Was Chris Osgood ever good and/or considered good?

dtones520

Registered User
Jun 10, 2008
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Midland, MI
He has always been a good to very good goalie in the NHL. He has never been great by any means and he is a fringe HOFer, just based on stats, at the very, very best. Unless he retires after this season, he will finish with 400+ career wins, regardless of what teams he played on...that is an incredible feat for any NHL goalie. He is in the top 25 in all major goaltending categories and he has played phenomenal in the playoffs.
 

mco543

Registered User
Aug 14, 2006
284
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imo, osgood was usually an average goalie, who happened to play behind the best team of the last 15 years. i think it would be ridiculous if he made HHOF.


how did hasek and vernon not pan out?

Osgood outlasted Vernon in Detroit, and during the second go round with Hasek, Osgood replaced him against Nashville and helped Detroit win the Cup. My point being that Detroit would always bring in different goalies and they could never quite manage to push Osgood out the door for good.
 

MS

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Mar 18, 2002
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BUT HE'S SO CLUTCH!!!!!!1!!

It's funny what the 2008 playoffs have done for him. All of a sudden you see otherwise knowledgeable poster projecting that performance across his entire career and ignoring that he's basically been crap for the last 13 years aside from that one 50-game stretch in the 2nd half of the 2007-08 season and into the playoffs.

And don't get me wrong - he was absolutely outstanding for that stretch. He was playing like a man possessed, who had a chance to change his legacy as 'the guy the Wings won a Cup in spite of'.

But other than that?

Detroit did win the 1998 Cup in spite of him letting brutal goals that whole playoffs.

He was mediocre as hell for the three seasons after that, posted below-average regular-season numbers and won 1 playoff series in 3 years behind one of the best teams in the league. Was outplayed by Legace, lost his job in Detroit.

Left Detroit for 3 years and proved himself to be nothing more than a middling, mediocre starter. Cleared waivers at one point.

Goes back to Detroit as a backup for Hasek, doesn't play in the playoffs. By the time of the 1998 playoffs had won 1 playoff round in a decade.

Caught fire in 2008.

Regressed again and has been probably the worst goalie in the NHL for the past 2 regular seasons, save for another blip in the 2009 playoffs.

Again, 4 of his last 6 regular seasons where he's played over 30 games, he's posted a disastrous sub-.900 save %, which is awful.

__________

Completely mediocre journeyman goalie who's been exceptionally lucky in the teams he's played for, and had one actually great stretch of play in 2008.

The Ruslan Fedotenko of goalies, a completely average mediocre player who has managed to have a couple shining moments in the playoffs.
 

nik jr

Registered User
Sep 25, 2005
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It's funny what the 2008 playoffs have done for him. All of a sudden you see otherwise knowledgeable poster projecting that performance across his entire career and ignoring that he's basically been crap for the last 13 years aside from that one 50-game stretch in the 2nd half of the 2007-08 season and into the playoffs.

And don't get me wrong - he was absolutely outstanding for that stretch. He was playing like a man possessed, who had a chance to change his legacy as 'the guy the Wings won a Cup in spite of'.

But other than that?

Detroit did win the 1998 Cup in spite of him letting brutal goals that whole playoffs.

He was mediocre as hell for the three seasons after that, posted below-average regular-season numbers and won 1 playoff series in 3 years behind one of the best teams in the league. Was outplayed by Legace, lost his job in Detroit.

Left Detroit for 3 years and proved himself to be nothing more than a middling, mediocre starter. Cleared waivers at one point.

Goes back to Detroit as a backup for Hasek, doesn't play in the playoffs. By the time of the 1998 playoffs had won 1 playoff round in a decade.

Caught fire in 2008.

Regressed again and has been probably the worst goalie in the NHL for the past 2 regular seasons, save for another blip in the 2009 playoffs.

Again, 4 of his last 6 regular seasons where he's played over 30 games, he's posted a disastrous sub-.900 save %, which is awful.

__________

Completely mediocre journeyman goalie who's been exceptionally lucky in the teams he's played for, and had one actually great stretch of play in 2008.

