in that seven-season stretch (only a 1.32 per-game in 1997-98, when his lowest from the other seasons between 1995-2001 was a 1.46).

 

[quoipourquoi]

Yeah, that's right, I remember Sakic being a little bit left out of that conversation circa 1996. It does seem odd. I think the problem maybe was that he was left behind a bit in his earlier years in Quebec, and it gave the (incorrect) impression that he wasn't quite an elite player. Media and so on tends to go for the new, young hype!

Sakic and Forsberg started 1996-97 at a ridiculous pace, with Sakic scoring 33 points as of November 14th, when other than Forsberg (30 points), no one else had more than 25.

But he ran so cold the rest of the season, having just the 35th best points-per-game production (0.93) the rest of the way that he maybe appropriately did get lost in the post-Lemieux discussion. The names who were hottest in the league down this stretch? Lemieux (of course), joined by the usual suspects: Forsberg, Jagr, Kariya, LeClair, Lindros, Messier, Selanne.

Sakic went a surprising minus-18 in this stretch too, in a season where Colorado won the President’s Trophy.

I think if Sakic continues his level of play in 1996, or at least doesn’t kinda tank the rest of the way, it probably doesn’t take until 2001 for him to solidify himself in the best player debate. Or if the situation was reversed, and he got red hot to close the season, his name might have been tossed around more than it was.

 

[The Panther]

What also could have been a benefit is that while we saw a Roy/Gretzky series, we never saw a Roy/Lemieux series - with Pittsburgh getting upset in Game 7 of 1989, 1993, and 1996 just before it would have taken place, as well as falling short in the 2001 Eastern Conference Finals (meanwhile Montreal lost in the 1991 and 1992 Division Final, creating 6 near-misses in total).

I don't think it's a feather in Patrick's cap that he beat post-prime Gretzky, who was fronting a no-defence, bad team in the Finals. I mean, if you're going to go down that road, let's pause to recall that Mike Vernon "beat" Roy twice in the playoffs.

But I agree it's a pity we didn't see the '93 Mario-led Pens vs. Montreal. That would have been really, really good.

 

[quoipourquoi]

I don't think it's a feather in Patrick's cap that he beat post-prime Gretzky, who was fronting a no-defence, bad team in the Finals. I mean, if you're going to go down that road, let's pause to recall that Mike Vernon "beat" Roy twice in the playoffs.

But I agree it's a pity we didn't see the '93 Mario-led Pens vs. Montreal. That would have been really, really good.

Roy’s teams also beat Vernon’s teams twice (1986 and 1999), so I wouldn’t really say one held a decisive advantage over the other. More than that, it’s not like Vernon was shooting on him. Roy actually had the better save percentage in defeat in 1989 (.908 to .899) and 1997 (.930 to .909).

However, if we’re looking at a time-frame in which Lemieux is the greatest player, had we seen Lemieux/Roy in the playoffs, it could either clarify and expand Lemieux’s edge over Roy (especially if the 1989 or 1996 Penguins upset Roy’s teams) or make it easier to say that Roy was next in-line for Lemieux’s crown had things gone in Roy’s favor (particularly in 1993, which was the only matchup of the 6 in which the Penguins would be clear favorites).

Instead, we’re kinda left with a What If? because Lemieux’s teams lost unexpectedly in 1989, 1993, and 1996 immediately before the matchup (and Roy’s in 1992). Obviously, you can only beat who you draw, and Roy’s and Lemieux’s teams beat all six teams (1989 Philadelphia, 1991 Boston, 1992 Boston, 1993 New York, 1996 Florida, 2001 New Jersey) who prevented the matchup.

 

[The Panther]

I don't personally think it would make any difference to anyone's respective player rankings if, say, the Canadiens had beaten the Penguins in the '93 Conference series. Presuming Roy played very well, it would be very impressive of course, but I don't think it's going to elevate his status that his team beat another team that had an all-time great player. This isn't a contest of shoot-outs; it's a team game.