Was Alain Vigneault the best coach the Canucks have ever had?

[Yossarian54]

I also cannot recall ever seeing a really specific breakdown of why Vigneault is bad. It's always vague notions like country club atmosphere, is too hard on the players, doesn't get the players fired up, hates young players, doesn't adjust, defends the loss, changes the lines too much, doesn't change the lines enough, Aaron Rome Aaron Rome Aaron Rome (remember when Burrows was the guy everyone said Vigneault was in love with and should be cut?), etc.

There's never any actual substance to the analysis. There's never any evidence that the posters even know how to explain his systems play, much less point out the flaws. The whole thing just reeks of a hindsight-based tantrum, and an inability to take a nuanced view of a situation.

We had literally 3 full threads going back to early 2012 which contained complete breakdowns and criticism's of AV's system and tactical failings. Tiranis, OrcaSmash, mossey3535 and I think Bleach Clean as well. While I agree that a large amount of criticism of him (and indeed anything) on here was nebulous, unprovable opinion, there was a significant amount of detailed criticism.

 

[CherryToke]

took you guys long enough to join the party.. was beginning to think maybe AV was actually a good coach or something... haha just kidding, I would never think something silly like that.

 

[Tim McCracken]

Can't argue with the results but I always had a soft spot for Pat Quinn despite him blowing the Bure era and Gretzky signing.

 

[Bourne Endeavor]

I also cannot recall ever seeing a really specific breakdown of why Vigneault is bad. It's always vague notions like country club atmosphere, is too hard on the players, doesn't get the players fired up, hates young players, doesn't adjust, defends the loss, changes the lines too much, doesn't change the lines enough, Aaron Rome Aaron Rome Aaron Rome (remember when Burrows was the guy everyone said Vigneault was in love with and should be cut?), etc.

There's never any actual substance to the analysis. There's never any evidence that the posters even know how to explain his systems play, much less point out the flaws. The whole thing just reeks of a hindsight-based tantrum, and an inability to take a nuanced view of a situation.

The lot of us had an entire thread dedicated to analysing AV's systems and breakdowns. I do not recall one instance of any of the supposed AV defenders attempting to refute the arguments rendered. Ironically, all they seemed to do was repeat the same rhetoric after "dumbing down" any criticism, not at all dissimilar to what you have just done now.

Feel free to offer your analysis on why AV was a good coach, or why our analysis was so off base. Otherwise, your complaints lack any merit.

 

[Defeatist*]

Nope. Pat Quinn was the best coach we ever had!

 

[Wetcoaster]

Nope. Pat Quinn was the best coach we ever had!

Because he stripped Trevor Linden of the "C" and gave it to Mark Messier or because he gave Messier Number 11 that had been retired after the death of Wayne Maki?

 

[Wetcoaster]

Pierre LeBrun had this to say in his pre-season rankings:

Best coaching hire of the offseason in the entire league: Alain Vigneault. Given time, AV will get it right there.​

http://espn.go.com/nhl/powerrankings/_/season/2014/week/0

A backhanded diss of Tortorella?

He has the Rangers at Number 8 and the Canucks at Number 12.

 

[MrShift4]

Because he stripped Trevor Linden of the "C" and gave it to Mark Messier or because he gave Messier Number 11 that had been retired after the death of Wayne Maki?

He wasn't the coach then

 

[Soth]

I specifically invited pro-AV posters to argue with me last season and not one of you stood up.

I think the majority of the pro-av guys got tired of the argument after the 1000th bone-headed criticism. After that, i generally skimmed and skipped all av criticism. I skim/skip most of the ridiculous Gillis criticism too these days.

I don't think AV was beyond reproach, but he did a lot more things right than wrong imo.

 

[Wolfhard]

Because he stripped Trevor Linden of the "C" and gave it to Mark Messier or because he gave Messier Number 11 that had been retired after the death of Wayne Maki?

He didn't "strip" a Linden of the C. Linden stepped down as Captain to end the controversy of who should be Captain. Messier wouldn't publicly stand up and acknowledge that it was Linden's team, and it was creating such a distraction that Linden did what he had to do to end it.
Giving up the C was a prime example of what a great leader he was, and how much the team meant to him.

Also a prime example of Messier's selfishness, and how his own ego came before his team/teammates.

 

[Wolfhard]

Because he stripped Trevor Linden of the "C" and gave it to Mark Messier or because he gave Messier Number 11 that had been retired after the death of Wayne Maki?

