Vote: Keep or Fire Blash

Should Yzerman Fire Blashill


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Flowah

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Nov 30, 2009
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The Wings have one of the worst rosters in the NHL. They are roughly right where they should be in the standings... How does this make Blashill a bad coach? If there is a coach out there that can squeeze a few extra wins out of this roster, why would we want that?
That's the question I ask myself.

Let's say we had Scotty f***ing Bowman behind the bench. How many more wins is he worth? 5? 10? 10 is the best case scenario imo and it does nothing but take us out of contention for a high pick. We're definitely still far from a playoff threat with and outside looking in with regards to even wildcard playoff bubble teams.

We cry about consistency and consistent effort but I'm of the belief that that's just a proxy for skill. It looks like a lack of consistent effort mostly because the players aren't good enough. So they don't know where to be, what to do with the puck, who to cover, whatever, because the hockey sense/skills just aren't there. And that looks like laziness sometimes. Some of that is surely coaching but most of it has to be on the players. Hockey isn't like football. You can't draw up the entire play. It's way too fluid. At some point players just have to know what to do even when it's not part of the script.
 

Gniwder

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Oct 12, 2009
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That's the question I ask myself.

Let's say we had Scotty ****ing Bowman behind the bench. How many more wins is he worth? 5? 10? 10 is the best case scenario imo and it does nothing but take us out of contention for a high pick. We're definitely still far from a playoff threat with and outside looking in with regards to even wildcard playoff bubble teams.

We cry about consistency and consistent effort but I'm of the belief that that's just a proxy for skill. It looks like a lack of consistent effort mostly because the players aren't good enough. So they don't know where to be, what to do with the puck, who to cover, whatever, because the hockey sense/skills just aren't there. And that looks like laziness sometimes. Some of that is surely coaching but most of it has to be on the players. Hockey isn't like football. You can't draw up the entire play. It's way too fluid. At some point players just have to know what to do even when it's not part of the script.
I don't know how many more he would have won but I can guarantee that Hicketts, Biega, and Hirose would never had seen the ice with Bowman as coach. AA would also have gotten reduced ice time before going -25 or whatever he's at.
 

Gniwder

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Oct 12, 2009
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Remember when Bash would send out slow ass players and/or defensive players like LGD out in OT? He's not doing that anymore either, so there's another improvement over the last couple of years.

PP2 looked better tonight, but the 5 on 3 and 6 on 3 (lol, as if that happens a lot) still needs some work.
 

TheClap

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Jul 20, 2014
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And this is perfect proof, how our problem is not coaching. It's the poor player material.

With better player material, we win. What a coincidence.

Poor player material is the reason, why we are in a rebuild, if somebody didn't know it yet.

It's possible for both things to be true, coach and roster.
Looking at the Islanders roster they really have had no business being division contenders either of the past 2 seasons. The Golden Knights had no business being in the SCF their inaugural season. That's what good coaching does.

The Wings won their last three games. Hooray. They started the season 3-1 before nearly matching last season's 3+ goal loss total in less than a quarter of the games. Let's see what happens when the excitement of adding Fabbri wears off and they inevitably go through some struggles again. If Blash gets them to continue competing like they have been, and continues to show he can learn from and correct some bad decisions he's made, the special teams start looking better, I'll be ok with him hanging around as Yzerman works to improve the roster. If they go through another losing spell like they just did, he's gotta go.
 

Henkka

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Jan 31, 2004
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We can always fire Blashill, if this team will start winning too much games, thanks to good coaching.

Bring in Ted Nolan or something as horrible.
 

TheOtherOne

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Jan 2, 2010
8,265
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I don't know how many more he would have won but I can guarantee that Hicketts, Biega, and Hirose would never had seen the ice with Bowman as coach. AA would also have gotten reduced ice time before going -25 or whatever he's at.
Nobody cares about wins right now. Except that the tank crowd wants as few as possible. So what actually matters regarding this? Player development.

