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Voting Record - VanIslander, Mike Farkas, tony d

quoipourquoi

quoipourquoi

Goaltender
Jan 26, 2009
10,123
4,126
Hockeytown, MI
VoterRankPlayerPoints 1 2
VanIslander1Wayne Gretzky1201Gordie Howe1Bobby Hull
VanIslander2Bobby Orr1192Wayne Gretzky2Ray Bourque
VanIslander3Gordie Howe1183Mario Lemieux3Dominik Hasek
VanIslander4Mario Lemieux1174Bobby Orr4Patrick Roy
VanIslander5Bobby Hull1165Bobby Hull5Maurice Richard
VanIslander6Maurice Richard1156Ray Bourque6Sidney Crosby
VanIslander7Cyclone Taylor1147Maurice Richard7Eddie Shore
VanIslander8Dominik Hasek1138Doug Harvey8Jean Beliveau
VanIslander9Eddie Shore1129Jean Beliveau9Doug Harvey
VanIslander10Sidney Crosby11110Patrick Roy10Howie Morenz
VanIslander11Doug Harvey110 3 4
VanIslander12Phil Esposito1091Ray Bourque1Phil Esposito
VanIslander13Jaromir Jagr1082Dominik Hasek2Frank Nighbor
VanIslander14Jean Beliveau1073Jaromir Jagr3Red Kelly
VanIslander15Patrick Roy1064Sidney Crosby4Jaromir Jagr
VanIslander16Ray Bourque1055Alex Ovechkin5Mark Messier
VanIslander17Guy Lafleur1046Eddie Shore6Denis Potvin
VanIslander18Denis Potvin1037Denis Potvin7Alex Ovechkin
VanIslander19Howie Morenz1028Nicklas Lidstrom8Nicklas Lidstrom
VanIslander20Alex Ovechkin1019Mark Messier9Guy Lafleur
VanIslander21Frank Nighbor10010Stan Mikita10Stan Mikita
VanIslander22Mark Messier99 5 6
VanIslander23Red Kelly981Phil Esposito1Phil Esposito
VanIslander24Viacheslav Fetisov972Frank Nighbor2Glenn Hall
VanIslander25Stan Mikita963Viacheslav Fetisov3Viacheslav Fetisov
VanIslander26Earl Seibert954Alex Ovechkin4Sergei Makarov
VanIslander27Newsy Lalonde945Mark Messier5Cyclone Taylor
VanIslander28Bernie Geoffrion936Glenn Hall6Bryan Trottier
VanIslander29Glenn Hall927Guy Lafleur7Mike Bossy
VanIslander30Marcel Dionne918Martin Brodeur8Terry Sawchuk
VanIslander31Jacques Plante909Stan Mikita9Joe Sakic
VanIslander32Nicklas Lidstrom8910Bobby Clarke10Martin Brodeur
VanIslander33Terry Sawchuk88 7 8
VanIslander34Ted Lindsay871Cyclone Taylor1Ted Lindsay
VanIslander35Bobby Clarke862Newsy Lalonde2Newsy Lalonde
VanIslander36Sergei Makarov853Ted Lindsay3Terry Sawchuk
VanIslander37Bryan Trottier844Bryan Trottier4Brad Park
VanIslander38Martin Brodeur835Joe Sakic5Steve Yzerman
VanIslander39Bill Cook826Steve Yzerman6Mike Bossy
VanIslander40Vladislav Tretiak817Martin Brodeur7Larry Robinson
VanIslander41Larry Robinson808Terry Sawchuk8Ken Dryden
VanIslander42Paul Coffey799Bill Cook9Chris Chelios
VanIslander43Valeri Kharlamov7810Larry Robinson10Paul Coffey
VanIslander44Ken Dryden77 9 10
VanIslander45Joe Sakic761Valeri Kharlamov1Brad Park
VanIslander46Chris Chelios752Brad Park2Pierre Pilote
VanIslander47Brad Park743King Clancy3Vladislav Tretiak
VanIslander48Mike Bossy734Chris Chelios4Peter Forsberg
VanIslander49Pierre Pilote725Pierre Pilote5Bernie Geoffrion
VanIslander50Steve Yzerman716Frank Boucher6Charlie Conacher
VanIslander51Syl Apps707Charlie Conacher7Paul Coffey
VanIslander52Peter Forsberg698Vladislav Tretiak8Milt Schmidt
VanIslander53Frank Brimsek689Ken Dryden9Ken Dryden
VanIslander54King Clancy6710Paul Coffey10Henri Richard
VanIslander55Evgeni Malkin66 11 12
VanIslander56Bill Cowley651Pierre Pilote1Bernie Geoffrion
VanIslander57Frank Boucher642Vladislav Tretiak2Marcel Dionne
VanIslander58Eric Lindros633Earl Seibert3Andy Bathgate
VanIslander59Andy Bathgate624Evgeni Malkin4Earl Seibert
VanIslander60Charlie Conacher615Marcel Dionne5Sprague Cleghorn
VanIslander61Charlie Gardiner606Peter Forsberg6Tim Horton
VanIslander62Clint Benedict597Bernie Geoffrion7Frank Brimsek
VanIslander63Eddie Gerard588Frank Brimsek8Ted Kennedy
