Value of: Vince Dunn

sfvega

Registered User
Apr 20, 2015
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Dunn is an RFA, right? What his next contract going to look like? Three to four years at 2 to 3 million per? I still don’t get why the Blues would trade this guy, but would they want no money coming back?

Have you heard of us trying to re-sign our franchise defenseman? Because if that were not the case, we'd definitely keep him because despite having a couple of promising LD prospects, our current LD situation minus Dunn would be a real disaster if those guys don't pan out immediately.
 

67Blues

Got it for Bobby
Mar 22, 2013
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Section 111
Dunn is an RFA, right? What his next contract going to look like? Three to four years at 2 to 3 million per? I still don’t get why the Blues would trade this guy, but would they want no money coming back?
You hit the nail on the head. You have a proven NHL quality defenseman who is young, cost controlled under his non-arbitration RFA status, has a Cup ring, and is a known entity for the team. The Blues will give him a fair bridge deal in the ballpark you mentioned.

The scenario that the Blues entertain this is that they have to move cap to sign Petro, but with LTIR, they should have enough space. The other scenario is if Perunovich suddenly steps up and fills Dunns skates, but that isn't something they can even imagine before the season starts, so that doesn't help the above cap scenario.

I just don't see them trading Dunn unless the package was compelling enough and they feel that they can have a left side of Mikkola (5 NHL games) and/or Perunovich (0 professional games), anchoring a spot with Faulk on the 3rd pairing. Blues aren't rebuilding, they aren't going to do something like that.

The final scenario is some team offer sheets Dunn for stupid money like $4m+ and he signs it. If that is the case, then good luck, the Blues will settle for the draft pick then and go to the backup plan.
 
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Fatass

Registered User
Apr 17, 2017
21,951
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You're not getting a 1st for Vince Dunn, Even a $4 million offer sheet only cost a 2021 2nd round pick.
A smart GM should offer sheet Dunn at 4 million per over 4 or 5 years. Or give him the term at that cap hit that gets him to sign.
Dunn is young, and developed top four D.
 

Number1RedWingsFan52

Registered User
Mar 17, 2013
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Winter Haven Florida
A smart GM should offer sheet Dunn at 4 million per over 4 or 5 years. Or give him the term at that cap hit that gets him to sign.
Dunn is young, and developed top four D.
If i'm Yzerman i 100% go after Dunn, He's exactly what we need in Detroit. I'd gladly give Dunn an offer sheet of 4 million for 4 or 5 years losing a 2nd isn't going to kill us.
 

biotk

Registered User
Jan 3, 2017
7,091
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Buffalo
Hmmm...so you cherry-picked Edmundson out of 4 names because I'm guessing that's who showed up lowest on the table of stats after sorting.

You mentioned two names over and over again - Faulk and Edmundson. I discussed them both.

As for who fans on here want, as is always the case with fans on hfboards, they go gaga over heavily sheltered D who have good analytics (because they are heavily sheltered). As for who coaches and GMs of competitive teams want - which is the only thing that matters - it is the exact opposite - you can just look at the types of players they add at the deadline: the Blues added Scandella, the Bolts added Bogo etc.
 

67Blues

Got it for Bobby
Mar 22, 2013
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Section 111
A smart GM should offer sheet Dunn at 4 million per over 4 or 5 years. Or give him the term at that cap hit that gets him to sign.
Dunn is young, and developed top four D.
In a flat cap world, that might be a bit of a risky move. If he gets it, good luck to him and the Blues will take the 2nd round pick and accelerate Mikkola and Perunovich and see what happens.

Plus, as your team knows (assuming by your location), the Blues do retaliate on offer sheets :naughty::laugh:
 

Alklha

Registered User
Sep 7, 2011
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Why do people still think offer sheets are going to be a thing?

If the Blues are looking to trade Dunn then he’ll be gone at the draft. So any ideas that you can wait about and offer sheet him in that situation is a non-starter. That’s before we talk about the more general problems with the idea of offer sheeting him.
 

67Blues

Got it for Bobby
Mar 22, 2013
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Section 111
Why do people still think offer sheets are going to be a thing?

