Blue Jays Discussion: Vlad Jr wait/watch II: Watch Harder

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

man we have rich owners, but cheap out on contracts, but then you pay 40mill for a guy to play for another team? lol are our guys in suits dumb? or is this a sign we finally spending more freely now

Tulo ain't playing for anyone.

You’re not really “eating” 38m if the guy was gonna be paid it anyway and had no chance of being traded, right?

Pfft. I've had it up to here with your "facts". Sunk cost? Enough of your borax poindexter.

 

[ShaneFalco]

He was great for us for a short time but this is beautiful
Obviously entitled too

 

[TheBeastCoast]

man we have rich owners, but cheap out on contracts, but then you pay 40mill for a guy to play for another team? lol are our guys in suits dumb? or is this a sign we finally spending more freely now

Yeah because signing Bautista to that long term deal would definitely be awesome right now. Maybe....and I know this might be a crazy idea to some people. They didn't sign the big money deals after 2015 because every single one of those players were going to the downturn of their career and it didn't actually make sense!

 

[Discoverer]

Might as well eat Martins deal for a prospect and Morales for the roster spot. Completely clear the deck for 2020.

Those guys are done after 2019, so the deck should clear itself for 2020 regardless.

I still think they'll end up moving Martin, but I get the impression Morales is a guy they like having around the kids, so it wouldn't be worth dumping him for nothing.

 

[TheBeastCoast]

He was great for us for a short time but this is beautiful
Obviously entitled too

He honestly was never even that great. He just wasn't Jose Reyes for a few months when we really didn't want Jose Reyes.

 

[Discoverer]

Tulo ain't playing for anyone.

You and I both know he's signing with the Yankees to fill in for Gregorius and completely rediscovering his All-Star form.

 

[Battle Lin]

dam we pay 40mill for a guy to not be on our team

we dont even pay 40mill to a guy to come play for our team

 

[ryno23]

I love how it takes spending $38 million for literally nothing to classify as a good move . Almost like spending is all you want lol

Not at all. They used their financial muscle to pay Tulo to go bye bye and avoid any BS in spring training when reporters are going to grill him daily on what happens if he doesn't play SS this year. Can he beat out Gurriel or even better Bichette. Would he demand a trade and sulk in the corner with a team trying to rebuild and build a culture.

Good on Shatkins for getting Rogers to pay $38 mil upfront to get rid of the problem. Just shows you that Rogers has money to spend so people can't stop with the budget this and budget that. If a company has a budget for a team year to year they cannot afford to drop 38 million in one fell swoop.

They showed their financial clout today and that should be applauded finally. Next move it to trade Martin for anything even if its bringing back a salary dump that can help the team for 1 year maybe an overpaid pitcher or an OF as Martin has no value to the Jays with the young catchers they have in house. Martin would be better served going to a contender.

Yes I want the Jays to spend on quality players or bring in quality player even with high salaries if they can win. Imagine the Leafs saying well you know we should just stay at the floor of the salary cap since we make billions and that would help us make a few more million by not spending players and expecting people to show up. Now the Leaf fans they would show up like blind sheep we have been doing it for 100 years. The Jays fans are not that same breed. They want a winner some shinny toys to cheer for. Funny when Tulo, Price came along the place started to be full again....why? Jays fans only want to show up if its the cool thing to do in town and the team is winning. They won't show up until the team starts to win again. That is how baseball works in Toronto they don't have the Leafs blind loyalty.

Problem on here is some of the regular hipsters guys lol don't have the 40 year perspective as some of us have. Some of us were in our 20's when the Jays were world series winners and showed their financial clout. If you are 35 and younger you don't have the full experience to understand what they Jays were at that time and how they were the envy of baseball with a great team and a state of the art stadium. If you are 35 that means you were 10 years old in 1993 and you didn't understand payroll concepts, financial muscle, FA and all that side of the game. You were 10 years old just watching the game. That is not a slag on anyone here but just reality of being older give you more perspective on the past.

Will be the same for you hipsters who will be the old crusty guy like me on here in 20 years arguing with the new 20 year old's hipsters (if that is what we are calling them then) about the Tulo, Price deals and AA playoff series and why they let Vlad start the year in AAA vs bringing them up hahaha

 

[The Nemesis]

He was great for us for a short time but this is beautiful
Obviously entitled too

Except he wasn't really great.