Hicketts: Was there a defenseman who could have played instead who would have benefitted from the NHL time?
Biega: Was there a defenseman who could have played instead who would have benefitted from the NHL time?
My answer is probably not. Anyone we have worth mentioning is young and needs solid AHL time before being thrown to the wolves.
Hirose: Would he develop better in the AHL?
My answer again is probably not. But maybe. Hard to say here.
AA: Would he develop better if he was benched? I doubt it. He's old enough and established enough and he has flourished with increased responsibility before. He's his own worst enemy and if he can't figure it out, I don't think getting scratched is going to help him at this point.

So yea these coaching decisions probably didn't help us win games (who cares) but did they actually hurt anything that matters?
 

Gniwder

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Oct 12, 2009
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Nobody cares about wins right now. Except that the tank crowd wants as few as possible. So what actually matters regarding this? Player development.

Hicketts: Was there a defenseman who could have played instead who would have benefitted from the NHL time?
Biega: Was there a defenseman who could have played instead who would have benefitted from the NHL time?
My answer is probably not. Anyone we have worth mentioning is young and needs solid AHL time before being thrown to the wolves.
Hirose: Would he develop better in the AHL?
My answer again is probably not. But maybe. Hard to say here.
AA: Would he develop better if he was benched? I doubt it. He's old enough and established enough and he has flourished with increased responsibility before. He's his own worst enemy and if he can't figure it out, I don't think getting scratched is going to help him at this point.

So yea these coaching decisions probably didn't help us win games (who cares) but did they actually hurt anything that matters?
The answer to the first 2 questions is plating right now, McIlrath. He may plateau as a 7th D, but still a better 7D than Hicketts or Biega. Getting blown out by 5 goals every game isn't good for any player's development, McIlrath at least has the ability to PK and knock players out of the crease.

Hirose should have been sent down as soon as teams realized they can just knock him over to get the puck... that was the 3rd or 4th game this season.

AA should have gotten reduced ice time to improve his focus. Nobody plays 20+ min when they're on pace to a record negative +/- rating.

I'm not sure that you watch any games, but getting slaughtered every game isn't good for development. Also, the two main objectives for the coach are wins and player development. By selecting the wrong players for the roster, Blash screwed up both. Players don't develop very well when the team loses by 5 points.
 

TheOtherOne

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Jan 2, 2010
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Players don't develop very well when the team loses by 5 points.
I honestly don't know how this could be proved or disproved, but it sounds like bullshit. They have to play against the same players either way. They have the same competition either way. Has nobody in history ever played on a bad team, but developed into a great player?

It's one thing if you're being totally physically outmatched on every shift. I'd agree that THAT would hurt development. But if you play your game and your goalie lets in 5, that somehow stunts your growth? I don't buy it.

These guys are grown ups, that understand that they're on a bad team, they understand they have to be better to have successful careers. I don't think Jimmy being a sieve matters as much as you think it does.

Edit: and I'm getting pretty tired of the subtle little troll "I don't know if you watch games but..."
No, you don't, so don't waste your time on such a dumbass comment.
 

Gniwder

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Oct 12, 2009
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I honestly don't know how this could be proved or disproved, but it sounds like bull****. They have to play against the same players either way. They have the same competition either way. Has nobody in history ever played on a bad team, but developed into a great player?

It's one thing if you're being totally physically outmatched on every shift. I'd agree that THAT would hurt development. But if you play your game and your goalie lets in 5, that somehow stunts your growth? I don't buy it.

These guys are grown ups, that understand that they're on a bad team, they understand they have to be better to have successful careers. I don't think Jimmy being a sieve matters as much as you think it does.

Edit: and I'm getting pretty tired of the subtle little troll "I don't know if you watch games but..."
No, you don't, so don't waste your time on such a dumbass comment.
I'm not trolling, you responded to my post. Whatever.

It's obvious you don't watch any games. Go watch one of those games where they got blown out and just look at the expression on their faces. Seriously, you sound like a guy who's never played a team sport.

