Blue Jays Discussion: Roy Halladay elected to 2019 Baseball Hall of Fame class

[BertCorbeau]

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[Apotheosis]

Seriously can't wait to see Bichette, Jansen and Vlad play next season. If all things go right, this team could be scary good.

 

[TF97]

Seriously can't wait to see Bichette, Jansen and Vlad play next season. If all things go right, this team could be scary good.

I’m not optimistic it will happen but at the same time I would not be too surprised. With a team comprised of so many young players, it is not completely uncommon for them to outperform their expectations. Especially when you have a player of Vlad’s caliber on the roster.

It will be an enjoyable season to watch regardless, in my opinion. It will be long at times, but still fun to watch the young players develop.

 

[Apotheosis]

I’m not optimistic it will happen but at the same time I would not be too surprised. With a team comprised of so many young players, it is not completely uncommon for them to outperform their expectations. Especially when you have a player of Vlad’s caliber on the roster.

It will be an enjoyable season to watch regardless, in my opinion. It will be long at times, but still fun to watch the young players develop.

For myself, I don't care too much for a good record indicating growth. This team obviously isn't anywhere close to a finished product. A low finish in the standings for a very high pick combined with selling off some guys for prospects could go a long way with keeping this team competitive and elite for a long time. This season alone, I will be more pre-occupied with individual development of the guys coming up, rather than the team's performance as a whole.

 

[rimshot]

My suggestion that high school ballplayers take the college scholarships offered and enter the minor leagues only after graduation has run into some opposition. I had initially thought that receiving a free a free education while learning to play ball would be superior to not having an education while being paid poorly in the minors. I have been persuaded by preceding posters that this is false because pitchers often hurt their arms and Latin American players are poor.

 

[as Pure as Evil]

so machado is reportedly asking for a contract larger then stantons. you would think presidents of baseball teams would be weary of these contracts after the arod/pujuls/tulo/howard contracts that have been handed out prior. . ill say it again baseball needs a hard cap even if its over 120 million. cause as of now you have your constant contenders being the nyy/sox/dodgers the ones with the deepest pocket books. the rest are pretty much playing farm team to them

( I do know that its got a fires chance in hell and will never happen) cause we all know its gonna be as cold as hell in the pit

 

[phillipmike]

As a leaf fan I could careless about a cap. Every city has competitive advantage. Leafs lose their advantage of spending money. But Tampa has advantages like no state tax and better weather and the league doesn’t and can’t do anything about that.

The playing field will never be completely even. Giving higher draft picks to losing teams and 6-7 years of control should be the only extent of parity in any league. Let the free market, smart owners, efficient management and good coaching to go with the on field play dictate who wins and should stay in the league.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

As a leaf fan I could careless about a cap. Every city has competitive advantage. Leafs lose their advantage of spending money. But Tampa has advantages like no state tax and better weather and the league doesn’t and can’t do anything about that.

The playing field will never be completely even. Giving higher draft picks to losing teams and 6-7 years of control should be the only extent of parity in any league. Let the free market, smart owners, efficient management and good coaching to go with the on field play dictate who wins and should stay in the league.

Oakland did it. I mean teams caught up, but there are still teams that are smarter than others and can make it work with less money.

It's not like these cheaper teams are not getting compensated either. Don't they get paid by the league, just like in the NHL? Plus they also receive extra picks. Plus it is not like players just expensive out of nowhere... Teams get a lot of cheap control over guys before they get paid big money, unlike in the NHL where they can now hold you at gunpoint if they wanted to after 3 years.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

My suggestion that high school ballplayers take the college scholarships offered and enter the minor leagues only after graduation has run into some opposition. I had initially thought that receiving a free a free education while learning to play ball would be superior to not having an education while being paid poorly in the minors. I have been persuaded by preceding posters that this is false because pitchers often hurt their arms and Latin American players are poor.

Plus the ones coming out of High School usually get a lot more money offered than what a free education is worth (or they could pay their way through it and still have money left over, if they are smart), so unless they feel like developing in college will get them even more money on top of that, they usually do not go that route.

 

[canucksfan]

Seriously can't wait to see Bichette, Jansen and Vlad play next season. If all things go right, this team could be scary good.

I think the earliest you will see Bichette is mid-season. Mightbe possible, his first season is next year.

This season will be much better to watch than last year. Could be a worse record but at least the young guys will be entertaining.

 

[rimshot]

Plus the ones coming out of High School usually get a lot more money offered than what a free education is worth (or they could pay their way through it and still have money left over, if they are smart), so unless they feel like developing in college will get them even more money on top of that, they usually do not go that route.

Actually, my suggestion was a response to the complaint lodged that minor leaguers were underpaid and eventually leave without the benefit of future prospects for employment. I suggested that accepting even a partial scholarship would be a better than playing in the minors and ending up with nothing.