VanIslander64Milt Schmidt579Charlie Conacher9Charlie Conacher
VanIslander65Sprague Cleghorn5610Milt Schmidt10Chris Pronger
VanIslander66Alexander Maltsev55 13 14
VanIslander67Hod Stuart541Marcel Dionne1Joe Malone
VanIslander68Nels Stewart532Earl Seibert2Dit Clapper
VanIslander69Bill Gadsby523Andy Bathgate3Al MacInnis
VanIslander70Frank Mahovlich514Bernie Geoffrion4Cy Denneny
VanIslander71Brian Leetch505Tim Horton5Clint Benedict
VanIslander72Russell Bowie496Scott Stevens6Tim Horton
VanIslander73Tim Horton487Al MacInnis7Teemu Selanne
VanIslander74Elmer Lach478Georges Vezina8Georges Vezina
VanIslander75Dit Clapper469Teemu Selanne9Dickie Moore
VanIslander76Max Bentley4510Frank Mahovlich10Bill Durnan
VanIslander77Jarome Iginla44 15 16
VanIslander78Al MacInnis431Dit Clapper1Jari Kurri
VanIslander79Ted Kennedy422Joe Malone2Boris Mikhailov
VanIslander80Turk Broda413Anatoli Firsov3Cy Denneny
VanIslander81Dave Keon404Jari Kurri4Max Bentley
VanIslander82Jari Kurri395Cy Denneny5Aurele Joliat
VanIslander83Joe Malone386Frank Mahovlich6Charlie Gardiner
VanIslander84Syd Howe377Brett Hull7Turk Broda
VanIslander85Scott Stevens368Clint Benedict8Brett Hull
VanIslander86Georges Vezina359Turk Broda9Bill Durnan
VanIslander87Tommy Phillips3410Bill Durnan10Sergei Fedorov
VanIslander88Aurele Joliat33 17 18
VanIslander89Norm Ullman321Bill Gadsby1Bill Gadsby
VanIslander90Cy Denneny312Elmer Lach2Boris Mikhailov
VanIslander91Scott Niedermayer303Boris Mikhailov3Bill Cowley
VanIslander92Chris Pronger294Nels Stewart4Nels Stewart
VanIslander93Bill Durnan285Borje Salming5Brian Leetch
VanIslander94Duncan Keith276Brian Leetch6Duncan Keith
VanIslander95Teemu Selanne267Turk Broda7Zdeno Chara
VanIslander96Borje Salming258Sergei Fedorov8Eric Lindros
VanIslander97Ching Johnson249Brett Hull9Martin St. Louis
VanIslander98Sid Abel2310Bill Durnan10Sergei Fedorov
VanIslander99Zdeno Chara22
VanIslander100Bill Quackenbush21
VanIslander101Erik Karlsson20
VanIslander102Busher Jackson19
VanIslander103Jiri Holecek18
VanIslander104Jan Suchy17
VanIslander105Boris Mikhailov16
VanIslander106Martin St. Louis15
VanIslander107Doug Bentley14
VanIslander108Henri Richard13
VanIslander109Vladimir Martinec12
VanIslander110Luc Robitaille11
VanIslander111Tiny Thompson10
VanIslander112Jack Stewart9
VanIslander113Ed Belfour8
VanIslander114Joe Thornton7
VanIslander115Dickie Moore6
VanIslander116Babe Siebert5
VanIslander117Anatoli Firsov4
VanIslander118Doug Gilmour3
VanIslander119Toe Blake2
VanIslander120Marcel Pronovost1
VoterRankPlayerPoints 1 2
Mike Farkas1Wayne Gretzky1201Wayne Gretzky1Jean Beliveau
Mike Farkas2Bobby Orr1192Bobby Orr2Bobby Hull
Mike Farkas3Gordie Howe1183Gordie Howe3Doug Harvey
Mike Farkas4Mario Lemieux1174Mario Lemieux4Sidney Crosby
Mike Farkas5Jean Beliveau1165Jean Beliveau5Howie Morenz
Mike Farkas6Bobby Hull1156Bobby Hull6Patrick Roy
Mike Farkas7Doug Harvey1147Doug Harvey7Ray Bourque
Mike Farkas8Ray Bourque1138Ray Bourque8Dominik Hasek
Mike Farkas9Nicklas Lidstrom1129Patrick Roy9Maurice Richard
Mike Farkas10Red Kelly11110Maurice Richard10Eddie Shore
Mike Farkas11Sidney Crosby110 3 4
Mike Farkas12Viacheslav Fetisov1091Sidney Crosby1Nicklas Lidstrom
Mike Farkas13Denis Potvin1082Nicklas Lidstrom2Denis Potvin
Mike Farkas14Stan Mikita1073Ray Bourque3Red Kelly
Mike Farkas15Jaromir Jagr1064Howie Morenz4Jaromir Jagr
Mike Farkas16Howie Morenz1055Jaromir Jagr5Frank Nighbor
Mike Farkas17Patrick Roy1046Dominik Hasek6Mark Messier
Mike Farkas18Mark Messier1037Denis Potvin7Jacques Plante
Mike Farkas19Martin Brodeur1028Eddie Shore8Stan Mikita
Mike Farkas20Maurice Richard1019Stan Mikita9Alex Ovechkin
