Was bringing Minnesota and Columbus into the league a bad idea?

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Coolburn said:
First, I'm not saying that there should or shouldn't be 2 teams in the state of Florida. But I see a few people making comments like "area is only big enough for 1 team" or "if Tampa had the whole region to itself", etc. The distance (243 miles) between Tampa and Sunrise is more than the distance between some teams that are not expansion teams (Chicago to Detroit is 237 miles, Toronto to Ottawa is 217 miles, Ottawa to Montreal is 102 miles). Using that as an excuse is just absolutely ridiculous and shows how little you understand things.

The argument that has been made over and over again was that an area like Florida, a virgin NHL market, could not possibly sustain 2 franchises when they were introduced. Grade school geography lesson aside (Yes, let's pretend that the concentration of Hockey fans in the Ottawa/Montreal, Toronto/Ottawa and Chicago/Detroit areas are equal to the mecca of hockey that is Florida :rolleyes: ) the point is that a second team was granted to the state of Florida before the first team ever had a chance to establish itself. Ditto for the third California team.
 

PhillyNucksFan

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What I dont get is why the hell do we have 3 teams in Sunny California that are so close to one another geographically and Why the hell we have 2 teams in another sunshine state Florida.
 

mooseOAK*

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PhillyNucksFan said:
What I dont get is why the hell do we have 3 teams in Sunny California that are so close to one another geographically and Why the hell we have 2 teams in another sunshine state Florida.
Because there are millions of transplants from the northern states and Canada in those areas.

And, San Jose is 400 miles from LA.
 

Old Hickory

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PhillyNucksFan said:
What I dont get is why the hell do we have 3 teams in Sunny California that are so close to one another geographically and Why the hell we have 2 teams in another sunshine state Florida.
2 of the teams are close to each other. Los Angeles and Anaheim are about 50 miles from each other. San Jose is 350 miles from Los Angeles.

Look at a map of the US
http://iwin.nws.noaa.gov/iwin/iwdspg1.html

Notice how big California is. It stretches from GA to Southern Ny. Also keep in mind that California is the most populated State in the US. LA is the second largest media market and SJ/SF in 5th.
Looking back at the last 3 seasons, LA averages about 12th in Overall attendance ancd SJ averages 14th.
 

Hoek

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dolfanar said:
the point is that a second team was granted to the state of Florida before the first team ever had a chance to establish itself.

True, and even more annoying to the first team was the fact that the second decided to name itself after the entire state even though it came afterwards. Should be MIAMI Panthers goddamnit. Bah oh well. Was funny when they used to put that on the scoreboard instead of Florida for Lightning/Panthers games in the ThunderDome.
 

Sotnos

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cw7 said:
I wonder if anyone calling for the heads of cities like Atlanta and Nashville have ever lived or spent any amount of time there, or know anything about those cities other than the fact they are in the southeastern US.
Doubt it! Are you trying to say that people should know what they're talking about before they spout off??? What fun would that be? Then we wouldn't have great, thougtful threads like this. ;)

Hoek said:
Should be MIAMI Panthers goddamnit.
You're right, although that does sound kind of strange. (there is an actual animal called a Florida Panther, for those that don't know)

Somewhat related: did I hear somewhere that the Marlins are changing their name to "Miami Marlins" or did I just imagine it?
 

Pavel

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Sotnos said:
Somewhat related: did I hear somewhere that the Marlins are changing their name to "Miami Marlins" or did I just imagine it?

No you didn't imagine it. In conjunction with getting a new ballpark in Miami the Marlins are going to change their name to Miami to appease City leaders. Not sure when it takes effect though.
 

PredsFan77*

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cw7 said:
I wonder if anyone calling for the heads of cities like Atlanta and Nashville have ever lived or spent any amount of time there, or know anything about those cities other than the fact they are in the southeastern US.

Probably not going out on a limb in saying the answer to that is no. Ignorance is, as always, bliss.