 

[phillipmike]

Unless Bo goes full Vladdy circa 2018, we shouldn’t see him until September. No need to call him up this season unless he earns it with strong play in AAA

 

[BAM]

My suggestion that high school ballplayers take the college scholarships offered and enter the minor leagues only after graduation has run into some opposition. I had initially thought that receiving a free a free education while learning to play ball would be superior to not having an education while being paid poorly in the minors. I have been persuaded by preceding posters that this is false because pitchers often hurt their arms and Latin American players are poor.

MLB teams pay for the tuition of players after they've retired if they wish to go back to school. There's a certain amount of years they have but I'm not sure exactly. It's not like they're losing an education by choosing baseball first.

 

[BAM]

so machado is reportedly asking for a contract larger then stantons. you would think presidents of baseball teams would be weary of these contracts after the arod/pujuls/tulo/howard contracts that have been handed out prior. . ill say it again baseball needs a hard cap even if its over 120 million. cause as of now you have your constant contenders being the nyy/sox/dodgers the ones with the deepest pocket books. the rest are pretty much playing farm team to them

( I do know that its got a fires chance in hell and will never happen) cause we all know its gonna be as cold as hell in the pit

Those 3 teams have only won 4 of the last 18 championships.

 

[hockeywiz542]

Why Blue Jays could be players in future free agent classes - Sportsnet.ca

Not now. But next year? Or the year after? I’ll make a bold prediction: next winter, the Blue Jays will aim higher in free agency. Much higher. That doesn’t mean they’ll sign Nolan Arenado or Xander Bogaerts … but they’ll make a call. Maybe even a follow-up. By then, the core of the future Blue Jays will have arrived and – if all goes well – will have begun creating their own culture. Vladimir Guerrero, Jr., Bo Bichette, Nate Pearson, Danny Jansen and the rest of them will have started something to build on. Committing large money to a big-name free agent right now makes no sense because in addition to not moving the needle on winning, there is a danger that person ends up creating a culture that the younger players need to fit around. That’s the opposite of what the Blue Jays want.

There are some intriguing free agent classes ahead, most particularly 2021 when Mike Trout (who will be 29) and 28-year-old Mookie Betts could be out there as free agents, and 2022 when any team needing an infielder could have its pick of Francisco Lindor, Carlos Correa, Javier Baez, Corey Seager or Trevor Story. All of them will be under 30 (as an aside: you think Harper vs. Machado has gummed up the works, have fun deciding which of those infielders signs first).

Trout’s status figures to be the most-watched personnel decision of these next two seasons. His team, the Los Angeles Angels, has wasted his early years and he’s considered a model citizen, teammate, defender and hitter. He is Mantlesque, without the hangover.

Look: I don’t know if the Blue Jays will be fishing in these waters – sorry, had to – but I do know this: if the organization gets the initial stages of this reset right, there will be an ample supply of players who might put a team over the top. And as I mentioned on Monday, if the market continues recent trends – if management keeps doing what it’s doing and the players association tips more and more towards being an “association” as opposed to a union — the chance exists that the premium that has always been needed to bring free agents to this city might be a little less onerous than it was when the Blue Jays had to guarantee Russell Martin five years in order to bring him home. “This keeps up, the market’s going to fall back to the field until the CBA is renegotiated,” I had an agent email me the other day. “Not sure I like where term and dollars are going, but more teams will be able to go in on more players in the next couple of years.”

 

[Apotheosis]

Why Blue Jays could be players in future free agent classes - Sportsnet.ca

Yup. This is precisely why the timing of this rebuild ending up being near perfect. Our best prospects right now are hitters. If the Jays can develop some quality starting pitching, the Trout FA class and beyond will be huge for them.

 

[canucksfan]

Yup. This is precisely why the timing of this rebuild ending up being near perfect. Our best prospects right now are hitters. If the Jays can develop some quality starting pitching, the Trout FA class and beyond will be huge for them.

The Jays have good young players in the lower end of the minors that can be used for trade to get experienced MLB players along with getting FAs. The franchise is in excellent shape especially after this year. Very small payroll with no bad contracts. Excellent minor league system with great prospects at all levels.

 

[Eyedea]

2019 Top 10 catching prospects in MLB
MLB.com 2019 Prospect Watch

Top 5 Cs don't change, Jansen still ranked 5th.

 

[zeke]

so machado is reportedly asking for a contract larger then stantons. you would think presidents of baseball teams would be weary of these contracts after the arod/pujuls/tulo/howard contracts that have been handed out prior. . ill say it again baseball needs a hard cap even if its over 120 million. cause as of now you have your constant contenders being the nyy/sox/dodgers the ones with the deepest pocket books. the rest are pretty much playing farm team to them

( I do know that its got a fires chance in hell and will never happen) cause we all know its gonna be as cold as hell in the pit

a cap would make salaries go up, not down.

mlb teams pay their players much less of league revenue than the other leagues do. mlb teams are laughing.

if mlb had a cap tied to 50% of league revenue, the cap would be at least $160m and maybe significantly more depending on some other league assets being included, and the floor would be at least $120m.