Mike Farkas21Frank Nighbor10010Jacques Plante10Guy Lafleur
Mike Farkas22Larry Robinson99 5 6
Mike Farkas23Chris Chelios981Viacheslav Fetisov1Viacheslav Fetisov
Mike Farkas24Brad Park972Stan Mikita2Martin Brodeur
Mike Farkas25Eddie Shore963Martin Brodeur3Joe Sakic
Mike Farkas26Dominik Hasek954Mark Messier4Bobby Clarke
Mike Farkas27Alex Ovechkin945Bobby Clarke5Sergei Makarov
Mike Farkas28Bobby Clarke936Frank Nighbor6Bryan Trottier
Mike Farkas29Joe Sakic927Alex Ovechkin7Mike Bossy
Mike Farkas30Jacques Plante918Glenn Hall8Phil Esposito
Mike Farkas31Guy Lafleur909Guy Lafleur9Glenn Hall
Mike Farkas32Pierre Pilote8910Phil Esposito10Cyclone Taylor
Mike Farkas33Sergei Makarov88 7 8
Mike Farkas34Bill Cook871Martin Brodeur1Larry Robinson
Mike Farkas35Steve Yzerman862Joe Sakic2Mike Bossy
Mike Farkas36Bryan Trottier853Larry Robinson3Steve Yzerman
Mike Farkas37Mike Bossy844Steve Yzerman4Chris Chelios
Mike Farkas38Phil Esposito835Bryan Trottier5Brad Park
Mike Farkas39Henri Richard826Mike Bossy6Ted Lindsay
Mike Farkas40Al MacInnis817Bill Cook7Newsy Lalonde
Mike Farkas41Newsy Lalonde808Newsy Lalonde8Paul Coffey
Mike Farkas42Glenn Hall799Cyclone Taylor9Terry Sawchuk
Mike Farkas43Chris Pronger7810Terry Sawchuk10Ken Dryden
Mike Farkas44Evgeni Malkin77 9 10
Mike Farkas45Earl Seibert761Chris Chelios1Henri Richard
Mike Farkas46Scott Stevens752Brad Park2Brad Park
Mike Farkas47Peter Forsberg743Henri Richard3Pierre Pilote
Mike Farkas48Valeri Kharlamov734Frank Boucher4Paul Coffey
Mike Farkas49Frank Boucher725Pierre Pilote5Peter Forsberg
Mike Farkas50Paul Coffey716Paul Coffey6Syl Apps
Mike Farkas51Terry Sawchuk707Valeri Kharlamov7Ken Dryden
Mike Farkas52Cyclone Taylor698Syl Apps8Vladislav Tretiak
Mike Farkas53Ken Dryden689Ken Dryden9Milt Schmidt
Mike Farkas54Ted Lindsay6710Vladislav Tretiak10Bernie Geoffrion
Mike Farkas55Eddie Gerard66 11 12
Mike Farkas56Marcel Dionne651Pierre Pilote1Chris Pronger
Mike Farkas57Milt Schmidt642Peter Forsberg2Earl Seibert
Mike Farkas58Bernie Geoffrion633Evgeni Malkin3Frank Brimsek
Mike Farkas59Sprague Cleghorn624Earl Seibert4Frank Mahovlich
Mike Farkas60Tim Horton615Milt Schmidt5Tim Horton
Mike Farkas61Frank Mahovlich606Vladislav Tretiak6Sprague Cleghorn
Mike Farkas62Vladislav Tretiak597Frank Brimsek7Andy Bathgate
Mike Farkas63Jari Kurri588Bernie Geoffrion8Bernie Geoffrion
Mike Farkas64Borje Salming579Marcel Dionne9Marcel Dionne
Mike Farkas65Anatoli Firsov5610Charlie Conacher10Ted Kennedy
Mike Farkas66Dickie Moore55 13 14
Mike Farkas67Frank Brimsek541Scott Stevens1Frank Mahovlich
Mike Farkas68Teemu Selanne532Frank Mahovlich2Dickie Moore
Mike Farkas69Mark Howe523Al MacInnis3Al MacInnis
Mike Farkas70Aurele Joliat514Tim Horton4Tim Horton
Mike Farkas71Charlie Gardiner505Earl Seibert5Teemu Selanne
Mike Farkas72Cy Denneny496Andy Bathgate6Cy Denneny
Mike Farkas73Syl Apps487Bernie Geoffrion7Dit Clapper
Mike Farkas74Andy Bathgate478Teemu Selanne8Georges Vezina
Mike Farkas75Brian Leetch469Marcel Dionne9Joe Malone
Mike Farkas76Georges Vezina4510Georges Vezina10Clint Benedict
Mike Farkas77Joe Malone44 16
Mike Farkas78Brett Hull43 1Jari Kurri
Mike Farkas79Ching Johnson42 2Aurele Joliat
Mike Farkas80Ted Kennedy41 3Max Bentley
Mike Farkas81Serge Savard40 4Charlie Gardiner
Mike Farkas82Dit Clapper39 5Sergei Fedorov
Mike Farkas83King Clancy38 6Brett Hull
Mike Farkas84Dave Keon37 7Cy Denneny
Mike Farkas85Turk Broda36 8Boris Mikhailov
Mike Farkas86Bill Gadsby35 9Turk Broda
Mike Farkas87Adam Oates34 10Bill Durnan
Mike Farkas88Sid Abel33 18
Mike Farkas89Joe Thornton32 1Ed Belfour
Mike Farkas90Martin St. Louis31 2Bill Gadsby
