Harold Ballard and George Steinbrenner

Nerowoy nora tolad

Registered User
May 9, 2018
1,406
654
Gladstone, Australia
So thinking about Harold Ballard as owner of the leafs, and his mirror image over at the Yankees in Steinbrenner. Its interesting how Steinbrenner was eventually able to restrain his worst crazy-owner tendencies once the Yankees started to win in the late 90s, but the general consensus was that the same thing never could have happened under Ballard.

Do you think Ballards leafs could have been successful if the right person with a knack for managing Ballard came in behind the scenes? Why exactly was Ballard such a destructive owner, with so many of his moves basically coming off as ploys for attention?
 

Big Phil

Registered User
Nov 2, 2003
31,703
4,145
The people close to him, Jim Gregory for example, said that Ballard did want to win. Winning would have meant more exposure for him, which according to Gregory would have been important to Ballard. But I think he just made things a little too personal. He traded players for the wrong reasons. No one could really reign him in either. In a way he was exactly like George Steinbrenner, except eventually George came together and made things right with the Yankees. Still not the type of owner I'd want to work for, but at least he was winning.
 

Big Phil

Registered User
Nov 2, 2003
31,703
4,145
Here is an interesting question, the whole Gardens sex abuse scandal which lasted a long time...............in all of your opinions did Ballard have knowledge of it? He was dead by the time it was revealed. But was it like a Penn State/Joe Paterno type of thing where the powers to be knew about these things but covered it up?

I lean on the side that Ballard wouldn't have known about this because he fired people for much less and the franchise was not exactly known to be a pillar of success at the time. I am guessing he wouldn't have stood for that.
 

Hobnobs

Pinko
Nov 29, 2011
8,903
2,263
Here is an interesting question, the whole Gardens sex abuse scandal which lasted a long time...............in all of your opinions did Ballard have knowledge of it? He was dead by the time it was revealed. But was it like a Penn State/Joe Paterno type of thing where the powers to be knew about these things but covered it up?

I lean on the side that Ballard wouldn't have known about this because he fired people for much less and the franchise was not exactly known to be a pillar of success at the time. I am guessing he wouldn't have stood for that.

As far I remember reading about it was a pretty well-known thing at the Gardens. Ballard not knowing about it seems unlikely.
 

Big Phil

Registered User
Nov 2, 2003
31,703
4,145
As far I remember reading about it was a pretty well-known thing at the Gardens. Ballard not knowing about it seems unlikely.

It just sort of seems out of character for him. Ballard wouldn't have liked knowing about this stuff, but the fear of having it come out might damage the brand...............unless you are the one revealing it. I just get the feeling Ballard would have loved the attention of being a hero that unlocked that whole thing. I guess we'll never know.
 

BadgerBruce

Registered User
Aug 8, 2013
1,557
2,185
It just sort of seems out of character for him. Ballard wouldn't have liked knowing about this stuff, but the fear of having it come out might damage the brand...............unless you are the one revealing it. I just get the feeling Ballard would have loved the attention of being a hero that unlocked that whole thing. I guess we'll never know.

A posthumous settlement was reached with an alleged victim of Ballard in 2002.

MLSE settles sexual abuse suit involving Ballard out-of-court
 

Hoser

Registered User
Aug 7, 2005
1,846
403
The answer to any yes-no question posed in a headline is almost always "no", and this thread title is certainly no different. Ballard was an irredeemably horrible human being, let alone owner of the Toronto Maple Leafs...
 

Nerowoy nora tolad

Registered User
May 9, 2018
1,406
654
Gladstone, Australia
The people close to him, Jim Gregory for example, said that Ballard did want to win. Winning would have meant more exposure for him, which according to Gregory would have been important to Ballard. But I think he just made things a little too personal. He traded players for the wrong reasons. No one could really reign him in either. In a way he was exactly like George Steinbrenner, except eventually George came together and made things right with the Yankees. Still not the type of owner I'd want to work for, but at least he was winning.

Yeah, IMO Jim Gregory is the leafs all time best GM, and probably will be forever in my eyes. He rebuilt the leafs from trash to a truly competitive hockey club twice in what, less than 15 years, and Ballards interference burned it all down both times.

I guess part of what Im wondering is if the right personality had come in with management, whether they could have worked around Ballard. It probably would have needed to be someone as bombastic as Ballard, good at playing internal politics in the sort of way that guys like Roger Neilson were very much not gifted. I seriously wonder if Cherry coaching the leafs starting in 1980 might have worked out well in the long run.

Its just kind of sad. Im not old enough to remember the Ballard era in person, but when I hear about the things he did now, sometimes I wonder if it wasnt a cry for help from him. So many of his moves seem like desperation for attention, I cant help but wonder if some of what he did was a manifestation of some sort of depression or something similar.