If the Blues are looking to trade Dunn then he’ll be gone at the draft. So any ideas that you can wait about and offer sheet him in that situation is a non-starter. That’s before we talk about the more general problems with the idea of offer sheeting him.
It feeds people's fantasy of getting something for nothing. When was the last time there was a successful offer sheet that worked out?
 
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sfvega

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Apr 20, 2015
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You mentioned two names over and over again - Faulk and Edmundson. I discussed them both.

As for who fans on here want, as is always the case with fans on hfboards, they go gaga over heavily sheltered D who have good analytics (because they are heavily sheltered). As for who coaches and GMs of competitive teams want - which is the only thing that matters - it is the exact opposite - you can just look at the types of players they add at the deadline: the Blues added Scandella, the Bolts added Bogo etc.

I mentioned Edmundson because he was the biggest liability defensively, not insinuating that he only played with him but that it's the most stark contrast to someone who actually plays defense and does it incredibly well like Parayko. Edmundson started his last season with Petro, but that was almost two years ago now. But at the end, Gunnar was playing with Petro more and Eddy/Bortuzzo was rotating in the playoffs as dressing next to Dunn. Neither was good enough to separate themselves as an everyday player, but Dunn was and by a pretty wide margin. He was a big loss in the playoffs when he was out. I forgot to ask, do your 5-on-5 numbers include the playoffs? I know there's somewhere on the page where you read your opinions that should indicate if it does or not.

And laughable to hear you talk down to people over using analytics when you really haven't told me anything about Dunn that isn't painfully obvious that you just read off of a stats table while trying to sound like you're educated and at the same time condescending. Like you know the absolute most about these guys of anyone who doesn't watch their games at all.
 

biotk

Registered User
Jan 3, 2017
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Buffalo
I mentioned Edmundson

You mentioned Edmundson more than anyone else and then got in a huff when I finally responded to your repeatedly lies that he was out all the time with Edmundson.

"But it's way more difficult when he's paired out there with Edmundson, Faulk, or Bortuzzo"

"What I'm talking about is going out there with cement skates, turnover machine Edmundson or Faulk who has trouble with even the idea of defense at times"

"Imagine acting like pairing with Faulk or Edmundson is an easy assignment. To think the staff "doesn't trust him" when they play him every game, versus Edmundson and Gunnar"

And laughable to hear you talk down to people over using analytics when you really haven't told me anything about Dunn that isn't painfully obvious that you just read off of a stats table while trying to sound like you're educated and at the same time condescending. Like you know the absolute most about these guys of anyone who doesn't watch their games at all.

As I do with most D who the analytics community develops a fetish around, I specifically watched a couple games to see how Dunn played - it was around Christmas time. As I was only watching the segments in which he played over 2 or 3 consecutive games and he did not play a lot it didn't take up too much time. If I remember correctly the Blues won all the games and he barely touched the ice when good opposing players were out there. McDavid, Drai, MacKinnon, I can't remember if there was a third game....maybe Kane. He's not a bad D, but was still often shaky defensively against sheltered competition, and he is almost 24, with three complete seasons of third pairing deployment on a team that has weak LHDs ahead of him. That doesn't get you a first.
 

Colt55

Registered User
Sep 28, 2017
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st. Louis
This is a public forum. If someone was to post:

"Make your best offer for Travis Dermott that includes a 2020 1st round pick. There is no dumps coming back or going with Dermott."

And then spent the whole time bitching that only people who are willing to meet that ridiculous criteria can post in this thread it would be a laughing stock.

Travis Dermott is younger than Dunn, less sheltered than Dunn despite playing behind far better D on the left side than Dunn does. Dermott is far better defensively. In fact Blues coaching staff has so little trust in Dunn that they picked up Scandella around the trade deadline to further shelter and reduce Dunn's minutes. Dunn is better offensively than Dermott, but Dermott has been more productive than Dunn at 5v5.

Dermott also had the same ridiculous analytical numbers when he was sheltered to the degree Dunn has been. The same thing happens with a couple highly sheltered 3rd-pairing D on here every year. The same group of people go gaga for them and then forget about them 2 years later when it is realized that their analytics numbers were only due to extreme sheltering and they can't handle heavier deployment.