Mike Farkas91Charlie Conacher30 3Duncan Keith
Mike Farkas92Toe Blake29 4Martin St. Louis
Mike Farkas93Roy Worters28 5Eric Lindros
Mike Farkas94Elmer Lach27 6Bill Cowley
Mike Farkas95Vladimir Martinec26 7Sergei Fedorov
Mike Farkas96Sergei Fedorov25 8Brian Leetch
Mike Farkas97Alex Delvecchio24 9Nels Stewart
Mike Farkas98Paul Kariya23 10Boris Mikhailov
Mike Farkas99Jacques Lemaire22 19 20
Mike Farkas100Ed Belfour211Mark Howe1Mark Howe
Mike Farkas101Eric Lindros202Bill Gadsby2Eddie Gerard
Mike Farkas102Pavel Bure193Eddie Gerard3Serge Savard
Mike Farkas103Doug Gilmour184Duncan Keith4Eric Lindros
Mike Farkas104Guy Lapointe175Serge Savard5Erik Karlsson
Mike Farkas105Drew Doughty166Eric Lindros6Dave Keon
Mike Farkas106Johnny Bower157Joe Thornton7Brian Leetch
Mike Farkas107Ron Francis148Patrick Kane8Toe Blake
Mike Farkas108JC Tremblay139Erik Karlsson9Martin St. Louis
Mike Farkas109Marian Hossa1210Dave Keon10Sid Abel
Mike Farkas110Erik Karlsson11 21
Mike Farkas111Frantisek Pospisil101Eddie Gerard
Mike Farkas112Tommy Phillips92Serge Savard
Mike Farkas113Syd Howe83Erik Karlsson
Mike Farkas114Frank Foyston74Sid Abel
Mike Farkas115Pavel Datsyuk65Toe Blake
Mike Farkas116Duncan Keith56Vladimir Martinec
Mike Farkas117Norm Ullman47Alexander Maltsev
Mike Farkas118Jarome Iginla38Norm Ullman
Mike Farkas119Patrice Bergeron29Pavel Bure
Mike Farkas120George Armstrong110Jarome Iginla
VoterRankPlayerPoints 1 2
tony d1Wayne Gretzky1201Wayne Gretzky1Jean Beliveau
tony d2Bobby Orr1192Bobby Orr2Bobby Hull
tony d3Mario Lemieux1183Mario Lemieux3Maurice Richard
tony d4Gordie Howe1174Gordie Howe4Doug Harvey
tony d5Jean Beliveau1165Jean Beliveau5Howie Morenz
tony d6Bobby Hull1156Bobby Hull6Ray Bourque
tony d7Maurice Richard1147Maurice Richard7Eddie Shore
tony d8Doug Harvey1138Doug Harvey8Sidney Crosby
tony d9Stan Mikita1129Ray Bourque9Patrick Roy
tony d10Howie Morenz11110Patrick Roy10Dominik Hasek
tony d11Ray Bourque110 3 4
tony d12Nicklas Lidstrom1091Stan Mikita1Stan Mikita
tony d13Eddie Shore1082Howie Morenz2Jaromir Jagr
tony d14Jaromir Jagr1073Ray Bourque3Nicklas Lidstrom
tony d15Sidney Crosby1064Jaromir Jagr4Denis Potvin
tony d16Denis Potvin1055Eddie Shore5Phil Esposito
tony d17Guy Lafleur1046Sidney Crosby6Alex Ovechkin
tony d18Red Kelly1037Dominik Hasek7Mark Messier
tony d19Mark Messier1028Denis Potvin8Guy Lafleur
tony d20Patrick Roy1019Alex Ovechkin9Red Kelly
tony d21Alex Ovechkin10010Mark Messier10Frank Nighbor
tony d22Bobby Clarke99 5 6
tony d23Phil Esposito981Stan Mikita1Bobby Clarke
tony d24Ted Lindsay972Guy Lafleur2Viacheslav Fetisov
tony d25Frank Nighbor963Alex Ovechkin3Phil Esposito
tony d26Dominik Hasek954Mark Messier4Terry Sawchuk
tony d27Mike Bossy945Bobby Clarke5Martin Brodeur
tony d28Viacheslav Fetisov936Viacheslav Fetisov6Bryan Trottier
tony d29Larry Robinson927Phil Esposito7Mike Bossy
tony d30Joe Sakic918Terry Sawchuk8Cyclone Taylor
tony d31Jacques Plante909Frank Nighbor9Joe Sakic
tony d32Cyclone Taylor8910Martin Brodeur10Sergei Makarov
tony d33Steve Yzerman88 7 8
tony d34Bryan Trottier871Bryan Trottier1Larry Robinson
tony d35Sergei Makarov862Larry Robinson2Mike Bossy
tony d36Newsy Lalonde853Mike Bossy3Steve Yzerman
tony d37Valeri Kharlamov844Ted Lindsay4Ted Lindsay
tony d38Brad Park835Steve Yzerman5Brad Park
tony d39Milt Schmidt826Joe Sakic6Terry Sawchuk
tony d40Terry Sawchuk817Terry Sawchuk7Chris Chelios
tony d41Bill Cook808Cyclone Taylor8Newsy Lalonde
tony d42Chris Chelios799Martin Brodeur9Paul Coffey
tony d43Frank Boucher7810Newsy Lalonde10Ken Dryden
tony d44Marcel Dionne77 9 10
tony d45Martin Brodeur761Frank Boucher1Brad Park
tony d46Joe Malone752Valeri Kharlamov2Pierre Pilote