He slashed .250/.313/.721 with 36 HR and a 95 wRC+ in just under 700 PAs in his time with the Blue Jays. He was basically a bottom-of-the-order bat with decent (if unspectacular) defence. Even his first partial season in Toronto after the trade was a sub .700 OPS and a 92 wRC+.

He was OK and he was better than the decaying corpse of Jose Reyes, but he wasn't great. Basically all of the helium Tulo has had with the Jays fans is that his acquisition coincided with the team's crazy 2015 winning streak as if he was the spark behind that.

It's a lot of money to swallow, but it was clear that Tulo had basically no part in this team even for next season as part of a rebuild-y year.

 

[Eyedea]

Honestly though, how can anyone see the way the stars of the 2015 team broke down in just 1-3 years and still think that AA wanted to deal with that nonsense. He had the foresight to leave, wait it out for a good team to pop up (thanks
Coppollela) and boom back into contention without the rebuilding headache.

 

[ryno23]

Except he wasn't really great.

He slashed .250/.313/.721 with 36 HR and a 95 wRC+ in just under 700 PAs in his time with the Blue Jays. He was basically a bottom-of-the-order bat with decent (if unspectacular) defence. Even his first partial season in Toronto after the trade was a sub .700 OPS and a 92 wRC+.

He was OK and he was better than the decaying corpse of Jose Reyes, but he wasn't great. Basically all of the helium Tulo has had with the Jays fans is that his acquisition coincided with the team's crazy 2015 winning streak as if he was the spark behind that.

It's a lot of money to swallow, but it was clear that Tulo had basically no part in this team even for next season as part of a rebuild-y year.

Like you said above you can't put numbers on what Tulo brought to the team. His numbers were pedestrian but there was a swagger he brought to the team and the clubhouse. A hard nosed mentality that the team needed at the time. A guy who pushes others to be great. I know that doesn't compute on spreadsheets but like you said the hype he brought to the team excited the fan base. They filled the building and made it a great place to play again. A full house and loud was it worth a run or 2 or a win or 2 probably but you can't put that on paper you just have to believe it like Santa Claus lol.

I know lots of people don't believe in clubhouse swagger and those intangibles but i have played on enough sports teams whether as a youth or even adult rec to know bringing in a quality player and someone with some swagger and past accomplishments can help a team. Guys just feel better, walk around the ball park with a higher step...feel like they should win every night. Mental part of the game is so huge in sports that guys like Tulo can affect a team in a positive way more off the field vs on it.

But you were right his best days were left in Colorado.

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

You and I both know he's signing with the Yankees to fill in for Gregorius and completely rediscovering his All-Star form.

Shout out to Tulo out here batting 3rd for the 2019 World Series Champion Yankees.

 

[hockeywiz542]

 

[ShaneFalco]

Except he wasn't really great.

He slashed .250/.313/.721 with 36 HR and a 95 wRC+ in just under 700 PAs in his time with the Blue Jays. He was basically a bottom-of-the-order bat with decent (if unspectacular) defence. Even his first partial season in Toronto after the trade was a sub .700 OPS and a 92 wRC+.

He was OK and he was better than the decaying corpse of Jose Reyes, but he wasn't great. Basically all of the helium Tulo has had with the Jays fans is that his acquisition coincided with the team's crazy 2015 winning streak as if he was the spark behind that.

It's a lot of money to swallow, but it was clear that Tulo had basically no part in this team even for next season as part of a rebuild-y year.

I think I over-value him just because of the excitement of the playoffs and having a contending team. Defensively though, I though he was pretty damn good. No Reyes

 

[Eyedea]

Like you said above you can't put numbers on what Tulo brought to the team. His numbers were pedestrian but there was a swagger he brought to the team and the clubhouse. A hard nosed mentality that the team needed at the time. A guy who pushes others to be great. I know that doesn't compute on spreadsheets but like you said the hype he brought to the team excited the fan base. They filled the building and made it a great place to play again. A full house and loud was it worth a run or 2 or a win or 2 probably but you can't put that on paper you just have to believe it like Santa Claus lol.

I know lots of people don't believe in clubhouse swagger and those intangibles but i have played on enough sports teams whether as a youth or even adult rec to know bringing in a quality player and someone with some swagger and past accomplishments can help a team. Guys just feel better, walk around the ball park with a higher step...feel like they should win every night. Mental part of the game is so huge in sports that guys like Tulo can affect a team in a positive way more off the field vs on it.

