Was always Wrestling a scripted show?
- Thread starter alko
- Start date
Wrestling has been pretty much scripted since its days as a carnival attraction back in the late 1800's and early 1900's. The travelling wrestlers would script matches with each other. But the real aspects were the really dangerous wrestlers would throw out open challenges for fans to "Last 10 minutes in the ring". Then these wrestlers would tie up and beat up these fans. It was part of the illusion that wrestling was legitimate.
Even when you had legitimate wrestlers like Hackenschmidt (Sp?) and Gotch and Thesz, the promoters decided who the champions were, but usually these wrestlers were good enough not to allow themselves to be double crossed or beaten.
Even when you had legitimate wrestlers like Hackenschmidt (Sp?) and Gotch and Thesz, the promoters decided who the champions were, but usually these wrestlers were good enough not to allow themselves to be double crossed or beaten.
Kimi
Registered User
Back in the late 1800s, wrestling was a real sport in the same way that boxing was/is. The matches were real, and the champions were real stars. The problem was that this was really boring to watch, so it fell out of interest and boxing kept going.
At the same time you have the travelling shows/carnivals where you'd have real wrestlers taking on someone from the audience, they were real matches too. A trained wrestler would almost always defeat an untrained audience member, but they'd also have ways to cheat to make sure they always won. On the same shows, they also had expedition matches where two wrestlers would put on a scripted match to entertain.
Into the early 1900s, wrestling shows went from being legit to being more and more fixed to entertain fans. The wrestlers were still real and had real matches, but there were some fixes to make sure that the stars and champions always won. This kept going and evolving into being more and more fake and less and less real, eventually becoming the completely scripted pro-wrestling.
At the same time you have the travelling shows/carnivals where you'd have real wrestlers taking on someone from the audience, they were real matches too. A trained wrestler would almost always defeat an untrained audience member, but they'd also have ways to cheat to make sure they always won. On the same shows, they also had expedition matches where two wrestlers would put on a scripted match to entertain.
Into the early 1900s, wrestling shows went from being legit to being more and more fixed to entertain fans. The wrestlers were still real and had real matches, but there were some fixes to make sure that the stars and champions always won. This kept going and evolving into being more and more fake and less and less real, eventually becoming the completely scripted pro-wrestling.
I think you can find a documentary on youtube, the untold story of professional wrestling??
Covers wrestling from its start till the late 90's (it was made at the peak of the attitude era).
Posts above covered it well, but that's pretty much what the doc goes over. Matches were really long and boring (and technical) so fans started to lose interest. I think one match went like 3 hours or something. Keep in mind at wrestlings birth it was more like Olympic wrestling, we aren't talking piledrivers and german suplexs and shooting star press at the turn of the century.
The Gold dust trio I think they were called were the first guys to lay the blue print for what we see as professional wrestling today. Search google and a daily motion video should pop up. The untold story of Professional wrestling.
Covers wrestling from its start till the late 90's (it was made at the peak of the attitude era).
Posts above covered it well, but that's pretty much what the doc goes over. Matches were really long and boring (and technical) so fans started to lose interest. I think one match went like 3 hours or something. Keep in mind at wrestlings birth it was more like Olympic wrestling, we aren't talking piledrivers and german suplexs and shooting star press at the turn of the century.
The Gold dust trio I think they were called were the first guys to lay the blue print for what we see as professional wrestling today. Search google and a daily motion video should pop up. The untold story of Professional wrestling.
ManofSteel55
Registered User
Yup fun and informative documentary. The early history of pro wrestling is very interesting, but in the end the product has not really changed that much from the 50's to today.
Would love to see a part 2, talking about wrestling after the attitude era/90's boom. Lots of stuff to cover from the death of the other big 2(WCW/ECW), the rise of independants/TNA, Benoit, other wrestlers deaths, wellness policy, and the network.
sabremike
Friend To All Giraffes And Lindy Ruff
If you want to go down a YouTube rabbit hole type in "pro wrestling shoots" as a search. Lots of crazy incidents like Great Sasuke beating the crap out of Dirt Bike Kid, New Jack trying to hang DW Dudley and the infamous Akira Maeda shootkick to the face of a defenseless Riki Choshu.
Also there was the disaster that was Brawl for All (which was a shoot) that saw several guys get seriously injured. The point of it was for Dr Death to win it and be the next challenger for Austin but in one of the most shocking moments in the history of Raw Bart Gunn knocked him out cold. When Gunn won the thing they came up with the idea of having him face Butterbean at Mania. The result was Gunn getting brutally knocked out and his career being ruined.
Also there was the disaster that was Brawl for All (which was a shoot) that saw several guys get seriously injured. The point of it was for Dr Death to win it and be the next challenger for Austin but in one of the most shocking moments in the history of Raw Bart Gunn knocked him out cold. When Gunn won the thing they came up with the idea of having him face Butterbean at Mania. The result was Gunn getting brutally knocked out and his career being ruined.
Moose Head
Registered User
Still remember the story of Harley Race being 'under orders' to beat Dory Funk for the NWA Title. I guess they were nervous Funk wouldn't drop the title, so basically Race, as tough a man as has ever entered the ring, had to do whatever it took to beat Funk. Luckily Funk did the honours or he would have been seriously injured. Makes the Montreal screw job look like small potatoes in hindsight.
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Loosie
The Eternal Optimist
I always thought that Brawl for All started off as a shoot (mostly as a vehicle to get Dr. Death over) but turned scripted once Bart Gunn knocked him out. Especially since all of Gunn's wins were KOs after that.