Also, on a hockey standpoint, when the forwards don't trust the D and goalie, it breaks down the coverage. Everyone starts chasing the puck like a bunch of Mites instead of covering their man. Watching the difference between Caps (my other team) and Wings is night and day. The Caps don't chase the puck in the D zone, coverage is pretty solid. If they can;t learn proper coverage it's obviously bad for their development. Also, how are they gonna get any offense going when they're stuck in their own zone?
 

TheOtherOne

Registered User
Jan 2, 2010
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I'm not trolling, you responded to my post. Whatever.

It's obvious you don't watch any games. Go watch one of those games where they got blown out and just look at the expression on their faces. Seriously, you sound like a guy who's never played a team sport.

Also, on a hockey standpoint, when the forwards don't trust the D and goalie, it breaks down the coverage. Everyone starts chasing the puck like a bunch of Mites instead of covering their man. Watching the difference between Caps (my other team) and Wings is night and day. The Caps don't chase the puck in the D zone, coverage is pretty solid. If they can;t learn proper coverage it's obviously bad for their development. Also, how are they gonna get any offense going when they're stuck in their own zone?
It's obvious you've never met an athlete in your life and have no idea how sports work.

Since you're doubling down on being a dick.

"I don't know if you watch games but..." is one of the most overused bullshit lines on this forum. It only has one purpose and should automatically trigger a post deletion and warning.

And "the expression on players' faces" isn't an accurate indicator of how well they are developing.
 

Gniwder

Registered User
Oct 12, 2009
14,129
7,488
Bellingham, WA
It's obvious you've never met an athlete in your life and have no idea how sports work.

Since you're doubling down on being a dick.

"I don't know if you watch games but..." is one of the most overused bull**** lines on this forum. It only has one purpose and should automatically trigger a post deletion and warning.

And "the expression on players' faces" isn't an accurate indicator of how well they are developing.
I lived next to hockey players in college, couple of them went pro. I also know a local guy that happened to be a former captain in the NHL, I've watched games with him.

You're telling me that pro athletes don't mind getting shelled in a game? I don't need to resort to name calling, because your posts speak for you.
 

Gniwder

Registered User
Oct 12, 2009
14,129
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Bellingham, WA
You want babcock back?

The leafs are 13th in the standings now.
Hell no, his favorite vets are still on the team so you know Helm, Abby, and LGD are gonna get way too much ice time.

The team needs a coach that can teach defense and actually has a system, but anyone besides Babs.
 

14ari13

Registered User
Oct 19, 2006
14,033
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Norway
Hell no, his favorite vets are still on the team so you know Helm, Abby, and LGD are gonna get way too much ice time.

The team needs a coach that can teach defense and actually has a system, but anyone besides Babs.
I was joking and making fun of Babcock.
 
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Dotter

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I don't know how many more he would have won but I can guarantee that Hicketts, Biega, and Hirose would never had seen the ice with Bowman as coach. AA would also have gotten reduced ice time before going -25 or whatever he's at.

And Bowman would have been tar-and-feathered by the fanbase. Fans demand their shiny new toys be played. Biega and Hirsoe were both shiny new toys once. Bowman would never have played them... then fans would blame Bowman for their young upcoming stars were being wasted away and all their failures are directly Bowman's fault!

I suspect AA will be traded as soon as Yzerman finds a buyer willing to pay something/anything decent for him. AA is foiling those plans by sucking. Benching him isn't going to help his trade value.
 

Dotter

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What I am getting from Yzerman is we should not plan on seeing the important kids up in the NHL anytime soon. He's wanting them to stay down and marinate and get better and better and better. Sounds like he's going to let them ripen up before he attempts to bring them up.

Also this:

"Even during that stretch where we lost a lot and gave up a lot, I can't say it was because we weren't competing," Yzerman said a few hours before a 4-3 loss to the Ottawa Senators. "I'm encouraged by the speed of play and the enthusiasm and the work ethic that the team has, and I think we're seeing progress. … I think collectively as a team, the team plays fast, the team plays hard, and it's a competitive group.