 

[zeke]

Why Blue Jays could be players in future free agent classes - Sportsnet.ca

there won't be any better FAs that fit the vladdy window better than guys like Harper and machado.

both of them are younger than much of the "youth" shapkins has added so far.

it's a weird argument to claim that we shouldn't be signing them because for some reason we should only start spending next year.

miss out on Harper and machado because we have to wait until next year to spend because....?

 

[Skin Tape Session]

I’m not optimistic it will happen but at the same time I would not be too surprised. With a team comprised of so many young players, it is not completely uncommon for them to outperform their expectations. Especially when you have a player of Vlad’s caliber on the roster.

It will be an enjoyable season to watch regardless, in my opinion. It will be long at times, but still fun to watch the young players develop.

My hope is these kids produce enough for management to consider adding, maybe not this year but next off season. Does anyone know how this ''rebuild'' is impacting the budget the next few years?

What are we at now? Will rogers keep it down? Will they make shatkins do what AA had to do before the dicky/reyes trades and get more budget or is the unspent portions this year rolled over?

Edit

Ok just checked, 68 million with 38 retained lol, most in majors by 15 million lol. So 98 million. 100 million is more than enough in three years if it stays 100 million. Jeez, I am actually preying the casuals jump on Vladdys Nut.

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

there won't be any better FAs that fit the vladdy window better than guys like Harper and machado.

both of them are younger than much of the "youth" shapkins has added so far.

it's a weird argument to claim that we shouldn't be signing them because for some reason we should only start spending next year.

miss out on Harper and machado because we have to wait until next year to spend because....?

Agreed. Both make sense in their own way:

1. Machado, signed from age 26-34. Plays SS in 2019 and 2020, then moves to 3B (when Vlad moves to 1B), leaving SS for Bo or K. Smith thereafter.
2. Harper, signed from age 26-34. Plays RF and bats 3rd (behind Vlad) for the cost controlled Vlad years.

After hearing Dan Lozano cry yesterday, there's likely some opportunity at the very least in the Machado sweepstakes.

The only valid reason I could see for not being on one of the two is perhaps wanting to buy big on starting pitching, which would have to wait until next offseason. The whole "we're rebuilding, so we'll sign guys when we're good" is fine, but when that's as early as 2020....get in there.

 

[BAM]

there won't be any better FAs that fit the vladdy window better than guys like Harper and machado.

both of them are younger than much of the "youth" shapkins has added so far.

it's a weird argument to claim that we shouldn't be signing them because for some reason we should only start spending next year.

miss out on Harper and machado because we have to wait until next year to spend because....?

It's not as simple as MLB 19 The Show and signing them. They have to want to come here, the Jays don't have a foundation built yet. If Vlad has a Trout like rookie season then you'd have guys jumping over each other to play with him. If Vlad Jr turns out the way he should, players will come. Miggy's presence helped bring in Fielder/V-Mart, the Cards had Pujols when they traded and signed Holiday, etc.

 

[BlueForever75]

If we can see progress made throughout the organization consistently this season, I don't care if its at the MLB level or not. The goal should be that players like Vladdy, Bo, Biggio, Smith, Pearson, Tellez, Gurriel, Jansen, SRF, Panone, Borucki, McGuire, Hernandez, Grichuk, McKinney, and all other prospects or younger players continue to take steps forward and their growth isn't stunted by injury.

In the end regardless of where they play, their value increases, their skills get better and whether or not its for the Jays core moving forward or being a piece we can use to add to core. The Jays will be in a good position come next off season.

Obviously some players will be in the MLB developing. But some really don't need to be rushed considering what we have available on the MLB level. Why bring up Bichette if you have Drury, Travis, Gurriel, and Vladdy at MLB level? Why not let those players flourish hopefully and turn them into assets for other area upgrades, while at the same time Bo, Smith and Biggio are developing in the minors? Why bring up McGuire right now, when you have Jansen and Maile to handle catcher duties? Why bring up Tellez right now if you still have Morales and Smoak?

Let the players develop in the minors, hope players have better seasons at the MLB level. Then trade and recycle, while recouping more assets hopefully. As long as prospects are playing that should be the goal regardless of where. Last thing we want is for prospects to be platooned or bench players at MLB level which stunts their growth. They need at bats and playing time.

That is my point of view. We are not going to challenge for anything this season. Its all about development.

 

[zeke]

It's not as simple as MLB 19 The Show and signing them. They have to want to come here, the Jays don't have a foundation built yet. If Vlad has a Trout like rookie season then you'd have guys jumping over each other to play with him. If Vlad Jr turns out the way he should, players will come. Miggy's presence helped bring in Fielder/V-Mart, the Cards had Pujols when they traded and signed Holiday, etc.

so stripping down the team to bare bones actually HURTS our chances at signing impact FA.

interesting.