tony d47Paul Coffey743Brad Park3Paul Coffey
tony d48Ken Dryden734Chris Chelios4Milt Schmidt
tony d49Syl Apps725Pierre Pilote5Syl Apps
tony d50Andy Bathgate716Paul Coffey6Peter Forsberg
tony d51Cy Denneny707Syl Apps7Charlie Conacher
tony d52Earl Seibert698Charlie Conacher8Bernie Geoffrion
tony d53Dit Clapper689King Clancy9Ken Dryden
tony d54Bernie Geoffrion6710Ken Dryden10Henri Richard
tony d55Frank Mahovlich66 11 12
tony d56Charlie Conacher651Pierre Pilote1Marcel Dionne
tony d57Henri Richard642Marcel Dionne2Charlie Conacher
tony d58Glenn Hall633Milt Schmidt3Bernie Geoffrion
tony d59Pierre Pilote624Peter Forsberg4Chris Pronger
tony d60Dickie Moore615Charlie Conacher5Frank Mahovlich
tony d61King Clancy606Bernie Geoffrion6Andy Bathgate
tony d62Tim Horton597Evgeni Malkin7Tim Horton
tony d63Sprague Cleghorn588Earl Seibert8Sprague Cleghorn
tony d64Al MacInnis579Vladislav Tretiak9Ted Kennedy
tony d65Ted Kennedy5610Frank Brimsek10Earl Seibert
tony d66Chris Pronger55 13 14
tony d67Peter Forsberg541Marcel Dionne1Al MacInnis
tony d68Aurele Joliat532Bernie Geoffrion2Frank Mahovlich
tony d69Peter Stastny523Al MacInnis3Joe Malone
tony d70Zdeno Chara514Frank Mahovlich4Cy Denneny
tony d71Toe Blake505Andy Bathgate5Tim Horton
tony d72Anatoli Firsov496Scott Stevens6Teemu Selanne
tony d73Vladislav Tretiak487Tim Horton7Dickie Moore
tony d74Jari Kurri478Earl Seibert8Georges Vezina
tony d75Teemu Selanne469Teemu Selanne9Dit Clapper
tony d76Gilbert Perreault4510Georges Vezina10Clint Benedict
tony d77Borje Salming44 15 16
tony d78Johnny Bucyk431Frank Mahovlich1Aurele Joliat
tony d79Jarome Iginla422Anatoli Firsov2Cy Denneny
tony d80Bill Cowley413Joe Malone3Jari Kurri
tony d81Serge Savard404Cy Denneny4Brett Hull
tony d82Frank Brimsek395Dit Clapper5Max Bentley
tony d83Ron Francis386Jari Kurri6Sergei Fedorov
tony d84Clint Benedict377Brett Hull7Charlie Gardiner
tony d85Johnny Bower368Clint Benedict8Boris Mikhailov
tony d86Boris Mikhailov359Bill Durnan9Bill Durnan
tony d87Scott Stevens3410Turk Broda10Turk Broda
tony d88Guy Lapointe33 17 18
tony d89Sergei Fedorov321Elmer Lach1Bill Gadsby
tony d90Max Bentley312Bill Gadsby2Eric Lindros
tony d91Brett Hull303Brett Hull3Sergei Fedorov
tony d92Sweeney Schriner294Borje Salming4Zdeno Chara
tony d93Alex Delvecchio285Sergei Fedorov5Martin St. Louis
tony d94Eric Lindros276Boris Mikhailov6Boris Mikhailov
tony d95Turk Broda267Nels Stewart7Nels Stewart
tony d96Busher Jackson258Brian Leetch8Brian Leetch
tony d97Hooley Smith249Bill Durnan9Duncan Keith
tony d98Brian Leetch2310Turk Broda10Bill Cowley
tony d99Joe Thornton22 19 20
tony d100Georges Vezina211Bill Gadsby1Eric Lindros
tony d101Valeri Vasiliev202Eric Lindros2Sid Abel
tony d102Tony Esposito193Jarome Iginla3Jarome Iginla
tony d103Evgeni Malkin184Dave Keon4Martin St. Louis
tony d104Norm Ullman175Valeri Vasiliev5Toe Blake
tony d105Alexander Maltsev166Brian Leetch6Valeri Vasiliev
tony d106Roy Worters157Sid Abel7Dave Keon
tony d107Mark Howe148Martin St. Louis8Norm Ullman
tony d108Dave Keon139Toe Blake9Brian Leetch
tony d109Yvan Cournoyer1210Joe Thornton10Pavel Bure
tony d110Eddie Gerard11 21
tony d111Billy Smith101Jarome Iginla
tony d112Ebbie Goodfellow92Sid Abel
tony d113Charlie Gardiner83Valeri Vasiliev
tony d114Syd Howe74Toe Blake
tony d115Jiri Holecek65Norm Ullman
tony d116Bernie Parent56Eddie Gerard
tony d117Pavel Bure47Pavel Bure
tony d118Grant Fuhr38Serge Savard
tony d119Rod Langway29Scott Niedermayer
tony d120Ching Johnson110Ron Francis
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
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Midnight Judges