The Ruslan Fedotenko of goalies, a completely average mediocre player who has managed to have a couple shining moments in the playoffs.
i don't think osgood "caught fire" in '08.

1st 1/2 of '08 was the best i have seen him play (he had improved his butterfly), but it was not vastly better than his usual play. for a few weeks after he re-signed around the all star break, he played almost as badly as he has in the last 2 seasons.

hasek was also bad for most of '08.

main reason '08 was great was DRW's team D and puck possession was by far the best i have ever seen it. they were like a machine in the playoffs.
 
Osgood falls into that category of players who are underrated by those who claim it's all because of the team; and overrated by those who claim the opposite.

Because of the shootout rules, sadly, wins are not as valuable a stat for goalies as they once were IMO. So to me Curtis Joseph's and Ed Belfour's 400+ wins hold more weight and of those two only Belfour really has a shot at the Hall.

I don't see how Osgood's career is all that different from Andy Moog's to be honest, except that Moog took a second team to the Cup Finals (Boston) and was still a very effective goaltender in Dallas and Montreal. While you can say that Osgood had nominal success for the Islanders, he was not very good at all for the Blues. Yet most would agree that Moog has no shot at the Hall. As for being a back-up on a Cup winner; well so was Andre Racicot.

Like many of this era's players, longevity is inflating Osgood's numbers, making it seem like he is Hall worthy. He was a very good goalie of this era, not a great one.
 

seventieslord

Student Of The Game
Mar 16, 2006
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Wait a minute!

What about citing individual numbers, entirely out of context of team results? (For after all, players are ultimately paid to compile stats, rather than contribute to winning games. :sarcasm: )

Invalid post unless you do. ;)

You can laugh at the idea of attempting to identify a goalie's individual contribution to a team effort. For my part, I laugh at the premise that a goalie should be judged solely by what their team does, an opinion so common in the media and spread to the masses like an infections malaise.
 

Ohashi_Jouzu*

Registered User
Apr 2, 2007
30,332
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Halifax
To use a non-goaltender analogy, I liken Osgood's career to that of J.C. Tremblay. Both have solid numbers, both elevated their play in the playoffs (often becoming much more key contributors than in the regular season). Osgood has his Vezina runner-up, Tremblay has a couple of post season all-star berths (but similarly, no hardware). Both played for the dynasty(ies) of their time, and have the championship rings to show for it. Both are household names among fans during the era, and will likely always be considered good teammates among those they played with. I could probably go on.

But there's a reason why Tremblay watched many of his teammates get inducted to the Hall, and why Osgood is going to watch many of his from the outside, too. Looking back, neither will ever be considered among the handful of real catalysts that regularly propelled their team on to success, despite their decently long and consistent track records of personal performance featuring a couple of really positive "spikes".
 

Canadiens1958

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Nov 30, 2007
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Gump Worsley

It's funny what the 2008 playoffs have done for him. All of a sudden you see otherwise knowledgeable poster projecting that performance across his entire career and ignoring that he's basically been crap for the last 13 years aside from that one 50-game stretch in the 2nd half of the 2007-08 season and into the playoffs.

And don't get me wrong - he was absolutely outstanding for that stretch. He was playing like a man possessed, who had a chance to change his legacy as 'the guy the Wings won a Cup in spite of'.

But other than that?

Detroit did win the 1998 Cup in spite of him letting brutal goals that whole playoffs.

He was mediocre as hell for the three seasons after that, posted below-average regular-season numbers and won 1 playoff series in 3 years behind one of the best teams in the league. Was outplayed by Legace, lost his job in Detroit.

Left Detroit for 3 years and proved himself to be nothing more than a middling, mediocre starter. Cleared waivers at one point.

Goes back to Detroit as a backup for Hasek, doesn't play in the playoffs. By the time of the 1998 playoffs had won 1 playoff round in a decade.

Caught fire in 2008.

Regressed again and has been probably the worst goalie in the NHL for the past 2 regular seasons, save for another blip in the 2009 playoffs.

Again, 4 of his last 6 regular seasons where he's played over 30 games, he's posted a disastrous sub-.900 save %, which is awful.

__________

Completely mediocre journeyman goalie who's been exceptionally lucky in the teams he's played for, and had one actually great stretch of play in 2008.