"So obviously we've got a long way to go, but I like the atmosphere within the locker room, within the coaching staff. I think it's very good."

According to Yzerman, I get the sense our coach is doing the important things with less talented roster. They have good attitudes and are working hard and are training hard and preparing and they are "competitive". He thinks it is very good. He keeps talking about work ethics and, competing and good locker room atmosphere.

Clearly, based on Yzerman, Blashill is doing all the right things and he will not be on the chopping block anytime soon.

I am fine with that. I see no issues what-so-ever with coaching. I only see issues with talent.
 
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Gniwder

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Oct 12, 2009
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Bellingham, WA
And Bowman would have been tar-and-feathered by the fanbase. Fans demand their shiny new toys be played. Biega and Hirsoe were both shiny new toys once. Bowman would never have played them... then fans would blame Bowman for their young upcoming stars were being wasted away and all their failures are directly Bowman's fault!

I suspect AA will be traded as soon as Yzerman finds a buyer willing to pay something/anything decent for him. AA is foiling those plans by sucking. Benching him isn't going to help his trade value.
Biega was never a shiny new toy. He had already cleared waivers before Yzerman traded for him.

I suppose you're right about the shiny new toy factor with Hicketts and Hirose, but Bowman never cared about what the fans or even the players thought. Tar and feathers didn't stick to Bowman.

None of which changes my point that the roster selection would have been different with Bowman. Blash does control the roster to a certain extent, as far as picking from what's available.
 

Dotter

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Biega was never a shiny new toy. He had already cleared waivers before Yzerman traded for him.

I suppose you're right about the shiny new toy factor with Hicketts and Hirose, but Bowman never cared about what the fans or even the players thought. Tar and feathers didn't stick to Bowman.

None of which changes my point that the roster selection would have been different with Bowman. Blash does control the roster to a certain extent, as far as picking from what's available.

I'm remember fans getting antsy and a bit snarlly towards him when he lost in the 1st and 2nd rounds to lower teams. Like when they lost to the Oilers back in the early 2000s.

If Blashill was winning mulitple cups, I'm sure people would be okay with him also.

Again, Blashill is doing absolutely fine with the lack of talent that is dumped on him. You need to understand that...
 

Gniwder

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Oct 12, 2009
14,129
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Bellingham, WA
I'm remember fans getting antsy and a bit snarlly towards him when he lost in the 1st and 2nd rounds to lower teams. Like when they lost to the Oilers back in the early 2000s.

If Blashill was winning mulitple cups, I'm sure people would be okay with him also.

Again, Blashill is doing absolutely fine with the lack of talent that is dumped on him. You need to understand that...
Thank you again for telling me what I "need" to do. I have no idea what you do for a living, but you will never persuade a stranger to take your viewpoint by telling people they "need" to do something.

Blashill is not a good coach for reasons I have already pointed out. The 5 on 3 today proves my point. Is he the worst coach ever? No. But he isn't a good one either. My biggest beefs are:
- Stop playing Howard
- PP, especially 5 on 3 (There's enough talent for one decent PP line)
- Defensive system that consists of chasing the puck, with no coverage (or maybe we just have really stupid players)
 

MBH

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What I am getting from Yzerman is we should not plan on seeing the important kids up in the NHL anytime soon. He's wanting them to stay down and marinate and get better and better and better. Sounds like he's going to let them ripen up before he attempts to bring them up.

Also this:



According to Yzerman, I get the sense our coach is doing the important things with less talented roster. They have good attitudes and are working hard and are training hard and preparing and they are "competitive". He thinks it is very good. He keeps talking about work ethics and, competing and good locker room atmosphere.

Clearly, based on Yzerman, Blashill is doing all the right things and he will not be on the chopping block anytime soon.

I am fine with that. I see no issues what-so-ever with coaching. I only see issues with talent.

That Athletic article was such horseshit.

Fire Blash.
 

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