Midnight Judges

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Feb 10, 2010
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Chris Chelios and Brad Park over Ovechkin is a disaster. That will not age well. I do not know why these rankings should be respected.

[MOD]

Cyclone Taylor 7th all time?!? Dude lead one of three pre-NHL Canadian semi-professional leagues in scoring 5 times IIRC. How on Earth is that comparable or superior to what modern players compete with?

Malkin at 103 is far too low. He's the fairly clear cut third best player of the past 15 years. You guys said any disrespect to old time hockey would be met with vigilante justice (nevermind that vigilante justice is supposed to be ironic because it is NOT justice). You seem to have swung the pendulum massively to the side of disrespecting today's hockey players.
 
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VanIslander

VanIslander

A 19-year ATDer on HfBoards
Sep 4, 2004
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South Korea
It's nice to see pot shots taken at all three lists by someone with the username "Midnight Judges":

Midnight Judges said:
Chris Chelios and Brad Park over Ovechkin is a disaster.
Click to expand...
Mike Farkas did that. I had OV top 20 between Potvin and Kelly, though as a fan I wish I could have justified him even higher.

Cyclone Taylor 7th all time?!?
Click to expand...
I did that. And no, I was not allowed to argue for it, all posts about ineligible candidates were deleted.

Malkin at 103 is far too low. He's the fairly clear cut third best player of the past 15 years.
Click to expand...
Tony d did that. I loathe the Pens but still had Malkin 55th (Sid top 10) between Forsberg and Boucher.
 
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DannyGallivan

DannyGallivan

Your world frightens and confuses me
Aug 25, 2017
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I really like Van's high ranking of Espo and Lafleur, although he ranked Espo even a little high for my tastes (I would have put Guy first). Curious about your reasons for placing Phil so high.
 
VanIslander

VanIslander

A 19-year ATDer on HfBoards
Sep 4, 2004
35,234
6,472
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1. I don't buy the Espo a product of Orr hypothesis.
2. Espo did a lot more than crease dump in garbage goals
3. Espo twice won MVP honors from his peers
4. Espo was incredible in the Summit Series
5. Espo's offensive production was otherworldly and it takes a lot of discounting to even fathom him outside the top 20 where some have continually lobbied him to be around here.
 
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tarheelhockey

tarheelhockey

Offside Review Specialist
Feb 12, 2010
85,130
138,041
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Midnight Judges said:
Chris Chelios and Brad Park over Ovechkin is a disaster. That will not age well. I do not know why these rankings should be respected.

[MOD]

Cyclone Taylor 7th all time?!? Dude lead one of three pre-NHL Canadian semi-professional leagues in scoring 5 times IIRC. How on Earth is that comparable or superior to what modern players compete with?

Malkin at 103 is far too low. He's the fairly clear cut third best player of the past 15 years. You guys said any disrespect to old time hockey would be met with vigilante justice (nevermind that vigilante justice is supposed to be ironic because it is NOT justice). You seem to have swung the pendulum massively to the side of disrespecting today's hockey players.
Click to expand...

Maybe take a breath and look for internal consistency within the lists.

Chelios and Park are listed over Ovechkin because Mike has them solidly 20 spots higher than anyone else... not because he gave Ovechkin some huge penalty. Ovechkin's listed 20th-27th-21st on these three lists... he ended up 22nd on the final. You're freaking out about him being listed all of 5 spots low on one guy's list, which appears to be largely a function of that guy listing defensemen a bit higher than anyone else did.

Taylor is an early era player, yes. I'll defer to VI as to his rationale for having Taylor in his top-10, but the presence of Hod Stuart and Russell Bowie in his top-100 tells me he simply gives a lot of value to early era players in general. That's not a crazy or indefensible position.

Malkin at 103 might be low if you believe he's the clear-cut 3rd best player of the century. But the reason tony d listed him there isn't because tony was ignoring modern players. He has Jagr (14), Crosby (15), Chara (70), Iginla (79), and Thornton (99) ahead of Malkin. It's pretty clear he simply disagrees with you as to where Malkin stands in this generation. You're free to disagree, but it's a fair opinion on his part.
 
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DannyGallivan

DannyGallivan

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VanIslander said:
1. I don't buy the Espo a product of Orr hypothesis.
2. Espo did a lot more than crease dump in garbage goals
3. Espo twice won MVP honors from his peers
4. Espo was incredible in the Summit Series
5. Espo's offensive production was otherworldly and it takes a lot of discounting to even fathom him outside the top 20 where some have continually lobbied him to be around here.
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All good reasons in my books. I had Espo 17th on my list.
 
Michael Farkas

Michael Farkas

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Haha why would it have to "age well" it's a ranking of the best players ever as of the first quarter of 2019...

I can't imagine running around all day trying to stifle perceived slights at a particular player...that can't pay well...
 
MXD

MXD

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tarheelhockey said:
Maybe take a breath and look for internal consistency within the lists.

Chelios and Park are listed over Ovechkin because Mike has them solidly 20 spots higher than anyone else... not because he gave Ovechkin some huge penalty. Ovechkin's listed 20th-27th-21st on these three lists... he ended up 22nd on the final. You're freaking out about him being listed all of 5 spots low on one guy's list, which appears to be largely a function of that guy listing defensemen a bit higher than anyone else did.

Taylor is an early era player, yes. I'll defer to VI as to his rationale for having Taylor in his top-10, but the presence of Hod Stuart and Russell Bowie in his top-100 tells me he simply gives a lot of value to early era players in general. That's not a crazy or indefensible position.

Malkin at 103 might be low if you believe he's the clear-cut 3rd best player of the century. But the reason tony d listed him there isn't because tony was ignoring modern players. He has Jagr (14), Crosby (15), Chara (70), Iginla (79), and Thornton (99) ahead of Malkin. It's pretty clear he simply disagrees with you as to where Malkin stands in this generation. You're free to disagree, but it's a fair opinion on his part.
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Welcome back.
 
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Midnight Judges

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tarheelhockey said:
Maybe take a breath and look for internal consistency within the lists.

Chelios and Park are listed over Ovechkin because Mike has them solidly 20 spots higher than anyone else... not because he gave Ovechkin some huge penalty. Ovechkin's listed 20th-27th-21st on these three lists... he ended up 22nd on the final. You're freaking out about him being listed all of 5 spots low on one guy's list, which appears to be largely a function of that guy listing defensemen a bit higher than anyone else did.
Click to expand...

