Wait. Is that infographic about Braden Holtby really true?

McPaul*

Guest
if Ryan Miller gets 43 wins this season, not unheard of as he's currently at 18, he would vault into 7th all time for Vancouver wins. If he plays out his contract in Vancouver and records similar win #s in years 2 and 3, that would put him 3rd overall in Vancouver wins.

I wonder how many other goalies would be in the top 3 in wins for two different teams by then?

The more you know...!

Damn we've had some crappy goalies...
 

Telos

In Gavrikov We Must Trust
Aug 16, 2008
32,546
7,188
Reno, NV
Franchise or career goalies aren't very common. Most teams don't have very many in their history. Not that they are a very good example, but for being an original expansion team, LA has a subpar goaltender history and Quick is already claiming just about every goaltending record they have. Finding that guy that is going to play 50-60 games a year for you for 10+ seasons isn't very common...
 

txpd

Registered User
Jan 25, 2003
69,649
14,131
New Bern, NC
To be fair the caps had some seriously crappy years since they joined the league.

actually, while they are hideous from 74 to 82, from 83(Langway trade) they have only missed the playoffs 4 or 5 times. there are a few teams better than that but only a handful.
 

BPD

Registered User
Jul 7, 2009
3,453
612
New York City
I don't think goalies stuck around as long back then as they have in the last 20 years.

They physically couldn't.

Think about all the changes in goaltender protection technology over the last 50 years - how much pads have changed, protectors, waffles, gloves, masks, etc.

It wasn't until the early 80s that goalies really had the physical tools to last for as long as they do now. It's why players like Sawchuk and Esposito are so revered - they just seemed to be made of steel.
 

BPD

Registered User
Jul 7, 2009
3,453
612
New York City
Franchise or career goalies aren't very common. Most teams don't have very many in their history. Not that they are a very good example, but for being an original expansion team, LA has a subpar goaltender history and Quick is already claiming just about every goaltending record they have. Finding that guy that is going to play 50-60 games a year for you for 10+ seasons isn't very common...

Henrik is surprisingly the same here. Our history is what, twice as long as yours? We've got the same thing going on.
 

zeropotentate

Registered User
Dec 4, 2012
493
0
Ontario
Surprising stat, Mathieu Garon is on the top 10 wins for 4 franchises: Columbus, Edmonton, Los Angeles, and Tampa Bay. Even McElhinney makes appearances on two teams: Anaheim and Columbus.

Those sound somewhat impressive from afar, but looking at NHL teams closer it is easier to see why something like that happens. A lot of teams who don't have a steady goalie for 10+ years usually don't have a lot of goalies with a ton of wins. Most teams have goalies with less than 100 wins on their top 10 of all time
 

Doctyl

Play-ins Manager
Jan 25, 2011
23,258
7,024
Bofflol
Henrik is surprisingly the same here. Our history is what, twice as long as yours? We've got the same thing going on.

Not really the same. 50 shutouts and 300 wins were needed to pass the Rangers goalies. Quick only needs 172 wins to take #1 and 33 shutouts to take that one.
 

tarheelhockey

Offside Review Specialist
Feb 12, 2010
84,977
137,333
Bojangles Parking Lot
They physically couldn't.

Think about all the changes in goaltender protection technology over the last 50 years - how much pads have changed, protectors, waffles, gloves, masks, etc.

It wasn't until the early 80s that goalies really had the physical tools to last for as long as they do now. It's why players like Sawchuk and Esposito are so revered - they just seemed to be made of steel.

I'm not sure that's entirely accurate. The top-20 in career goalie GP includes Sawchuk (1950), Hall (1952), Esposito (1968), Worsley (1953), Plante (1953), Lumley (1944), Vachon (1967), and Meloche (1971). That's 8 out of the 20 biggest-career goalies who started their careers between 1950 and 1971.