The Ruslan Fedotenko of goalies, a completely average mediocre player who has managed to have a couple shining moments in the playoffs.

Gump Worsley,Ed Giacomin and Gerry Cheevers could be comparables.

Worsley especially. Great start followed by a career with stints in the minors,roller coaster NHL performances, Stanley Cups with the Canadiens despite never being a clear #1 BUT the goalie of choice for key games.
 

Dennis Bonvie

Registered User
Dec 29, 2007
29,568
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Apples and oranges.

If your below-average 1st line LW makes 4 mistakes a game, you notice. If your below-average starting goalie makes 4 mistakes a game, you lose.

If it were possible to make it to the finals with a bad goalkeeper, it would have happened by now ...[/QUOTE]

Like the 1991 North Stars led by Jon Casey?

Don't confuse good goaltender with hot goaltender.
 

digitaljohn

Osgood As It Gets
Jun 1, 2008
417
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If you compare Osgood's sv% to the NHL average over the years, he does have a 5-year 'prime' where he was well above average.

I've been an Osgood fan for 15 years, but I try not to be biased. He was a very good goalie almost from another era now. He won a cup with the mostly-standup early 90's style and then redefined his game and won a cup with the modern butterfly 10 years later. But his age combined with his size have allowed the game to pass him by to the point where he probably can't be a consistent starter anymore. I have no doubt that he could turn it on and be at least pretty good in the playoffs like 08 and 09, but he probably won't get that chance again.
 

PRMan

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Aug 9, 2005
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www.product4me.com
My buddies and I like to say that Osgood fluctuates between OsBAD and OsGREAT, but he is never OsGOOD. And when he is OsGREAT, he is unbeatable. During the 2 Cup runs (and the last couple playoffs), he was OsGREAT. In some other playoffs where the Red Wings got eliminated early, OsBAD.
 

Big Phil

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Nov 2, 2003
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Osgood outlasted Vernon in Detroit, and during the second go round with Hasek, Osgood replaced him against Nashville and helped Detroit win the Cup. My point being that Detroit would always bring in different goalies and they could never quite manage to push Osgood out the door for good.

Hold on a minute, say what you want about Hasek when he was an ancient 43 years old in 2008 but it was Hasek who pushed Osgood out prior to the 2001-02 season. Osgood toiled around in NYI and then St Louis before coming back to Detroit for good in 2005 after all the other goalies left.

Bottom line is this. After watching the Pens win in 2009 I conclude that Fleury was very important to that victory. He made some very crucial clutch saves very often. Fleury was 3rd (after Malkin and Sid) for impact on that Cup win. Out of the three Cup wins with Osgood (one as a back up) I can't remember a time that he was so crucial to their victory. I never thought "Wow Osgood BEAT that team tonight". I always thought "nice goal by Yzerman/Fedorov" or "how are you going to stop Zetterberg/Datsyuk".

With Billy Smith I thought that. With Fleury I thought that. Even with Fuhr I thought that. I never have with Osgood. That alone does not make him great
 

Trottier

Very Random
Feb 27, 2002
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You can laugh at the idea of attempting to identify a goalie's individual contribution to a team effort. For my part, I laugh at the premise that a goalie should be judged solely by what their team does, an opinion so common in the media and spread to the masses like an infections malaise.

You are correct to laugh at anyone who evaluates a goalie "judged solely by what their team does".

I'm yet to meet anyone who does.
 

ArGarBarGar

What do we want!? Unfair!
Sep 8, 2008
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With Billy Smith I thought that. With Fleury I thought that. Even with Fuhr I thought that. I never have with Osgood. That alone does not make him great

Why does it matter what YOU think when it comes to fear of a goaltender, especially when judging who is great. You are not the coach of an NHL team, and likely if you are afraid of any goaltender in the post-season as a coach you will not last long in the NHL.

Osgood is a goaltender who can win both in the regular season and playoffs, regardless of what team he plays for. That is why this is his first year EVER where he has had a sub-500 record. Chalk it up to the team in front of him (NYI and ST Louis were both powerhouses, right?), but he still performed when he needed to. That's why in the last two games of the finals last year he let in 2 goals and his offense let him down.

