Was Mario Lemieux the best player in the league from 2000 to 2006?

[TheGuiminator]

When Lemieux came back in 2000 after a 3 years absence, you would expect him to be a little bit rusty, but right off the bat, he was dominating the league and it was like he never left. Even though he had serious health issues that kept him sidelined for the most part of his second run, you can make a strong argument that he was still the best player in the league, because he was ridiculously dominant.

Season	PTS	GP	PPG
2000-01	76	43	1,77 (1st league)
2001-02	31	24	1,29 (1st)
2002-03	91	67	1,36 (2nd)
2003-04	9	10	0,9 (16th)
2005-06	22	26	0,85 (36th)

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

2000-01 :
After 3 years of absence, Lemieux was as good as he was before he retired in 97. Was on pace for 145 points. Pretty impressive considering the fact that scoring was relatively low at that time. I doubt he would have maintain that pace, but who knows? Realistically, I think a 130 points season in 00-01 is a safe bet. Playing a full season, the Art Ross trophy is probably a lock for Lemieux.

2001-02 :
Lemieux’s season was cut short due to injuries, but he was still on pace for 106 points. Being healthy all season long, It’s safe to say that he would’ve maintain that pacing and take the lead in scoring, since the 2nd leader in points was Iginla with 96 points.

2002-03 :
Another season where Lemieux could had hit 100 points but didn’t do it due to injuries. He had a tremendous first half but started to slow down in the second half. Nonetheless, the race for the Art Ross would have been tight between Lemieux and Forsberg.

2003-04 :
I don’t know how we can analyze this 10 game season, but it’s hard to imagine Lemieux scoring under 80 points if he had been healthy that season. I could definitely picture him racing for the Art Ross with the likes of Sakic, Kovalchuk and St. Louis that year.

2005-06
His final season could’ve been interesting if Mario was decent healthy. Call me crazy but I think he could’ve scored between 80-90 points that year. In fact, overall league scoring was high and playing with a young Crosby on the rise could’ve benefited Lemieux’s production, especially on the PP. Don’t forget that Lemieux had 18 points in his first 15 games before his health issues forced him to retire.

What are your thoughts? It’s hard to prove that Lemieux was the best, but if we look at the numbers (ppg wise), he was right there at the top. Only Forsberg was able to match his numbers during that period of time.

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[bobholly39]

That's a really, really hard sell.

I'll talk Lemieux in the 90s all day long - including the years he was retired vs Jagr and maybe Hasek in a hypothetical world. I'll especially talk about his early 90s being able to match some of Gretzky's best with better health/luck in a hypothetical world.

But I think after 2000 he seemed to lack consistency and durability more. I mean just looks at games played? It's hard to draw conclusions from those sample sizes. He probably still had the skillset and tools to dominate as the absolute best in a short sample sizes, but over full long seasons it's pretty clear he couldn't hang on anymore. Way too much games missed.

If you asked 2001-2003, sure maybe. Extending it to 2006, no.

 

[Big Phil]

When Lemieux retired in 1997 even though there was a flock of players a shade under him waiting to take that crown, he was still the best player in the NHL, that was the general consensus.

In 2000-'01 it looked like he had never left. You got the feeling the 2001-'02 season was going to be epic and maybe it would have been without injuries. Mario started 2002-'03 so strong that I remember an article about him telling him to slow down because the rest of the league is looking bad.

The rest of the time he was injured. I don't know, the guy was old by then, it was hard for him to stay healthy when he was 25 let alone 37. I was glad he was able to be a huge contributor in the 2002 Olympics and 2004 World Cup but in reality the 2004 World Cup was the last we'd ever see of Mario being close to Mario. The lockout was too long for a guy his age to come back from and his injuries just took a toll on him.

Other players during his 2nd comeback were better and had better seasons. Sakic, Brodeur, Lidstrom, to an extent Iginla, Forsberg and Naslund.

 

[Hockey Outsider]

Mario started 2002-'03 so strong that I remember an article about him telling him to slow down because the rest of the league is looking bad.

Here's a post that shows just how far ahead Lemieux was in the scoring race in 2002-03 before he was injured.

A Closer Look at the last 20 Ross Races ('94-'14)

 

[streitz]

From 01-04 he was but he was injured throughout.

 

[seventieslord]

Here's a post that shows just how far ahead Lemieux was in the scoring race in 2002-03 before he was injured.

A Closer Look at the last 20 Ross Races ('94-'14)

and I'm not sure his performance really declined all that much; his decline was much more about fire-selling off the rest of the team.

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

When healthy yes.

 

[Sorry]

Not even close in terms of talent.

But it’s gotta be Iginla or MSL in terms of forwards first. There were a couple good D-men and goalies as well haha.

 

[Hockey Outsider]

and I'm not sure his performance really declined all that much; his decline was much more about fire-selling off the rest of the team.