You will probably find the odd poster on here who will "offer" a first plus, but no GM will because they live in
From the Sens I’d give Islanders first round pick and Logan Brown.

Dunn will be a good top 3-4 dman for many years.

So far I think this is the best offer.
 

Colt55

Registered User
Sep 28, 2017
6,786
1,437
st. Louis
This is a public forum. If someone was to post:

"Make your best offer for Travis Dermott that includes a 2020 1st round pick. There is no dumps coming back or going with Dermott."

And then spent the whole time bitching that only people who are willing to meet that ridiculous criteria can post in this thread it would be a laughing stock.

Travis Dermott is younger than Dunn, less sheltered than Dunn despite playing behind far better D on the left side than Dunn does. Dermott is far better defensively. In fact Blues coaching staff has so little trust in Dunn that they picked up Scandella around the trade deadline to further shelter and reduce Dunn's minutes. Dunn is better offensively than Dermott, but Dermott has been more productive than Dunn at 5v5.

Dermott also had the same ridiculous analytical numbers when he was sheltered to the degree Dunn has been. The same thing happens with a couple highly sheltered 3rd-pairing D on here every year. The same group of people go gaga for them and then forget about them 2 years later when it is realized that their analytics numbers were only due to extreme sheltering and they can't handle heavier deployment.

You will probably find the odd poster on here who will "offer" a first plus, but no GM will because they live in reality.

Its obvious you are just a bhurt troll. Everyobe sees it now. Good day
 

Colt55

Registered User
Sep 28, 2017
6,786
1,437
st. Louis
Why do people still think offer sheets are going to be a thing?

If the Blues are looking to trade Dunn then he’ll be gone at the draft. So any ideas that you can wait about and offer sheet him in that situation is a non-starter. That’s before we talk about the more general problems with the idea of offer sheeting him.

Very good point
 

Colt55

Registered User
Sep 28, 2017
6,786
1,437
st. Louis
You mentioned Edmundson more than anyone else and then got in a huff when I finally responded to your repeatedly lies that he was out all the time with Edmundson.

"But it's way more difficult when he's paired out there with Edmundson, Faulk, or Bortuzzo"

"What I'm talking about is going out there with cement skates, turnover machine Edmundson or Faulk who has trouble with even the idea of defense at times"

"Imagine acting like pairing with Faulk or Edmundson is an easy assignment. To think the staff "doesn't trust him" when they play him every game, versus Edmundson and Gunnar"



As I do with most D who the analytics community develops a fetish around, I specifically watched a couple games to see how Dunn played - it was around Christmas time. As I was only watching the segments in which he played over 2 or 3 consecutive games and he did not play a lot it didn't take up too much time. If I remember correctly the Blues won all the games and he barely touched the ice when good opposing players were out there. McDavid, Drai, MacKinnon, I can't remember if there was a third game....maybe Kane. He's not a bad D, but was still often shaky defensively against sheltered competition, and he is almost 24, with three complete seasons of third pairing deployment on a team that has weak LHDs ahead of him. That doesn't get you a first.
So you admit you don't know what you are talking about. Thanks for confirmation.
 

aufheben

#Norris4Fox
Jan 31, 2013
53,444
27,139
New Jersey
So far the nyi 1st and logan brown is the bid to beat.
Are the Islanders actually interested in Dunn? I know the Rangers are.

The Islanders don’t have a 2020 1st. They have Pelech-Toews-Leddy down the left side. Dunn doesn’t really fit Lou’s MO either.

The Rangers have two 2020 1sts. Their left side is a black hole. Gorton has a history of going after young defensemen.
 

Colt55

Registered User
Sep 28, 2017
6,786
1,437
st. Louis
Are the Islanders actually interested in Dunn? I know the Rangers are.

The Islanders don’t have a 2020 1st. They have Pelech-Toews-Leddy down the left side. Dunn doesn’t really fit Lou’s MO either.

The Rangers have two 2020 1sts. Their left side is a black hole. Gorton has a history of going after young defensemen.
That offer is from ottawa
 

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