Does that make him great? Maybe. Does that make him less than good? Of course not. You don't win two cups as a starter and a Stanley Cup Finals appearance by simply being "okay". (note Osgood let in 2 goals total in the last two games of the 98 finals. In fact the only time he let in more than one goal in that series was game 3)
 

nik jr

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Sep 25, 2005
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My buddies and I like to say that Osgood fluctuates between OsBAD and OsGREAT, but he is never OsGOOD. And when he is OsGREAT, he is unbeatable. During the 2 Cup runs (and the last couple playoffs), he was OsGREAT. In some other playoffs where the Red Wings got eliminated early, OsBAD.
i have seen his whole career, and this is not right at all, imo.

osgood has never been unbeatable, or even close to it. i don't know how he could be considered unbeatable in '09, when he was actually beaten.

osgood's zenith is good and his nadir is bad.
 

Big Phil

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Nov 2, 2003
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Why does it matter what YOU think when it comes to fear of a goaltender, especially when judging who is great. You are not the coach of an NHL team, and likely if you are afraid of any goaltender in the post-season as a coach you will not last long in the NHL.

Osgood is a goaltender who can win both in the regular season and playoffs, regardless of what team he plays for. That is why this is his first year EVER where he has had a sub-500 record. Chalk it up to the team in front of him (NYI and ST Louis were both powerhouses, right?), but he still performed when he needed to. That's why in the last two games of the finals last year he let in 2 goals and his offense let him down.

Does that make him great? Maybe. Does that make him less than good? Of course not. You don't win two cups as a starter and a Stanley Cup Finals appearance by simply being "okay". (note Osgood let in 2 goals total in the last two games of the 98 finals. In fact the only time he let in more than one goal in that series was game 3)

I did not say Osgood was "okay". Most people on here say Osgood was a good goalie. But to have watched the man play goal most of us stop right there prior to labelling him as "great". It isn't as if I am preaching on here by saying "Osgood SUCKED". If that's the case you should just turn around and ignore that post. But I give kudos to Osgood, he was a GOOD goalie. Slightly above average his whole career. That's fine, but it won't get you into the HHOF. Ask Andy Moog. Ask Pete Peeters. Ask other ones that arguably could be in there like Vernon or Barrasso.

Osgood was just never an impact goalie. Say what you want, but other teams feared Hasek, Roy, Brodeur and co. even if they didn't tell the media. Privately a coach will fear another part of a team's game, that doesn't make him a bad coach or won't make him "last long in the NHL" like you said. It makes him a better coach if anything to realize the other teams strengths and how to beat them.

The point is Osgood was never the albatross in order to beat the Red Wings. It was their team game, it was their defense, it was Yzerman, Fedorov, Lidstrom, even Shanahan. Later on it has been Zetterberg, Datsyuk and Lidstrom not to mention they play the game the exact way they did in the '90s, like a well oiled machine. If you were able to get quality scoring chances on Osgood he was beatable for sure but getting a puck past him was not a priority.

Go through the line of goalies in the HHOF. They almost all have Cups. If not, then they have Vezinas or several 1st or 2nd team all-stars. Or all three, plus the Cups. If they have the Cups they were an integral part of their teams victory.

Fuhr, Smith, Dryden and even Barrasso all played in the playoffs at a higher level than Osgood ever did. They could steal a game. I can't think of a time where Osgood stole a game, or a series.

To see how hard it is for a goalie to get into the HHOF you have to look no further than Vernon. He was a better goalie than Osgood. He was more important to his team's victories and deep playoff runs. He has some holes, yes, but try a Vernon vs. Osgood poll and email me the results. The HHOF is extremely strict on goalies all across the board. There is not a goalie in the HHOF that causes a stir to the majority of us on here.

And there have been exactly 3 goalies inducted in the last 20years (Smith, Fuhr, Roy) despite some goalies with very good careers. Ask yourself this honestly, does Osgood belong in this category?
 

MS

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Mar 18, 2002
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If you compare Osgood's sv% to the NHL average over the years, he does have a 5-year 'prime' where he was well above average.

