Injury Report: Vol. 4 (Updates in 1st Post) | Game Day @ NJD

[Dipsy Doodle]

I've never seen a fanbase have a player like Letang who is a consistent top five / ten Norris contender and is literally one year removed from a Conn Smythe throw such vitriol at the player.

I wonder what people here would've said about Lemieux through the early '90s. Probably that we should've traded him for a player like Oates who was "more consistent".

Also, what # 1 defenseman isn't putting themselves in the positions that Letang is? Maybe the issue is that Letang is just a relatively smaller defenseman who has had bad luck with injuries? Those players exist. His drive and play shouldn't be seen as a negative.

All the ones that are his size but don't get hurt all the time?

Letang's a helluva player, but his injuries make trading him an option worth considering if we were able to land a more durable dynamic PMD in UFA a la Shattenkirk.

 

[vodeni]

I've never seen a fanbase have a player like Letang who is a consistent top five / ten Norris contender and is literally one year removed from a Conn Smythe throw such vitriol at the player.

I wonder what people here would've said about Lemieux through the early '90s. Probably that we should've traded him for a player like Oates who was "more consistent".

Also, what # 1 defenseman isn't putting themselves in the positions that Letang is? Maybe the issue is that Letang is just a relatively smaller defenseman who has had bad luck with injuries? Those players exist. His drive and play shouldn't be seen as a negative.

my theory is that some of us (at least me) get on Tanger or Flower exactly for the reasons that could be summarized in a way your post reads: How dare you to criticize Letang, if this was 25 years ago you would be saying same thing about 66. I repoated your statement to emphasize the point. The fact that you put 66 and 58 in the same sentence when talking about evaluating players disqualifies you from any further discussion. 66 is one of the two best players that play the game, 58 was never a serious contender to be the best defensman in any of the season he played (unless you listen to the PGH media). He is a top 10 d-man in the league who can do magical things but also frustrate the heck out of everyone with his trademark shortcomings. Again, I don't think we can win without him playing at the level when he is top 10, and minutes he eats up, but throwing a blanket statement that somehow this Board hates him is what caused me to react to your post which I reluctantly do.

(I drove the parallel with MAF not because he is in the same league as Letang (not even close) but because people were sick listening that he is somehow elite goalie when he was just slightly above average goalie for his long career)

I said top ten d-man because of his shortcomings on PP. If he managed to run the PP at high levels he would be top 3

 

[Will Hunting]

Daley doesn't necessarily have to be that good for us to work. It'd be nice though. Our D last season was good but not spectacular. It was the forwards getting back and pressuring the opposition all over the ice.

If you put this playoff D against last it's not the end of the world.

2016 Dumo 2017 -Dumo: He was great last year and he's getting better and better lately. Pretty even.

Letang - Schultz: Schultz can't replace Letang completely but he's pretty comparable offensively. On D yeah he's a bit below.

Maatta - Maatta: He's better than last year by quite a bit. Just depends on how he comes back after the injury.

Lovejoy - Hainsey: Lovejoy was good and Hainsey seems pretty reliable I think those 2 are pretty even.

Cole -Cole: He's better than last season and as long he doesn't have to play too many minutes things should go well.

Daley -Daley: Daley likely won't be as good but we didn't have him the whole playoffs either. Very encouraged that he's skating with contact. He could be a wildcard.

It's more the uncertainty with the injured guys but the D core is definitely able to play solid hockey. Just play good consistent hockey. Let the forwards win it for us (and that Murray guy).

Also, our forwards should be better. Sheary and Guentzel make a huge difference, Rust is better now, Malkin was playing injured with Fehr and KUNITZ last year, that won´t happen this year. We don´t have HBK, but both Sid and Geno should have much better conditions now. Much better.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

Letang with two instagram posts today.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BShLMlchAiK/

https://www.instagram.com/p/BShREv7ha3A/

 

[Tender Rip]

****!

We didn't need that.

Lots of things need to go right to win a cup, and being short of your Nr.1 D-man for the duration is not one of those things. Less so when you have a handful of key players who are also just coming back from injury, rusty and all, and two of last years key forwards have looked shells of themselves for a long time.

With the way Sheary and Guentz have stepped up this season, and Schultz + Cole also, it was really looking like a golden opportunity to defend the cup if we could be healthy for the playoffs.

This makes it a lot harder and the cummulative effect if we were to lose another or Maatta/Daley look like damaged goods coming back is even worse.

****!

 

[KIRK]

Gronkowski, Romo, etc. have all come back from herniated disc surgery.

But, HF likes to cue the "this player should give up his career" because what is funner than over reaction on an internet message board.

Gronkowski and Romo had herniated discs in their backs.

Manning was in the neck.

And, it's not saying 'the player should give up his career' when one says surgery for a herniated disc in the neck isn't a sure thing and can lead to career threatening complications.

 

[Pens17]

Doesn't strike me as a guy that would retire unless doctors forced it.

In context of Letang's PMH and the violence of the game, it is far from assured that medical clearance will ever exist. Furthermore, 100% resolution of his symtoms e.g. upper extremity weakness and neuropathies (that often develop) may not occur. Additionally, the liability involved in clearing him becomes a cause of concern for the treating physician.

Great player; unfortunate circumstances.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

None of those peices are of importance. Take Jarry out. You'd still have a better package than what the Caps gave the Blues

It's an assumption on your part just like mine is in regards to the capitals would match and beat us as they were motivated to land Shattenkirk.

 

[Nakawick]

Yeah, really sucks for not just this year but the possibility that we never see the high level Letang again.

 

[Penske]

****!

We didn't need that.

Lots of things need to go right to win a cup, and being short of your Nr.1 D-man for the duration is not one of those things. Less so when you have a handful of key players who are also just coming back from injury, rusty and all, and two of last years key forwards have looked shells of themselves for a long time.

With the way Sheary and Guentz have stepped up this season, and Schultz + Cole also, it was really looking like a golden opportunity to defend the cup if we could be healthy for the playoffs.

This makes it a lot harder and the cummulative effect if we were to lose another or Maatta/Daley look like damaged goods coming back is even worse.

****!

It's bad for the team but we have the ability to overcome it. Let's just hope he makes a full recovery. In light of the Okposo news things could be much much worse.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Stroke was nothing related to hockey. He literally just posted he'll back in a couple of months on his instagram.

I don't know. I think he is in the perfect state to make the decisions he and his family want to. Considering like.. he is Kris Letang and with his family and obviously has gotten multiple doctor's opinions.

It is so weird to me that Peter Forsberg is seen as a pariah for always trying to play, but players like Letang are "dumb" because message board users think they are endangering their lives. Everyone's body breaks down, if I was making 7.25 million dollars to do what I loved, I'd take the risk especially if professionals are telling me that I could do it. They literally just let him skate knowing he had a herniated disc.

Yeah he's smart enough to make sure the doctors assess all the risks first. People just freak for the sake of freaking out.

 

[Rocket of Russia]

Hurricanes in 2006 and teams with bad defenses (Penguins in 2009, Flyers in 2010) have made cup runs in the past.

Yep, the Hurricanes that year and the Lightning the year before didn't have #1s, but that's about it. And for the record both of those teams had crazy talented forward groups and goalies playing out of their minds.

Pronger, Gonchar, and Hedman are number ones, we don't have anyone of that caliber healthy.

Pronger is most certainly a number 1; the flyers do not belong on that list. Gonchar was a good enough PP QB to warrant it I'll concede. However, Hedman was drafted in 2009. The Bolts didn't have a dman average over 22 minutes a night between Kubina, Boyle, and Sydor. They were definitely lacking on the back end.

I've never seen a fanbase have a player like Letang who is a consistent top five / ten Norris contender and is literally one year removed from a Conn Smythe throw such vitriol at the player.

I wonder what people here would've said about Lemieux through the early '90s. Probably that we should've traded him for a player like Oates who was "more consistent".

Also, what # 1 defenseman isn't putting themselves in the positions that Letang is? Maybe the issue is that Letang is just a relatively smaller defenseman who has had bad luck with injuries? Those players exist. His drive and play shouldn't be seen as a negative.

For the most part I agree with you. This fan base in general dumps on him unnecessarily. I would have thought the main PP criticism would have died down when the PP continued to be ineffective but that largely still lives.

That being said, he can most certainly get himself out of harm's way better. He doesn't need to win every foot race to the end boards, especially with a dirtbag player like Callahan trying to get his team any advantage he can when his play certainly isnt gonna do it (I believe the poster who said this hit was a big catalyst is 100% right). Letang should try to play a little more like Duncan Keith if possible.

All the ones that are his size but don't get hurt all the time?

Letang's a helluva player, but his injuries make trading him an option worth considering if we were able to land a more durable dynamic PMD in UFA a la Shattenkirk.

The reality is there's no trade value equal to his play at this point, and it's been that way since the stroke - that's just the reality of it.

Letang - Schultz: Schultz can't replace Letang completely but he's pretty comparable offensively. On D yeah he's a bit below.

That's quite the understatement.

****!

We didn't need that.

Lots of things need to go right to win a cup, and being short of your Nr.1 D-man for the duration is not one of those things. Less so when you have a handful of key players who are also just coming back from injury, rusty and all, and two of last years key forwards have looked shells of themselves for a long time.

With the way Sheary and Guentz have stepped up this season, and Schultz + Cole also, it was really looking like a golden opportunity to defend the cup if we could be healthy for the playoffs.

This makes it a lot harder and the cummulative effect if we were to lose another or Maatta/Daley look like damaged goods coming back is even worse.

****!

****! Exactly...

 

[Jacob]

Zetterberg had a herniated disc surgery, at an older age than Letang and arguably in a more sensitive area (lower back), and has been fine since.

Major surgeries are always a risk. Sometimes a guy comes back and is just never the same, or there are complications and they never come back at all, but that happens less and less as the years go by and surgical techniques and innovations in rehabilitation increase.

 

[StroShow]

I don't think the defence is really all that bad without Letang , obvs it's a big blow but this group of 6 isn't bad.

Dumoulin - Hainsey
Cole - Schultz
Maatta - Daley

 

[Finesse]

I don't think the defence is really all that bad without Letang , obvs it's a big blow but this group of 6 isn't bad.

Dumoulin - Hainsey
Cole - Schultz
Maatta - Daley

Sure, but neither Maatta nor Daley are currently playing. I wouldn't count them in until I see them on the ice.

 

[Captain Hook]

Devastating loss as far as Letang goes. I have my doubts they can overcome it but it does allow them to go into the playoffs as an underdog which I kind of prefer. Still lots of talent on this Pens team so who knows what will happen.

 

[Dread Pirate Roberts]

I don't think the defence is really all that bad without Letang , obvs it's a big blow but this group of 6 isn't bad.

Dumoulin - Hainsey
Cole - Schultz
Maatta - Daley

Sure, but neither Maatta nor Daley are currently playing. I wouldn't count them in until I see them on the ice.

Not to mention the fact that Maatta - Daley as a pairing isn't just bad, it's bad enough to lose a series basically by itself. It's nothing less than poisonous.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Not to mention the fact that Maatta - Daley as a pairing isn't just bad, it's bad enough to lose a series basically by itself. It's nothing less than poisonous.

You know what though, lets see how Olli does when he's back. I saw a few clips of him doing his skating drills and he looks a little smoother on the ice, whether that translates in the game is yet to be determined, but I would look look at keeping Daley away from Maatta as that pairing isn't the right fit, the Pens need to use him as a shutdown guy.

I'd look at...

Cole, Schultz
Dumoulin, Streit
Maatta, Hainsey

Bench: Daley - Either rotate him in with Maatta to do a Hainsey-Daley pair, or rotate him in with anyone that isn't playing well, both need their reps in and both need to be playing well for us to get far in the playoffs, but there is hope there that getting 2 solid defensemen like that with the rest in the line-up will help in any case.

Rotate Daley in with Streit and either send Ruhwedel down when both return or keep him up for the black aces, but I'd keep him in the AHL to help their run.

 

[pokey10]

Pronger, Gonchar, and Hedman are number ones, we don't have anyone of that caliber healthy.

in 2004?, what?

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Pronger, Gonchar, and Hedman are number ones, we don't have anyone of that caliber healthy.

Without Letang, yeah you're right.

But Tampa didn't win the Cup with Hedman as their #1.

• Tampa won with a defense that had - Boyle, Kubina, Sarich, and Lukowich as their top 4. They had Cullimore and Sydor as well. I mean...yeah, that defense won a Cup.
• Carolina won with a defense that had - Kaberle, Hedican, Ward, Commodore, Wesley, and Wallin.

I'm not saying it's going to be easy, but it's ****ing doable and I am sick of the negative ******* on here that are supposed fans that are all about the doom and gloom with the current state of the Pens defense. How many other teams in this league are missing their #1 defensemen and have a guy that isn't even considered a #2 Defensemen, with a 50pt season right now (49, but he'll hit it).

The team has what it takes, it's 100% the coaching staff to make sure they stretch what they have and they have more than enough to do it. It's now about studying the pairings and making those changes fast to get the most out of the team.

 

[NeedleInTheHay]

Without Letang, yeah you're right.

But Tampa didn't win the Cup with Hedman as their #1.

• Tampa won with a defense that had - Boyle, Kubina, Sarich, and Lukowich as their top 4. They had Cullimore and Sydor as well. I mean...yeah, that defense won a Cup.
• Carolina won with a defense that had - Kaberle, Hedican, Ward, Commodore, Wesley, and Wallin.

I'm not saying it's going to be easy, but it's ****ing doable and I am sick of the negative ******* on here that are supposed fans that are all about the doom and gloom with the current state of the Pens defense. How many other teams in this league are missing their #1 defensemen and have a guy that isn't even considered a #2 Defensemen, with a 50pt season right now (49, but he'll hit it).

The team has what it takes, it's 100% the coaching staff to make sure they stretch what they have and they have more than enough to do it. It's now about studying the pairings and making those changes fast to get the most out of the team.

You're selling that Tampa defense short.

2004 versions of Pavel Kubina and Dan Boyle is better than anyone we have right now.

The Caps are an incredible team and they would draw them in round 2, they'd need a miracle without Letang, or maybe Murray playing like 1990s Dominick Hasek.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Keep the faith, there's some solid depth on Defense right now with Hainsey having everything to prove in his first trip to the playoffs, he'll be putting 100% and then some all on the ice, Streit is probably looking for a huge run as well and Daley missed the finals last year because of his foot so they have a bunch of guys that are wanting to prove something. Even Schultz who was a bit player last time, this time he's leading the charge.

I'm pretty excited to see the defense prove people wrong.

And yeah, I remember Sarich and Kubina, solid as hell defensemen back then and Boyle was at his best.

 

[Tender Rip]

There's certainly no reason to throw in the towel. On paper we are much better equipped to handle Letang's absence now than last year.

Only problem is the amount of people likely to not be in form. Last year it took an awesome effort to beat the Caps with very little injuries. This season at this point they're fully healthy and we're.... not. At all.

But if Malkin, Rust and Hags come back guns blazing, then our forward lineup could be just uncontrollable for most teams if the 1st line keeps up, Kessel and Bones go back to playoff form and Sullivan finds the right line combos.

Hope the injured guys can get some time in before the playoffs also, because it just seems unrealistic to beat Columbus in a series with 5 or 6 key guys having to play their way to fitness.

 

[High Flying Birds]

Streit is awful defensively. If Maatta and Daley are back come playoff time, both should be ahead of him in the depth chart.

 

[JTG]

Gronkowski, Romo, etc. have all come back from herniated disc surgery.

But, HF likes to cue the "this player should give up his career" because what is funner than over reaction on an internet message board.

Gronkowski hasn't returned yet. Romo had a herniated lumbar disc, and one could even say that after that he wasn't as good. Peyton Manning had a herniated disc in his neck and had surgery just like Letang is about to. Peyton Manning was a complete shell of his former self.

Peyton Manning on his neck surgeries rehab — and how he almost didn’t make it back

I'm not saying Letang won't make it back, but I put this one right up there with the stroke.