I think the real explanation is simply that the league expanded and allowed goalies on the downside of their careers to continue in the NHL. If you take a random season, 1951, and look at the starting goalies in the league at the time:

Jack Gelineau (BOS) - Age 26
Harry Lumley (CHI) - Age 24
Terry Sawchuk (DET) - Age 21
Gerry McNeil (MTL) - Age 24
Chuck Rayner (NYR) - Age 30
Al Rollins (TOR) - Age 24
Turk Broda (TOR) - Age 36

That's a pretty ordinary spread of ages for the Original Six era, basically a bunch of guys in their physical primes plus the veteran Rayner and the physical fluke Broda. Now consider that the following season Gelineau lost his spot to "Sugar" Jim Henry and spent the next 4 seasons in the minors; Rayner managed one more season as starter before he was bumped to a backup role and then to the minors by a young Gump Worsley; McNeil was demoted 3 years later when Jacques Plante took his job; and of course Broda retired because it was time.

Then look a few years later at 1955:

John Henderson (BOS) - Age 21
Jim Henry (BOS) - Age 34
Al Rollins (CHI) - Age 28
Terry Sawchuk (DET) - Age 25
Jacques Plante (MTL) - Age 26
Gump Worsley (NYR) - Age 25
Harry Lumley (TOR) - Age 28

Basically the same age range, right? Nothing much has changed in terms of entry to the NHL, as guys in their early-mid 20s dominate the starting positions and older guys are lucky to get a platoon job.

So what's different with this group? Henry, of course, retired and Henderson wasn't an NHL quality goalie so he was back in the minors quickly. Rollins' career was cut short when he was exiled to the minors after a contract dispute (another aspect that would change dramatically over time). Lumley played one more season as starter and then a few years as a backup before retiring at a then-ordinary 33. So the older guys and the sub-NHL'ers were weeded out quickly.

But Sawchuk, Plante and Worsley were in the "sweet spot" with regard to career timing. Sawchuk's last season as a full-time starter was at age 31, which was normal... then he played a few more years as a platooner and then a backup, which was also normal... then in 1968 the league expanded and he signed with the Kings, and then the Wings, and then the Rangers to finish his career. Meanwhile Plante made it to an impressive age 35 as a starter, and retired... only to come back in 1969 in a platoon role with the Blues for 2 years, then 2 1/2 more years in Toronto, then a cameo in Boston, and even a stint in the WHA. He retired for good at age 46. Worsley's career looked finished at age 33, though he held on to take a one-off starting job in Montreal a couple of years later, which eventually led to him playing five more years in Minnesota after expansion. In all three of those cases, the goalies ended up with careers which were unthinkably long by the previous generation's standards -- not only because they were great goalies, but also because the league doubled in size just as they would have been retiring.

Look at the other guys on the list... Rogie Vachon started in the O6 and by the time he was a veteran there were 20 NHL teams and 14 WHA teams offering jobs. When he stopped being useful to Montreal, he took a job with a terrible LA team instead. After he broke into the NHL, he never set foot in the minors again. Gilles Meloche, same story. He team-hopped but never left the NHL.

So by the time you get to the 80s, being sent to the minors wasn't even a consideration for a decent goalie. It was just assumed that if he was NHL-quality to begin with, a goalie could always find a job with a basement team and extend his career by a few more years.
By the turn of the century you had almost 100 goalies cycling through the league every year, so losing a roster spot was out of the question for even a Salo or Shields level goalie. That's why you have stuff like Sean Burke and Nikolai Khabibulin being near the top of the all time GP list, and close to leading some franchises.

Sorry, didn't mean to write so much about this :laugh: The more I looked into it, the more the granular details started to seem pertinent.
 

deckercky

Registered User
Oct 27, 2010
9,379
2,452
For evidence of how much an average franchise can quickly have a great goaltender take over the #1 spot, look at Luongo who is #1 on both Vancouver and Florida.
 

AvsGuy

Hired the wrong DJ again
Sep 13, 2002
10,594
2,738
Regina, SK
I knew Lalime would be #1. Didn't realize Anderson already would be #2. But then I guess Gerber never really won all that many for us :laugh:

Lalime 146
Anderson 89
Tugnutt 72
Emergy 71
Rhodes 65

I'm surprised that's all Tugnutt won, he was the balls there for a few seasons. I remember even as a teenager being surprised when they dumped him off for Tom Barrasso's sarcophagus.
 

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