He didn't "strip" a Linden of the C. Linden stepped down as Captain to end the controversy of who should be Captain. Messier wouldn't publicly stand up and acknowledge that it was Linden's team, and it was creating such a distraction that Linden did what he had to do to end it.
Giving up the C was a prime example of what a great leader he was, and how much the team meant to him.

Also a prime example of Messier's selfishness, and how his own ego came before his team/teammates.

 

[TheyHave2Goaltenders]

I say YES, AV was the best Canucks coach of all-time. He had the best record and the team was very dominant in the league throughout his reign. No contest IMO.

 

[TheyHave2Goaltenders]

Because he stripped Trevor Linden of the "C" and gave it to Mark Messier or because he gave Messier Number 11 that had been retired after the death of Wayne Maki?

Mike Keenan was the coach that year.

 

[MrShift4]

Mike Keenan was the coach that year.

Not when those items Wet listed happened

 

[MikeK]

One of, but not the best... because I'm not sure who the best really is. They all had different teams and played in different eras. I think AV had the luxury of having the best goalie this franchise has ever had so that certainly attributed to his wins. Plus the Twins grew into all-world hockey players. Really hard to say for sure if AV was the best coach. I think AV had the best personnel overall to work with and because of this he was able to become the most successful.

 

[Spamhuis]

Pierre LeBrun had this to say in his pre-season rankings:

Best coaching hire of the offseason in the entire league: Alain Vigneault. Given time, AV will get it right there.​

http://espn.go.com/nhl/powerrankings/_/season/2014/week/0

A backhanded diss of Tortorella?

He has the Rangers at Number 8 and the Canucks at Number 12.

The media loves AV. I figure he will make the playoffs in NY. Not sure he will get the best out of the roster there. Definitely will get out coached in the playoffs like he always does. The point I lost respect for AV was game 5 in San Jose in 2011. The Canucks were taking it to the sharks playing their style of game. Game got rough; so instead of continuing to play what was successful AV dressed face punchers and tried to have a "tough" game. Mclellan took his face punchers out of the lineup and won the game. AV fell for the sucker. I wonder what other coaches feel about him. He just seems so easy to our manoeuvre. His systems are good though.

 

[Wolfhard]

Coaching and strategies have changed so much over the years that you can't really compare coaches of different generations. I think Quinn was a better coach in his generation than AV is in this one by far. I think Neilson was better too.

However if you put them all behind a bench now (if possible), AV would be the victor.


I think AV could be the best assistant coach in the league. He's brilliant at sitting down and coming up with idea's, but not that great at actually deciding when and how to use them. And when it needs to change.
He definitely has some unique gifts and abilities, but comes up short with using them effectively.
If he was working with, or under, a guy who's adept at reading and reacting to the changes in games and series', it would make for almost perfect coaching.
His hands-off approach seems to apply to game situations as well as relationships with the players. He's brilliant, but just....disconnected.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

okay guys. this is when AV turns lundqvist into 7unqvist right?

right?

 

[Wetcoaster]

Tim Wharnsby ‏@WharnsbyCBC
#NYR's Alain Vigneault joins Claude Julien & Darryl Sutter as only 3 coaches to make 2 conference finals in last 4 postseasons ..

 

[mossey3535]

I don't think any of us who were constructively criticizing AV said he was a bad coach. Of course he did a lot of good things. But we were as a fanbase expecting him to help lead us to a Stanley Cup, and he had a number of glaring technical and motivational shortcomings that made him an utter failure at attaining that goal.

Regular season, he was great. Nobody can argue that.

Also, some of his personnel decisions have lingered to this day and have helped contribute to some of the personnel issues we have currently. He has to own that too.

 

[Win One Before I Die]

I think New York is playing on a high with the St Louis situation.

Oh and Lundqvist is the best goalie in the NHL again.

Lets be honest though, beating Pittsburgh and Phili isn't that amazing. If they beat Boston or Montreal I will be impressed.

 

[Raincouver]

Vigneault was great when he had something to work with.

When he was given products of Mike Gillis' David Boothian incompetence, and was asked to make chicken salad out of chicken $#@%, he did the best that he could.


Now he's in the ECF. Mike Gillis is fired. Fitting.

 

[Wetcoaster]

Firing AV after a lockout shortened season made zero sense.

It was a knee jerk reaction from the ownership jerk,

 

[Sergei Shirokov]

His time here was up, he's a good coach, glad to see him having success, but if he was still around I don't think we would be in any different a situation than we are now.

 

[ProstheticConscience]

Ooooooo boy oh boy. More rehashing a dead issue.