Voting : Vezina or All Star Teams?

[Weztex]

I wanted to post this in the ''Sawchuk'' thread but the discussion would have be hijacked.

Since the coming of the voted Vezina trophy in 1982, there have been many years where the two goaltenders voted on all star teams differ from the two Vezina finalists. The most glaring example is the Theodore/Roy one in 2002. The last episode is in 2004 when Kiprusoff was the Vezina runner-up while Luongo was voted to the 2nd all-star team. My question is :

Which of the Vezina votes or all-star teams votes worth the most.

Everybody knows that between 1931 and 1981 the all-star selection are the best way to look at who are the best goalies. But from 1982 on, is the Vezina more representative or are the all-star teams still the best thing to look at?

BTW : Are the complete all-star votes available before 1981?. I'm looking for a list of the 3rd best goalie for those years. I know they do not appear in the sticky thread but I still take a chance.

Thanks

Click to read more...

 

[pitseleh]

Aren't they voted on by different people? I'm pretty sure the Vezina is the GM's while the All-Star teams are the sportswriters.

I guess it depends on whose opinion you value you more.

 

[Ogopogo*]

I wanted to post this in the ''Sawchuk'' thread but the discussion would have be hijacked.

Since the coming of the voted Vezina trophy in 1982, there have been many years where the two goaltenders voted on all star teams differ from the two Vezina finalists. The most glaring example is the Theodore/Roy one in 2002. The last episode is in 2004 when Kiprusoff was the Vezina runner-up while Luongo was voted to the 2nd all-star team. My question is :

Which of the Vezina votes or all-star teams votes worth the most.

Everybody knows that between 1931 and 1981 the all-star selection are the best way to look at who are the best goalies. But from 1982 on, is the Vezina more representative or are the all-star teams still the best thing to look at?

BTW : Are the complete all-star votes available before 1981?. I'm looking for a list of the 3rd best goalie for those years. I know they do not appear in the sticky thread but I still take a chance.

Thanks

Myself, I prefer the Vezina balloting today. Prior to 1982 the all stars are, of course, the best.

Unfortunately, there are no published records of complete all star votes. The stickied thread above has a lot of them but, the complete historical record is not available. I have looked - including trying to contact the keeper of the stats at the NHL in NY but, he never returned my emails or phone calls. Perhaps I will start a letter writing campaign.

If you find that data, please let me know.

 

[Weztex]

Well..

On one side, sportswriters are a lot more than the GM's. On the other, bias is an omnipresent concept among sportswriters.

Wow, I'm a little bit lost. The more I look the more I see dissimilarities between the two:

1988, Hrudey voted 3rd for vezina, 8th for all star teams.
1989, McLean voted 3rd for vezina, 6th for all star teams.

Ogo, why do you see the Vezina as the most valuable?

 

[pitseleh]

I guess if you are using the data for the purpose of comparison, it'd probably be better to use the All-Star team data, as it would be consistent over the past 75 or so years.

The other thing to consider would be the sample size bias. In the case of the Vezina, one or two first place votes would potentially move a player into the top few goaltenders in the league, while the All-Star votes are less impacted by small inconsistencies in the voting.

 

[Ogopogo*]

Well..

On one side, sportswriters are a lot more than the GM's. On the other, bias is an omnipresent concept among sportswriters.

Wow, I'm a little bit lost. The more I look the more I see dissimilarities between the two:

1988, Hrudey voted 3rd for vezina, 8th for all star teams.
1989, McLean voted 3rd for vezina, 6th for all star teams.

Ogo, why do you see the Vezina as the most valuable?

I used the Vezina simply because it was a trophy used to signify the league's best goaltender and that is was the league GMs voting. But, now that it has been brought up, it might make sense to combine the voting of the two awards to reach a true consensus

 

[Weztex]

I used the Vezina simply because it was a trophy used to signify the league's best goaltender and that is was the league GMs voting. But, now that it has been brought up, it might make sense to combine the voting of the two awards to reach a true consensus

That would probably be the best thing to do but unfortunately the lack of data doesn't help.

Pnep, if you stumble across this thread, does your database can list the top 3 goalies per year?