He had a 4-year peak from 1995-1999 where he finished 8th, 12th, 10th, and 13th in save %. I'll grant that he might have been 'slightly above average' for that period, although it's generally accepted that playing for an elite team inflates a goaltender's stats, and Detroit was the best team in hockey through that period. In truth he was probably just very average.

From 1999-present, he's been top-20 in save % twice. 13th in 2001-02 with the Isles, and 16th in 2007-08 when he had his great run with Detroit.

So in the last decade+, he's been generally well below-average with two seasons where he peaked as average. His average finish over that stretch is 26th in the league in save %.

_________

I really don't see how anyone can argue that he's anything other than a mediocre goalie behind a great team.

Hell, Manny Legace is as average as it gets and he looked like a bloody superstar behind that defense - put up numbers miles better than Osgood ever did.
 

17Kurri

Registered User
Apr 10, 2010
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Osgood has been a good, occasionally great, goalie in his career.

Worthy of HoF consideration? Possibly.

Likely to get into the HoF? No, although I do think he might get relatively close on a few votes.
 

MS

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Mar 18, 2002
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Osgood is a goaltender who can win both in the regular season and playoffs, regardless of what team he plays for. That is why this is his first year EVER where he has had a sub-500 record. Chalk it up to the team in front of him (NYI and ST Louis were both powerhouses, right?), but he still performed when he needed to. That's why in the last two games of the finals last year he let in 2 goals and his offense let him down.

Weak argument.

He's played 13 of his 16 seasons behind a powerhouse Wing team where it would be damned near impossible to have a losing record. Has any goalie played more than 20 games in a season for that club and finished with a losing record?

His two seasons in St. Louis were for the Pronger-era Blues, who were a very good club only a couple years removed from winning the President's Trophy (and of course the same team that made Roman Turek and Brent Johnson look like All-Stars). The backups there were posting winning records, too.

And the Isles when he was there were actually not bad - the best team they've iced in the last 15+ years with Hamrlik/Aucoin/Jonsson/Niinimaa on the back end. They were consistently making the playoffs in that period and Garth Snow was posting a winning record on that team, too.


Doc Holliday said:
Does that make him great? Maybe. Does that make him less than good? Of course not. You don't win two cups as a starter and a Stanley Cup Finals appearance by simply being "okay". (note Osgood let in 2 goals total in the last two games of the 98 finals. In fact the only time he let in more than one goal in that series was game 3)

I'd wager that the 1976-79 Montreal Canadiens would have won a few Cups with Bunny Laraque in goal.

He was awful through the first 3 rounds in 1998 and that team won the Cup in spite of goaltending. Trying to cite the Finals where Detroit absolutely smashed a weak Capitals team as an example of his prowess is again a weak argument.

As I've said a few times in this thread, he *was* very good in 2008. But his performance that year was a massive outlier compared to the rest of his career, where he has generally ranged from average to outright awful.
 

Big Phil

Registered User
Nov 2, 2003
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As I've said a few times in this thread, he *was* very good in 2008. But his performance that year was a massive outlier compared to the rest of his career, where he has generally ranged from average to outright awful.

And even in 2008 he wasn't the reason the Penguins got beat. Yes, on the surface he had two shutouts to start the final. But to actually watch those games you can conclude that you or I could have had a shutout. Honestly, hard to believe now, but the Pens were so green and inexperienced coming into that final that the Wings basically skated circles around them. There was barely a high quality shot on Osgood both games. Give him credit for a shutout fine, but again it comes back to whether or not he was all together important in those wins, and he was not
 

seventieslord

Student Of The Game
Mar 16, 2006
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Regina, SK
And even in 2008 he wasn't the reason the Penguins got beat. Yes, on the surface he had two shutouts to start the final. But to actually watch those games you can conclude that you or I could have had a shutout. Honestly, hard to believe now, but the Pens were so green and inexperienced coming into that final that the Wings basically skated circles around them. There was barely a high quality shot on Osgood both games. Give him credit for a shutout fine, but again it comes back to whether or not he was all together important in those wins, and he was not

It reminded me of Brodeur's shutouts in the 2003 finals.
 

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