This type of tactic wasn't part of his rationale for any other player, except Ovechkin. I think it's not coincidental.

I don't use the final as a baseline because the entire group is tainted by far too much Canadian bias, too much Penguins bias, far too much anti-recency bias. I just don't think it's a good starting point because I don't think the survey group is representative. That is nobody's fault BTW, because this was on a volunteer basis.

Ranking Ovechkin outside the top 20 is a disgrace frankly. If people saw this 10, 20, 30 years from now they would wonder what on Earth you guys were thinking.
 
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MXD

MXD

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Oct 27, 2005
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I had guessed correctly that VanIslander was the author of that list. Didn't like R1 one bit, but we were not screening beauty pageants. R1 somehow made look better by R2 voting record.

I had guessed Mike Farkas was the author of that one. Interesting. King Clancy?

Didn't guess Tony_D. Interesting change of mind about Elmer Lach (which I flagged as missing). There was one egregious miss (Cleghorn), which ended up being an omission.
 
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Midnight Judges

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Theokritos said:
It's up to you whether you respect the rankings or not. However what is not up to you is whether to respect the site rules (in particular the one on flaming).
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I was accurately describing the discussions. I do not know how that could be possibly be regarded as flaming.

Ovechkin was being described as a "shoot-only" player by project participants. Multiple other participants were liking this description and defending it.

I just don't see how that descriptor could possibly fly if the group desired accuracy.
 
MXD

MXD

Original #4
Oct 27, 2005
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Midnight Judges said:
I was accurately describing the discussions. I do not know how that could be possibly be regarded as flaming.

Ovechkin was being described as a "shoot-only" player by project participants. Multiple other participants were liking this description and defending it.

I just don't see how that descriptor could possibly fly if the group desired accuracy.
Click to expand...

Maybe. Maybe not. What's your case? More importantly, where's your list?
 
Hockey Outsider

Hockey Outsider

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Jan 16, 2005
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Mike Farkas said:
Haha why would it have to "age well" it's a ranking of the best players ever as of the first quarter of 2019...
Click to expand...

Exactly right. The list is done at a point in time. Frankly, the list is already out of date. Patrick Kane just had a great season (at least his 4th best regular season, maybe even his 2nd best). His ranking is already too low (which many people discussed during the voting rounds). That doesn't mean the list is invalidated - it just reflects the consensus at a specific point in time.

It's crucial that the lists are done without any projections. Look at THN's 1999 list. They had Lindros at 54 - ahead of Kennedy, Yzerman, etc. As great as he was, Lindros had played less than 450 games at that point. That specific ranking now looks silly because we know that Lindros's career was ruined by injuries. Their ranking was speculative. I'd rather us err on the side of being conservative; better to rank based on performance rather than potential.

Will Crosby, Ovechkin, Malkin, etc. look "too low" in ten years? Very likely yes, but that's not the right question to ask. They'll continue to climb the ranks, barring retirement in the near future. Lidstrom was only ranked 26th in our 2008 list. His new ranking reflects his additional accomplishments (two more Norris trophies, two more deep playoff runs, etc). We didn't get it wrong last time; we made a judgment call based on the information available to us at the time, and revised our ranking in the next project to take his more recent accomplishments into account. That's exactly what a group of rational voters should be doing.

As for the question of why our top ten is dominated by older players - they've all finished their careers. Excluding the Big Four, Hull played professional hockey until he was 41; Beliveau til he was 39; Richard til he was 38; Harvey till he was 44; Roy til he was 37; and Bourque til he was 40. I'm not trying to reward longevity for the sake of longevity, but I'm pointing that out to show that everyone else in the top ten had long, full careers. Crosby and Ovechkin are only 31 and 33. Crosby has an excellent chance of moving into the top ten, and Ovechkin has a reasonable one; but it's not "anti-recency bias" to rank these players lower than ones who are roughly comparable, but have already finished their full careers.
 
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Midnight Judges

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Just to be clear, I am not arguing that it's a bad list because you didn't project, or because you didn't factor in a season that hadn't occurred yet. Those things are perfectly fine - I'd argue in favor of them.
 
Midnight Judges

Midnight Judges

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Hockey Outsider said:
As for the question of why our top ten is dominated by older players - they've all finished their careers. Excluding the Big Four, Hull played professional hockey until he was 41; Beliveau til he was 39; Richard til he was 38; Harvey till he was 44; Roy til he was 37; and Bourque til he was 40. I'm not trying to reward longevity for the sake of longevity, but I'm pointing that out to show that everyone else in the top ten had long, full careers. Crosby and Ovechkin are only 31 and 33. Crosby has an excellent chance of moving into the top ten, and Ovechkin has a reasonable one; but it's not "anti-recency bias" to rank these players lower than ones who are roughly comparable, but have already finished their full careers.
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I am not following you here.

Lemieux played all of 915 games + 107 playoff games.

Bobby Hull left the NHL when he was basically the same age Ovie is now, only he had less hardware over a talent pool that was vastly smaller. I don't know how much credit people give for WHA, but surely it's not full credit.

Orr played half a career.

If the criteria is "best" or heavily geared towards peak (as the rankings of the guys above indicate), then Crosby and Ovechkin shouldn't be moving much from today.
 
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Hockey Outsider

Hockey Outsider

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Midnight Judges said:
I am not following you here.