Here is an interesting question, the whole Gardens sex abuse scandal which lasted a long time...............in all of your opinions did Ballard have knowledge of it? He was dead by the time it was revealed. But was it like a Penn State/Joe Paterno type of thing where the powers to be knew about these things but covered it up?

I lean on the side that Ballard wouldn't have known about this because he fired people for much less and the franchise was not exactly known to be a pillar of success at the time. I am guessing he wouldn't have stood for that.

Im not sure. I think my final answer would be a definite maybe. Ballard wasnt the greatest human being, but I think sometimes his legacy with the Leafs tars the public image of who he was as a person too much. People see him as the guy who destroyed the leafs more than as a human being who existed on other levels.

But at the same time, I dont have enough confidence in what Ive heard about his character to entirely rule that possibility out.

It just sort of seems out of character for him. Ballard wouldn't have liked knowing about this stuff, but the fear of having it come out might damage the brand...............unless you are the one revealing it. I just get the feeling Ballard would have loved the attention of being a hero that unlocked that whole thing. I guess we'll never know.

That possibility does sound uncomfortably plausible.
 

Hoser

Registered User
Aug 7, 2005
1,846
403
Im not sure. I think my final answer would be a definite maybe. Ballard wasnt the greatest human being, but I think sometimes his legacy with the Leafs tars the public image of who he was as a person too much. People see him as the guy who destroyed the leafs more than as a human being who existed on other levels.

But at the same time, I dont have enough confidence in what Ive heard about his character to entirely rule that possibility out.

Whatchu talkin' 'bout, Willis? Ballard knew about the sexual abuse at MLG: he participated!

It isn't just because of Leafs-related on-ice shenanigans that few people had nice things to say when he croaked: he was a convicted fraudster who embezzled money from his own company, an unremitting misogynist and racist, and to top it off a sexual-abuser too. He was a complete POS.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Uncle Rotter

Uncle Rotter

Registered User
May 11, 2010
5,975
1,038
Kelowna, B.C.
Its just kind of sad. Im not old enough to remember the Ballard era in person, but when I hear about the things he did now, sometimes I wonder if it wasnt a cry for help from him. So many of his moves seem like desperation for attention, I cant help but wonder if some of what he did was a manifestation of some sort of depression or something similar.
Cruelty and sadism are not a cry for help.
 

Big Phil

Registered User
Nov 2, 2003
31,703
4,145
Yeah, IMO Jim Gregory is the leafs all time best GM, and probably will be forever in my eyes. He rebuilt the leafs from trash to a truly competitive hockey club twice in what, less than 15 years, and Ballards interference burned it all down both times.

I guess part of what Im wondering is if the right personality had come in with management, whether they could have worked around Ballard. It probably would have needed to be someone as bombastic as Ballard, good at playing internal politics in the sort of way that guys like Roger Neilson were very much not gifted. I seriously wonder if Cherry coaching the leafs starting in 1980 might have worked out well in the long run.

Its just kind of sad. Im not old enough to remember the Ballard era in person, but when I hear about the things he did now, sometimes I wonder if it wasnt a cry for help from him. So many of his moves seem like desperation for attention, I cant help but wonder if some of what he did was a manifestation of some sort of depression or something similar.

The ironic thing is he has been long gone and Jim Gregory still will say kind things about him and tap into the other side of Ballard, the "behind closed doors" version. I don't really buy that too much. I realize Ballard was a human being more than just a cartoonish character than we'd realize but he did so many things with a poor moral compass.

Cherry in 1980 might have worked. Who knows. Cherry would be the first one to NOT bow into him. And I wonder if Ballard would love the fact that someone stands up to him or would hate it. I could totally see Ballard taking the name plate off of Cherry's parking spot just because he was challenged. There would have been a lot of "Steinbrenner/Billy Martin" type of antics, I can assure you. Many of the other Leaf coaches were more or less mild mannered, Red Kelly, Roger Neilson, George Armstrong, etc.

Things could have changed had Cherry taken that Leafs job. I still can't understand why he got fired from Colorado. Sure, bad record, but none other than Mike Babcock once coached the NHL's worst team no less than three years ago. There has to be a bit of a grace period for the coach to build the team up.

Im not sure. I think my final answer would be a definite maybe. Ballard wasnt the greatest human being, but I think sometimes his legacy with the Leafs tars the public image of who he was as a person too much. People see him as the guy who destroyed the leafs more than as a human being who existed on other levels.
As others have mentioned, Ballard himself was at least implicated doing things. Not with boys but girls of course. The only thing about this is I hate the idea of a blanket accusation when the guy was dead and it was never tried when he was alive. It is very convenient considering Ballard was an ex-con convicted of fraud so it isn't a stretch to think he could be a child molester too with his character.
 

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad