Player Discussion: Vladislav Namestnikov

[Leonardo87]

I'm not sure you realize how hard it is to be as good as Alex Killorn at the NHL level. None of those guys are sure-bets. Erne's not going to step in and immediately produce as well as Killorn. You don't just "make room" for those guys. You make them earn their spots, and then, if you have to, you make room. Nobody's even come close to taking Killorn's spot yet.

This

You just don't "Make room" for players who have not only establish experience in the NHL but who also have a track record of success. These new and upcoming players are not guranteed to perform in the NHL.

 

[Todd1a]

I'm not sure you realize how hard it is to be as good as Alex Killorn at the NHL level. None of those guys are sure-bets. Erne's not going to step in and immediately produce as well as Killorn. You don't just "make room" for those guys. You make them earn their spots, and then, if you have to, you make room. Nobody's even come close to taking Killorn's spot yet.

You never know erne could pull a kucherov down in the ahl 18 games then called up. We all knew yzerman wanted iginla in the offseason where was he going to slot ? I'd assume if that happened then boyle would not be here and morrow also.

 

[Coopers Gum]

You never know erne could pull a kucherov down in the ahl 18 games then called up. We all knew yzerman wanted iginla in the offseason where was he going to slot ? I'd assume if that happened then boyle would not be here and morrow also.

I'd rather not trade a player because, "well, you never know!"

And I'm betting we would've still gotten Boyle (didn't we already have him at the time anyway? Maybe not). We needed an upgrade on the 4th line after trading Thompson.

 

[Leonardo87]

I'd rather not trade a player because, "well, you never know!"

And I'm betting we would've still gotten Boyle (didn't we already have him at the time anyway? Maybe not). We needed an upgrade on the 4th line after trading Thompson.

Boyle has been awesome this season, one of his best seasons of his career, must be the Florida air, lol.

 

[DFC]

This

You just don't "Make room" for players who have not only establish experience in the NHL but who also have a track record of success. These new and upcoming players are not guranteed to perform in the NHL.

Yeah. And as much as we love our prospects, "newer" isn't always "better." Tanner Richard, for instance has barely produced as much at the AHL level as Killorn is producing in the NHL. He's a good prospect, but expectations on him are different. He's not even a guy who's going compete for Killorn's spot. Last I saw, O'Donnell appeared to have taken a step back this year, and he's going to need time in Syracuse regardless.

I think a lot of us are stuck in the mindset of constant turnover, always looking at what's coming down the pipe as if it's going to be better than what we already have. What we already have is really, really good though.

And, now that we've moved Connolly, and with Morrow on the way out, we'll have some open space over which young guys will compete. To me, it looks like Erne and Namestnikov have an inside track, but Namestnikov still looks like he has a tough road to a regular spot, given that he's a center and what's ahead of him (Johnson, Filppula).

 

[DFC]

You never know erne could pull a kucherov down in the ahl 18 games then called up. We all knew yzerman wanted iginla in the offseason where was he going to slot ? I'd assume if that happened then boyle would not be here and morrow also.

It took Kucherov a full year of growing pains to settle into the NHL. So how about we let Erne prove himself before we start "making room" for him? We have a spot open for him to take next year without even thinking about moving Killorn anyway. Erne is, at best, 50-50 to make the NHL next year. And that might be too generous (and I'm a guy who thinks Erne might actually make the team--not everyone does). And there are almost certainly going to be a year's worth of growing pains. Not to mention Jon Cooper's reluctance to hand major responsibility to rookies.

But what it really comes down to is the old saying: if it ain't broke, why fix it? Pretty much any young player stepping into Killorn's slot would be a downgrade in the immediate future. If someone overtakes him, and we get to a point where he's overpaid for his role, we can cross that bridge when we get to it.

As of right now he's an NHL-proven two-way winger with a knack for scoring clutch goals. If we were to move him, we'd better hope a serious upgrade at another position was coming.

 

[The Macho King]

I'll go on to say that (with the possible exception of Carle), pretty much any trade that Yzerman makes from here on is going to be a hockey trade. If the return doesn't make the team better in the short term, it's probably not going to be made. We're just entering that contending window - moving players for picks and prospects just isn't the way to roll as a contender.

 

[MattM92]

I think Killorn is a key part of our core and moving him will be one of the last resorts. Guy has chemistry with everyone, plays a very solid 2 way game with speed, is a beast along the walls and is good for 40-50 points a season on a cheap contract. No reason to move him.

 

[DFC]

I'll go on to say that (with the possible exception of Carle), pretty much any trade that Yzerman makes from here on is going to be a hockey trade. If the return doesn't make the team better in the short term, it's probably not going to be made. We're just entering that contending window - moving players for picks and prospects just isn't the way to roll as a contender.

Agreed. That's what made the Connolly trade a little surprising, even if it was recouping assets lost in the Coburn move. But I guess maybe it shows a little bit of management's internal view on Connolly. I don't think they would have made that move if they believed it would make us worse this season.

 

[Werewolf]

We don't have to move guys that are performing to find room for unproven rookies - especially next year where basically everyone on the roster now is signed except for Morrow (replaced with Paquette). We do have to re-sign Vladdy this off-season but that is merely a formality since he is a RFA. Expect Marchessault/Ashton/Witkowski who are at the tail end of their development time to find themselves into roster spots as healthy scratch options to round out the in-season roster and fourth line. Paquette/Boyle/Ashton-Brown sounds good to me on the fourth line. If we go traditional 3 healthy scratches...Marchessault/Ashton/Witkowski is not bad at all if Barbs is not re-signed. And I don't expect him to be re-signed.

We do not need to find room for Erne/Peca/Wilcox/DeAngelo/Koekkoek on the game day roster at all. They'll be dominating down in the AHL. I expect all these players to get the Koekkoek treatment this year. Significant play time on top6/top4 lines and rotating our older prospects in and out of lineup as healthy scratches just like Witko/Angelidis/etc. Also, with Nesterov you have to understand that he is 22 but he is a 4th year Pro. He played in the KHL for two years before coming over and the year before his AHL game he played 35 games plus playoffs in the KHL so he is really on the older band as far as pro games played and he is just getting his feet wet now in the NHL.

Killorn can skate with Stammer and Drouin. The only thing that bothers me is in the physicality/defending your teammates department. He is a big body who is skilled and can play the boards, front of net, etc. He is on a short term cheap contract. That line is now in more of a scorer role with Drouin on it ... Killorn is fine right there and his points will be higher next season for sure. There are no easy spots to take now on the roster...besides fourth liners and fifth/sixth defenseman.

 

[nhljohnson]

Killorn is certainly very good at this level as a complimentary winger and a guy you'd like to keep around indefinitely but, looking at the big picture, he will be expendable sooner rather than later. If and when, though, Killorn is moved, it won't be driven by the desire to make way for an up-and-comer but rather out of necessity for reasons related Tampa Bay's proximity to the cap ceiling.

It's important to see him in the financial context more than anything else: Killorn will be a 26 year old RFA in the summer of 2016 who will have concluded his third professional contract, which was a so-called "bridge" deal that spanned 2 years with a $2.55m AAV. In short, Killorn will be due for a hefty raise, regardless of term, and buying out UFA years with a multiple years for another contract won't do anything but drive the bill up even higher.

Unless Tampa Bay sees him as a core piece for beyond next season or is determined to find a way to unload Filppula or Callahan (don't bank on it), it's pretty clear he's as good as gone when you consider the potential extensions looming for certain forwards (Kucherov and Stamkos before, during or after 2015-2016 and Drouin, Johnson and Palat before, during or after 2016-2017).

 

[Leonardo87]

Yeah. And as much as we love our prospects, "newer" isn't always "better." Tanner Richard, for instance has barely produced as much at the AHL level as Killorn is producing in the NHL. He's a good prospect, but expectations on him are different. He's not even a guy who's going compete for Killorn's spot. Last I saw, O'Donnell appeared to have taken a step back this year, and he's going to need time in Syracuse regardless.

I think a lot of us are stuck in the mindset of constant turnover, always looking at what's coming down the pipe as if it's going to be better than what we already have. What we already have is really, really good though.

And, now that we've moved Connolly, and with Morrow on the way out, we'll have some open space over which young guys will compete. To me, it looks like Erne and Namestnikov have an inside track, but Namestnikov still looks like he has a tough road to a regular spot, given that he's a center and what's ahead of him (Johnson, Filppula).

My wording was off on that post, but you knew what I meant, lol. I meant to say that you don't move guys who have the experience and a proven track record for unproven guys just to make cap room. You will never win anything by doing that. But glad we are on the same page, and you knew what I was talking about, lol.

 

[HoseEmDown]

Killorn is certainly very good at this level as a complimentary winger and a guy you'd like to keep around indefinitely but, looking at the big picture, he will be expendable sooner rather than later. If and when, though, Killorn is moved, it won't be driven by the desire to make way for an up-and-comer but rather out of necessity for reasons related Tampa Bay's proximity to the cap ceiling.

It's important to see him in the financial context more than anything else: Killorn will be a 26 year old RFA in the summer of 2016 who will have concluded his third professional contract, which was a so-called "bridge" deal that spanned 2 years with a $2.55m AAV. In short, Killorn will be due for a hefty raise, regardless of term, and buying out UFA years with a multiple years for another contract won't do anything but drive the bill up even higher.

Unless Tampa Bay sees him as a core piece for beyond next season or is determined to find a way to unload Filppula or Callahan (don't bank on it), it's pretty clear he's as good as gone when you consider the potential extensions looming for certain forwards (Kucherov and Stamkos before, during or after 2015-2016 and Drouin, Johnson and Palat before, during or after 2016-2017).

Why would they trade Killorn over Filpulla after next season? Killorn is 6 years younger and can be signed for less then what Filpulla is currently making. You don't trade a 26 year old to keep a 32 year old, especially when the 26 year old plays on the top line and the 32 the third line.

I'm not a huge Killorn fan as he's one of the softest players I've ever seen but he plays well with Stamkos. Stamkos has shown that he's not easy to play with. It would be great if Erne could replace Killorn so there's a physical presence on the top line but we don't know if he can. Guys like Richard, Peca, O'Donnell would be lucky to just make the NHL, they're not going to be top line players like Killorn is currently.

 

[c_robio]

Killorn is certainly very good at this level as a complimentary winger and a guy you'd like to keep around indefinitely but, looking at the big picture, he will be expendable sooner rather than later. If and when, though, Killorn is moved, it won't be driven by the desire to make way for an up-and-comer but rather out of necessity for reasons related Tampa Bay's proximity to the cap ceiling.

It's important to see him in the financial context more than anything else: Killorn will be a 26 year old RFA in the summer of 2016 who will have concluded his third professional contract, which was a so-called "bridge" deal that spanned 2 years with a $2.55m AAV. In short, Killorn will be due for a hefty raise, regardless of term, and buying out UFA years with a multiple years for another contract won't do anything but drive the bill up even higher.

Unless Tampa Bay sees him as a core piece for beyond next season or is determined to find a way to unload Filppula or Callahan (don't bank on it), it's pretty clear he's as good as gone when you consider the potential extensions looming for certain forwards (Kucherov and Stamkos before, during or after 2015-2016 and Drouin, Johnson and Palat before, during or after 2016-2017).

Agree with all this and I figure it could come down to Killorn vs Filppula as it will be tricky to keep both past 2017

Filppula would make the most sense. Top 6 Centers are in high demand. Vermette got a 1st+ as a rental and I'd consider them comparable. Namestnikov looks like he can take over for Filppula
with a lot of RFA years left

For some reason though I just can't picture SY trading Filppula. Could be the Detroit connection or maybe he wouldn't want to move out a guy that was brought in as a UFA but it would just really surprise me
if he isn't here at least until his current deal expires

 

[Todd1a]

Yeah. And as much as we love our prospects, "newer" isn't always "better." Tanner Richard, for instance has barely produced as much at the AHL level as Killorn is producing in the NHL. He's a good prospect, but expectations on him are different. He's not even a guy who's going compete for Killorn's spot. Last I saw, O'Donnell appeared to have taken a step back this year, and he's going to need time in Syracuse regardless.

I think a lot of us are stuck in the mindset of constant turnover, always looking at what's coming down the pipe as if it's going to be better than what we already have. What we already have is really, really good though.

And, now that we've moved Connolly, and with Morrow on the way out, we'll have some open space over which young guys will compete. To me, it looks like Erne and Namestnikov have an inside track, but Namestnikov still looks like he has a tough road to a regular spot, given that he's a center and what's ahead of him (Johnson, Filppula).

You don't move vladdy you can never have enough centers

 

[Sky04]

You don't move vladdy you can never have enough centers

I don't think you understand, so you would rather keep him here and stunt his development than give him up for a return and let him thrive elsewhere?

He's NHL ready, we know that, except he has no role as a top-4 center on this team for at least until Filppula leaves, he'll find himself in the same situation as Connolly next year.

 

[Sky04]

Agree with all this and I figure it could come down to Killorn vs Filppula as it will be tricky to keep both past 2017

Filppula would make the most sense. Top 6 Centers are in high demand. Vermette got a 1st+ as a rental and I'd consider them comparable. Namestnikov looks like he can take over for Filppula
with a lot of RFA years left

For some reason though I just can't picture SY trading Filppula. Could be the Detroit connection or maybe he wouldn't want to move out a guy that was brought in as a UFA but it would just really surprise me
if he isn't here at least until his current deal expires

Where do you see that? Namestnikov is heavily sheltered while Filppula plays a shut down role while producing 50+ points. Vlad on a good year next season might hit 30-40. Unless it's a top prospect I don't see a point in developing him for the future when we're in a win-now mode. A center depth of Stamkos-Johnson-Filppula is as good as anyone elses in the league, not so much if you replace him with Namestnikov.

 

[2020 Cup Champions]

I don't think you understand, so you would rather keep him here and stunt his development than give him up for a return and let him thrive elsewhere?

He's NHL ready, we know that, except he has no role as a top-4 center on this team for at least until Filppula leaves, he'll find himself in the same situation as Connolly next year.

They might just try him at wing for year.

 

[DFC]

They might just try him at wing for year.

It looks like that's the plan. But I'd be a little worried about taking a natural center and giving him very little opportunity to play center for the foreseeable future, only because the plan is, apparently, to move him back to C when we need one. Not to mention Paquette seems at least as well suited for the 3C role.

I'm not in a hurry to trade Namestnikov. But he looks very expendable just because it's hard to picture him taking over a center role with the team without spending years on the wing first.

 

[Volodya Krutov]

Actually Namestnikov looking fine outside of his natural position makes him even more important to this team, versatility is a blessing in hockey. In fact Namestnikov is looking better at wing than he seems at center to be completely honest, he's been a true nhl player lately.

 

[2020 Cup Champions]

Actually Namestnikov looking fine outside of his natural position makes him even more important to this team, versatility is a blessing in hockey. In fact Namestnikov is looking better at wing than he seems at center to be completely honest, he's been a true nhl player lately.

I don't know if he's better at wing or not, but I think the fact that they tend to draft for hockey IQ is exactly for situations like this. If you get a player who understands the game well enough within our system (and whatever systems they play as they rise through the leagues), they can slot in other places (provided they have the handedness for the required side as preferred).

 

[nhljohnson]

Why would they trade Killorn over Filpulla after next season? Killorn is 6 years younger and can be signed for less then what Filpulla is currently making. You don't trade a 26 year old to keep a 32 year old, especially when the 26 year old plays on the top line and the 32 the third line.

You're fixated on their ages and a sense of preference for one over the other when there's other, much more pertinent information which I shared in the post you responded to.

The reason I brought up Filppula and Callahan as theoretical but unlikely alternative options to make room for Killorn long-term is that their situations are more complicated: they have leverage through contractual protections against being traded. Killorn does not.

Again, I have no doubt the organization would love to have Killorn for a long time. However, participation in a league governed by a salary cap, especially for a team having the kind of success the Lightning is having, makes tough personnel decisions an unavoidable reality. There's only so much pie to carve up each season and the band will be impossible to keep together as is. Not making things any easier is the likelihood of another sparse increase in the cap ceiling due to the weak Canadian dollar, many players not heading to free agency preferring not to help push the ceiling up because it would mean more of their money in escrow and, some push-back from lower-budget franchises eager for the cap floor to rise incrementally, if at all.

Maybe Lightning brass sees Killorn as a critical piece of the club for years to come and will do whatever it takes to accommodate him. If not (as I suspect), then enjoy his tenure as a Bolt while it lasts.

 

[Todd1a]

I don't think you understand, so you would rather keep him here and stunt his development than give him up for a return and let him thrive elsewhere?

He's NHL ready, we know that, except he has no role as a top-4 center on this team for at least until Filppula leaves, he'll find himself in the same situation as Connolly next year.

vladdy is not moving till the stamkos deal get signed! but i don't think vladdy is moving period. vladdy will be the 3rd line center next year on this team flipper goes to wing.

 

[Todd1a]

Where do you see that? Namestnikov is heavily sheltered while Filppula plays a shut down role while producing 50+ points. Vlad on a good year next season might hit 30-40. Unless it's a top prospect I don't see a point in developing him for the future when we're in a win-now mode. A center depth of Stamkos-Johnson-Filppula is as good as anyone elses in the league, not so much if you replace him with Namestnikov.

so your saying we don't need vladdy ? that we will never have a injury at center? depth is important and needed.

 

[LTIR Trickery]

I love the kid but I still see holes in his game, and tossing flip away to "make room" is silly.