No one wants to live in those hellholes, when you can live in Winnipeg! Plus it is too hot to play hockey there, how do they make ice down there in cities?
 

labatt50

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Jonesey said:
I still don't see why Nashville is bad for the NHL? We have good attendance, low payroll, very competitive, and made the playoffs last year. It's a shame the NHL is locked out because us Nashville fans don't have a chance to show how much we support the Preds.

It was great the fans supported the team in the playoffs, but what about the rest of the season? The fans need to support every game to make the franchise profitable.
 

wazee

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PredsFan77 said:
No one wants to live in those hellholes, when you can live in Winnipeg! Plus it is too hot to play hockey there, how do they make ice down there in cities?
:D :lol :D
 

codswallop

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Sotnos said:
Doubt it! Are you trying to say that people should know what they're talking about before they spout off??? What fun would that be? Then we wouldn't have great, thougtful threads like this. ;)

I would weep at the loss ;)

After enough time on these boards, I've abandoned the hope that even a small percentage people actually know that they're talking about. It's a bit of comic relief for me to occasionally respond to the truly uninformed/ignorant/arrogant (take your pick).

I still think an idea worth looking into is putting one thread up top and having every bit of contraction talk go in there. Because you know, sure as fate, that another thread having something to do with contraction is coming very soon. Always does. Might be easier to have only one thread go in circles, than to have one or two per week go in circles. I'm dizzy enough already.

Just my .02 (after taxes and depreciation of course).
 

CoolburnIsGone

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dolfanar said:
The argument that has been made over and over again was that an area like Florida, a virgin NHL market, could not possibly sustain 2 franchises when they were introduced. Grade school geography lesson aside (Yes, let's pretend that the concentration of Hockey fans in the Ottawa/Montreal, Toronto/Ottawa and Chicago/Detroit areas are equal to the mecca of hockey that is Florida ) the point is that a second team was granted to the state of Florida before the first team ever had a chance to establish itself. Ditto for the third California team.
See this is why you should quote more of my post. As I said before, it doesn't matter about the concentration of hockey fans or fan support in the market. The NHL expanded to the south FL area primarily due to the large amount of opportunities for big corporate dollars. Same is true (I assume) with Anaheim. Establishing the Lightning had very little impact on the other organization in Florida mostly due to the distance between the 2 (there is no overlap in fanbase is why I was pointing out the distance) and subtle differences in the markets (the same could be said of San Jose and Anaheim).
Hoek said:
True, and even more annoying to the first team was the fact that the second decided to name itself after the entire state even though it came afterwards. Should be MIAMI Panthers goddamnit. Bah oh well. Was funny when they used to put that on the scoreboard instead of Florida for Lightning/Panthers games in the ThunderDome.
It wasn't named after the entire state but the endangered animal as Sotnos referred to. The Florida Panther makes its habitat and resides in the Everglades for the most part. The Everglades runs from just south of Orlando down to the keys. And the team isn't even located in Miami anymore so when they moved, the team would've needed to be renamed. The new arena is located very close to the Everglades so the name now makes more sense.. Nevertheless, if the Panthers had been run similar to the Lightning, it would've been one of the best rivalries in the sport. Its hard to find a Panther fan that doesn't hate the Lightning and its even harder to find a Lightning fan that doesn't hate the Panthers.
Sotnos said:
Somewhat related: did I hear somewhere that the Marlins are changing their name to "Miami Marlins" or did I just imagine it?
I believe when they move their name will be changed to the Miami Marlins. The local gov't got that condition when they offered to foot the bill to build the new 37,000 seat retractable roof stadium right next to the Orange Bowl. Government officials along with team officials are supposedly in Tallahassee to get the final funding needing to start building (in the form of $2 million/yr rebates which was designed to lure sports teams to the state 15 yrs ago). I think by 2008 they'll be referred to as the Miami Marlins.
 
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Hoek

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Coolburn said:
Nevertheless, if the Panthers had been run similar to the Lightning, it would've been one of the best rivalries in the sport. Its hard to find a Panther fan that doesn't hate the Lightning and its even harder to find a Lightning fan that doesn't hate the Panthers.

Or if you turned the clock back a few years, you'd be saying "If the Lightning had been run similar to the Panthers." It's a shame we can't get both franchises on the same page at once, heheh. Either one or the other has kind of been in shambles. Bolts still have some work to do to even up the all-time series. I think an even rivalry is coming though. Luongo is already pretty frustrating to play against. A little more talent to help him out and maybe we'll have a playoff series to play against each other. Bring it! :)
 

Paisano*

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Weary said:
It was bad for the league to expand into Minnesota and Columbus. It would have been much better if two of the faltering franchises moved there. But that wouldn't have generated those expansion that the owners love so much.

Minnesota is an excellent location for a franchise. Columbus is yet to be tested. We'll have to see how it works there once the shine wears off.

But bringing those teams into the league rather than moving existing franchises was indeed a bad idea.


What shine?? During the 4 years the Jackets have been in the league, they have the least amount of points of all 30 teams. Despite that, they have sold out 3/4 of their games and have never drawn a crowd less than 16000. Their season ticket base last year was 14000. On top of all this is the requirement of PSL's to buy those season tickets. Those range from $500 to $3000 per ticket. The teams have sucked but the fans keep coming. If they ever get a winner, look out!!!
 

BlueShirt

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Let the Nashville bashing begin!

Actually, I am on old Houston Oiler fan so Nashville has never been a place I am fond of. Of course looking back now, I should love them for taking Bud Adams and that sorry cursed organization off of our hands. We (Texans) have the better team now anyhow. Bud will never win a Super Bowl as long as he is alive (which may not be much longer).

BTW, I don't want to hear any uninformed Nashville fans repeat the garbage they were fed through the local media that Houston didn't support the Oilers, etc. The Oilers always sold out (like the Texans do now) until Bud announced he was moving which was 3 years before he did. The Astrodome was only empty during the "lame duck" season.

Anyway, back to hockey, while Nashville was stealing our NFL team, the NHL decided to give them an NHL team over Houston (they didn't like the old Summit arena). I know you all are bashing southern teams however I think Houston would do great in the NHL. It is the 4th largest city in the US and Houston really supported the old WHA Aeros. I believe the AHL Aeros pull decently now. Dallas would be a nice rival also. I have been to several Dallas Stars games and Dallas has become a great hockey city. I think Houston would do the same.
 

Bicycle Repairman

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BlueShirt said:
Anyway, back to hockey, while Nashville was stealing our NFL team, the NHL decided to give them an NHL team over Houston (they didn't like the old Summit arena). I know you all are bashing southern teams however I think Houston would do great in the NHL. It is the 4th largest city in the US and Houston really supported the old WHA Aeros. I believe the AHL Aeros pull decently now. Dallas would be a nice rival also. I have been to several Dallas Stars games and Dallas has become a great hockey city. I think Houston would do the same.
I agree. I wonder if the old Edmonton Oilers Les Alexander offer can be dusted off.

Toyota Center is an outstanding venue. I don't think Edmonton has the resources to try and match (given how public funding of a new arena is practically a non-starter).
 

General Jacket70

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In response to an earlier post, Karmanos (sp) tried to move the Hartford Whalers to Columbus before settling on Carolina, but voters turned down a sales tax hike that would have helped finance an arena (among other venues). I believe that was what finally got the ball rolling in Columbus for an NHL team and Mr. Mac (our beloved current owner from right here in Columbus) and private sponsors stepped up and delivered for the public.

So, Columbus was originally a destination for relocating a struggling franchise. Thank God it worked out the way it did.

On topic, of course I think that the moves to Minny and Columbus were great. However, it will be interesting to see how fast the Columbus fans return to Nationwide after the long layoff.
 

Tawnos

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It just boggles me that Florida and California are both seen as one market... I know that's been said, but I'm sitting here shaking my head at that.
 
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