Of course Butterbean killed him dead at WM.
Nope it was the one rare thing that the WWE did straight. Bart Gunn just flat out had a knock out punch that nobody knew about.
But he wasn't a trained boxer at all, and Butterbean as ridiculous as he was, was considered one of the heaviest punchers around and he was trained.
The sad thing is that Bob Holly claims that the WWE knew what would happen to Gunn against Butterbean but wanted Gunn to be punished for knocking out their expected winner in Williams and killing a big money angle with Austin.
Kind of funny that they legitimately felt like Williams being involved with Austin was going to be a big money angle. It may or it may not have been but it wasn't going to be because of Williams. Nobody gave a damn about him and they could've used anyone who won that to go against Austin and accomplish the same results.
Maybe the feud could have been over the Williams name. Austin wants to get his name back and the rattle snake is going to stomp a mud hole into Doctor Death to get it. Kind of like when Big T fought over the rights to the letter T in WCW.
At the time Doctor Death Steve Williams was legitimately viewed in the industry as a tough guy monster, he wasn't much on the mic but he worked stiff and his stuff looked legitimately real and painful, he was perfect for Austin.
If Williams would have won Brawl for All (And they believed in him so much that they fronted him the $100,000 prize money before the tourney started). The WWE would have hyped him as the toughest man on the planet, and probably changed his finish to a flurry of blows or something like that.
The fact is that for the most part Austin could carry a feud on the mic and it would have worked with Williams playing the silent killer.
Austin on the mic threatening to stomp a mud hole in Williams followed by Williams beating the ever loving hell out of Austin would have made a lot of money.
Even having Williams either kicking out or countering the Stunner would have made him seem more dangerous.
Williams being thought well-of in the industry is certainly true but he wasn't a draw at that time. If it was going to be a money feud it was going to be because of Austin and not Williams is all that means. And at that time, they weren't going to have Williams look strong against Austin. They weren't kicking out of very many finishers during that time. The fact is that even if he had won Brawl for All people didn't give a damn about Steve Williams and him winning that when everyone was questioning the legitimacy of the event in the first place AND didn't care much for it wasn't going to change that.
Wonder what would of happened if Williams did win and feuded with Austin. Austin was super hot at the time and I think a Williams feud would of flopped and drag Austin down. Who knows what feud that would of replaced for Austin. And it probably would of extended the whole JR heel angle that got over like a far in church.
Williams wins BFA, feuds with Austin, kills his heat and destroys the attitude era before it could take off.
Williams wins BFA, feuds with Austin, kills his heat and destroys the attitude era before it could take off.
Ozz
Registered User
I'd always known about Williams' reputation but I NEVER for one second gave any bit of a f*** about him. I doubt the average wrestling fan would have either, but anything you did w/Stone Cold was going to work in some capacity anyway.
That said, I'm all for them pushing whoever they want however they want. I don't know why they didn't just reboot his "introduction" and have him run out sometime and cripple Bart Gunn, Mero, or whoever the other good "real fighters" were. He could have built a monster gimmick out of that, naturally claiming that his fight vs. Gunn was fixed, he was cheated, etc. Classic heel stuff, but always delivering a beatdown. That would have put him over regardless, IMO. Have him run in on the tirelessly-loved Austin, perhaps, and boom - instant feud.
That said, I'm all for them pushing whoever they want however they want. I don't know why they didn't just reboot his "introduction" and have him run out sometime and cripple Bart Gunn, Mero, or whoever the other good "real fighters" were. He could have built a monster gimmick out of that, naturally claiming that his fight vs. Gunn was fixed, he was cheated, etc. Classic heel stuff, but always delivering a beatdown. That would have put him over regardless, IMO. Have him run in on the tirelessly-loved Austin, perhaps, and boom - instant feud.
sabremike
Friend To All Giraffes And Lindy Ruff
Dr Death is considered a legend in Japan and his team with Terry Gordy is one of the most famous tag teams of all time in that country. I may be wrong but I think he is also in the WON Hall of Fame.
Kimi
Registered User
He is indeed in the Hall of Fame. Also won tag team of the year too with said Gordy.
Doctor Death was made for the rough stiff style in Japan because his stuff looked real, and was stiff. He also looked like a monster over there because he was physically imposing and looked like a killer and they didn't build him up on the mic, they built him up as a killer. That gimmick also worked when he started off in the Independents and even the NWA.
His character really didn't work well in the WWE because he didn't have a great personality, I've also read that the other wrestlers hated working with him because he'd basically beat the crap out of them, he had the Vader factor.
His character really didn't work well in the WWE because he didn't have a great personality, I've also read that the other wrestlers hated working with him because he'd basically beat the crap out of them, he had the Vader factor.
alko
Registered User
My old man used to bring me home Pro Wrestling Illustrated which at the time was pretty much a Kayfabe based magazine. They had articles about Sting and Hogan meeting in a hotel bar and exchanging unpleasantness. Or the Freebirds partying by riding elephants down broadway. It was the perfect fake news magazine. But it had rankings and everything. But at the back they'd have the months houseshow results from all the different federations. NWA/WCW UWF and WWE. There were like 100 event results. It kind of gave away that wrestling was pretty much fake because the results from the house shows were always the same.
Ozz
Registered User
In a way, BUT all the talk regarding Dr. Death and how he was handled prior/during the (would-be) WWF run is all about scripting. If you're talking about something else in here then disregard.
Loosie
The Eternal Optimist
Ozz
Registered User
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