By my count, from February onwards, Lemieux earned 41 points, scoring or assisting on goals with the following 14 players:

Martin Straka - 8
Dick Tarnstrom - 6
Alexi Kovalev - 5
Rico Fata - 4
Tomas Surovy - 3
Eric Meloche - 3
Guillaume Lefebvre - 3
Steve McKenna - 2
Mikael Samuelsson - 2
Dan Focht - 1
Shawn Heins - 1
Joel Bouchard - 1
Richard Lintner - 1
Mathias Johansson - 1

Question - is that a worse supporting cast than the 1989 Penguins? It might be (at least that team had prime Coffey and the talented - though really inconsistent - Brown).

 

[frisco]

You could make an argument for Lemieux on a per game basis and give him credit for strong play in the 2002 Olympics and 2004 World Cup. But he just missed too many games.

Jagr was NHL's leading scorer over that span with 474 points and played over twice as many games. He's the guy. The only player close to Jagr was Thornton and he was 40 points behind. Speaks to Jaromir's greatness that during this "down" era of his career (the Capital years, etc.,) he still managed to outproduce everyone else.

BTW, Iginla was 8th and St.Louis 41st.

My Best-Carey

 

[The Panther]

I think Lemieux was still the best player in the world from 2000 to 2002. After that, it's a stretch. In 2002-03 he started super hot, but by the second half he was barely a PPG player.

Though I do think Lemieux was the best in 2000-01, it's noteworthy that Jagr slightly outscored him in the games Mario appeared in. With big Mario coming back, they each got a little more space out there and Jagr seemed rejuvenated.

 

[MadLuke]

I would also tend to pick a motivated prime Jagr over Lemieux for most of that period, Jagr outscoring him when they played together even in 2000-2001 is not irrelevant.

 

[NyQuil]

It was pretty amazing how important his performance on the 2002 team was considering all the other talent on the team.

 

[quoipourquoi]

Maybe second to Peter Forsberg if we’re ignoring the missed time. Obviously behind a few names if we’re taking health into account.

 

[Jim MacDonald]

If it's cool to ask without disrespecting/stealing the thunder of the OP, in the 01-02, 02-03 and 03-04 seasons, what caused Super Mario to miss time? Was it one "major" injury (a flareup of his bad back perhaps) or was it a variety of the nagging type of injury?

 

[wetcoast]

Scorer in daily fantasy leagues sure but his days of tilting the ice were long gone.

 

[JackSlater]

I'd say that he was the best offensive player in hockey from 2001-2004, at least when he played. Not the best overall player over that span though, even on a per game basis. It was hockey dad hockey at its finest though and I enjoyed watching someone so slow beat everyone just by being bigger/smarter/more skilled than the other players.

 

[seventieslord]

It's safe to say he wasn't the NHL's best player, considering it takes a per-game argument to get him there, and at least one player was better than him on a per-game basis...

NHL.com - Stats

 

[Big Phil]

If it's cool to ask without disrespecting/stealing the thunder of the OP, in the 01-02, 02-03 and 03-04 seasons, what caused Super Mario to miss time? Was it one "major" injury (a flareup of his bad back perhaps) or was it a variety of the nagging type of injury?

His back mainly. 2001-'02 was where he had a lot of problems with it. I feared he would miss the Olympics.

 

[MadLuke]

Between 2000 and 2003 is probably a question where he could have a better chance, he almost didn't play any game after that anyway.

NHL.com - Stats

Number 1 in ppg, but just behind him is a not too far+69 Forsberg who was also leading playoff ppg during that time, there a 28 minutes a game over 30 in the playoff games, 0.8 point a game Lidstrom that is an interesting pick and a Patrick Roy still delivering.

 

[Talisman]

of topic but i think the bestt team that he had a around after his comeback was the 2000-01!! you got jagr/straka/kovalev/Land/morozov and hrdina

 

[bobholly39]

It's safe to say he wasn't the NHL's best player, considering it takes a per-game argument to get him there, and at least one player was better than him on a per-game basis...

NHL.com - Stats

Damn. I think the most shocking thing to me by far is that Forsberg only played 14 more games than Lemieux in this stretch. Considering how much time Mario missed i didn't expect that.

 

[Midnight Judges]

Hell no.

Lemieux was minus 28. Other players in the league more than doubled his goals and points in that stretch. It would be beyond absurd to trade that additional production for a marginally better PPG.

The best players produce the best results. Lemieux was outscored by 90 players, and out-goaled by more than 100. Sure, he was injured. So what. Durability is a virtue in all professional sports.

 

[SeanConn]

yes, he was the best.

 

[GMR]

Maybe in terms of offensive stats when healthy. Otherwise, no. I'd have Lidstrom first because of his two-way play and his longevity. Ahead of Forsberg of Lemieux who always seemed to be injured.