Lemieux played all of 915 games + 107 playoff games.

Bobby Hull left the NHL when he was basically the same age Ovie is now, only he had far less hardware over a talent pool that was vastly smaller. I don't know how much credit people give for WHA, but surely it's not full credit.

Orr played half a career.

If the criteria is "best" or heavily geared towards peak (as the rankings of the guys above indicate), then Crosby and Ovechkin shouldn't be moving much from today.
Click to expand...

I tend to value players who played at an elite level for long periods of time - so I'm higher than the consensus on Bourque, Jagr, Chelios, etc. But an exception needs to be made for Orr and Lemieux, who played at a level only four players in history ever reached. I do have them them ranked 3rd and 4th, behind Gretzky and Howe, though.

When Hull left the NHL he had two Harts and three Art Ross trophies. Ovechkin has three Harts, one Art Ross, and one Conn Smythe (which wasn't around for much of Hull's career, though in fairness I don't think he would have won one anyway). Ovechkin has a Calder, Hull has a Byng, but neither is a major award. Both won one Stanley Cup, if you're counting that. We haven't talked about quality of competition, but before we do, how do you arrive at the conclusion that Hull had "far less hardware"?
 
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Midnight Judges

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Hockey Outsider said:
I tend to value players who played at an elite level for long periods of time - so I'm higher than the consensus on Bourque, Jagr, Chelios, etc. But an exception needs to be made for Orr and Lemieux, who played at a level only four players in history ever reached. I do have them them ranked 3rd and 4th, behind Gretzky and Howe, though.

When Hull left the NHL he had two Harts and three Art Ross trophies. Ovechkin has three Harts, one Art Ross, and one Conn Smythe (which wasn't around for much of Hull's career, though in fairness I don't think he would have won one anyway). Ovechkin has a Calder, Hull has a Byng, but neither is a major award. Both won one Stanley Cup, if you're counting that. We haven't talked about quality of competition, but before we do, how do you arrive at the conclusion that Hull had "far less hardware"?
Click to expand...

My sentence got jumbled in editing. "Far" wasn't supposed to be there.

I don't think the Calder is a big deal relative to top 20 players, and a Byng moves the needle none at all on this level.
 
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tarheelhockey

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Hockey Outsider said:
I'd rather us err on the side of being conservative; better to rank based on performance rather than potential.
Click to expand...

I strongly agree, especially in the context that these lists will continue to be used as a benchmark for years to come. There's a lot of value in being able to track players as they climb the ladder -- Lidstrom's a great example of someone who at one point in time was lumped in with the likes of Rob Blake and Sergei Zubov, and took time to separate himself from the pack. That's rather different than a player like Bobby Orr who was recognized as the best in the world from the day he first stepped on the ice. Knowing that context helps explain why a guy who racked up more games/points/Cups/everything still consistently ranks lower than one with less. And while the difference between them might just be obvious right now, there will come a day where it needs to be justified to skeptics who don't remember either player.

The same can be said of Ovechkin vs other players. Among the "all time elite" tier of players, he has had a very unusual career track of exploding into the league, then kind of fading away for a couple of years, and then exploding again but being dogged by team failures, and finally getting over the hump with a Cup. His last 4 years have meant jumping up the winger rankings over Bossy/Cook/Makarov/Lafleur and into 5th place behind Jagr in the consensus. It's valuable to have a living record of how his consensus ranking fluctuated as those events played out.

Malkin, same thing. He's not a player who gets an easy consensus ranking. His highest and lowest votes are 77 points apart, testifying to the variance in opinion. That comes in the wake of his being famously left off the NHL's top-100 list. You can say that's "wrong" as a matter of opinion, but it seems to be a straightforward fact that rankings on Malkin vary greatly. That's important information, which reflects a reality of how he's perceived at this point in time.
 
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Canadiens1958

Canadiens1958

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tarheelhockey said:
I strongly agree, especially in the context that these lists will continue to be used as a benchmark for years to come. There's a lot of value in being able to track players as they climb the ladder -- Lidstrom's a great example of someone who at one point in time was lumped in with the likes of Rob Blake and Sergei Zubov, and took time to separate himself from the pack. That's rather different than a player like Bobby Orr who was recognized as the best in the world from the day he first stepped on the ice. Knowing that context helps explain why a guy who racked up more games/points/Cups/everything still consistently ranks lower than one with less. And while the difference between them might just be obvious right now, there will come a day where it needs to be justified to skeptics who don't remember either player.

The same can be said of Ovechkin vs other players. Among the "all time elite" tier of players, he has had a very unusual career track of exploding into the league, then kind of fading away for a couple of years, and then exploding again but being dogged by team failures, and finally getting over the hump with a Cup. His last 4 years have meant jumping up the winger rankings over Bossy/Cook/Makarov/Lafleur and into 5th place behind Jagr in the consensus. It's valuable to have a living record of how his consensus ranking fluctuated as those events played out.

Malkin, same thing. He's not a player who gets an easy consensus ranking. His highest and lowest votes are 77 points apart, testifying to the variance in opinion. That comes in the wake of his being famously left off the NHL's top-100 list. You can say that's "wrong" as a matter of opinion, but it seems to be a straightforward fact that rankings on Malkin vary greatly. That's important information, which reflects a reality of how he's perceived at this point in time.
Click to expand...


Conversely, going thru the final list also illustrates how players considered in the top 3 of their day have drifted downward. Cyclone Taylor, Newsy Lalonde, Nels Stewart, etc.
 
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