But you were right his best days were left in Colorado.

So do you still believe in Santa or are we finally coming to the conclusion that Tulo’s “swagger” is phantasm?

 

[thehockeysong]

The 38M would be paid over the next two years still I believe, no?

Good point! I'm not actually sure when payment is due. You are right that it isn't necessarily up front like a true buyout .

 

[inthe6ix]

Martin next..

 

[Cor]

Yeah, Tulo was a real spark alright.

He said recently that if he wasn't the starting SS, he didn't want to be on the team lmao

 

[TheBeastCoast]

lol I think Stroman is complaining that the Jays didn't tell him about this move again on Twitter. Gonna turn into an off season tradition until they trade him without telling him and the full meltdown happens.

 

[ryno23]

So do you still believe in Santa or are we finally coming to the conclusion that Tulo’s “swagger” is phantasm?

bit of both lol. Gotta believe in Santa for a few more years. Can't really break it to my 3 and 5 year old that Santa doesn't exist lol. I do believe in swagger just ask Kirk Gibson in 1988.

 

[topched]

Martin next..

Difference is while Martin is overpaid he still has value. Elite defensive catcher/pitching manager. Can play multiple positions when needed.

I can see a team being willing to take Martin on, maybe with some $$.

 

[Kurtz]

We might have been able to save a few mil via a Tulo buyout, but perhaps instead opted to retain a good relationship with his agent, who represents quite a few guys.

 

[Amadeus]

He was great for us for a short time but this is beautiful
Obviously entitled too

I don't think he was great. But he played a huge role in us winning the first series against Texas.

His HR in Texas is what started it all.

Good luck to him, but it never seemed that he embraced the organization and the city. Won't miss him.

 

[The Nemesis]

Like you said above you can't put numbers on what Tulo brought to the team. His numbers were pedestrian but there was a swagger he brought to the team and the clubhouse. A hard nosed mentality that the team needed at the time. A guy who pushes others to be great. I know that doesn't compute on spreadsheets but like you said the hype he brought to the team excited the fan base. They filled the building and made it a great place to play again. A full house and loud was it worth a run or 2 or a win or 2 probably but you can't put that on paper you just have to believe it like Santa Claus lol.

I know lots of people don't believe in clubhouse swagger and those intangibles but i have played on enough sports teams whether as a youth or even adult rec to know bringing in a quality player and someone with some swagger and past accomplishments can help a team. Guys just feel better, walk around the ball park with a higher step...feel like they should win every night. Mental part of the game is so huge in sports that guys like Tulo can affect a team in a positive way more off the field vs on it.

But you were right his best days were left in Colorado.

How can you assign all of this (or even any of this) to Tulowitzki when within a 3 day span they brought in him, Price, Lowe, and Revere. Why is it not any one of them that gets credit for all the intangible stuff? Why isn't it all of them as a unit. Why isn't it something else that was said and done.

The fact is that we don't know if any one thing set the team off on their magical run to end the season, a combination of innumerable other things, or nothing at all and just a good old fashioned hot streak that happens from time to time. I don't even recall the players themselves ever saying specifically that Tulowitzki pushed them to new levels or anything like that. The whole "it's all on Tulo" is 100% a media-driven narrative because Sportsnet started putting up one of those "since this date" arbitrary splits trackers that they timed to the day the trade for him was made. That and the fact that Tulo was still regarded as a high end brand-name player meant that people scrambled for intangible/narrative-focused ways to elevate his being on the team since they clearly couldn't do so with his performance.

Also nice job with the pointless "spreadsheet" digs. And the backfiring Santa Claus analogy too, since the whole point you're trying to make there is undermined by the fact that Santa Claus isn't real (and neither is this idea that Tulo is singularly responsible for a significant part of the team's run to the playoffs)

 

[The Nemesis]

Martin next..

Nah. Worst case is that they can't move Martin but he's still actually useful as a mentor/instructor for Jansen (and McGuire if he stays on the roster in that case) and maybe they find a way to use Martin as a utility guy. Best case is that there's still a market out there for him in spite of his salary because it's just 1 more season and even with how underwhelming his offensive numbers tend to look, the catcher position is such an offensive wasteland that it's actually quite good, relatively speaking.