[VIDEO] Wayne Gretzky: Legends Series Ep.1 (1985): A Look At What Made Him Great (17 G, 47 P, 18 GP)

Minar

Registered User
Aug 27, 2018
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Regarding Gretzky, all you can so is compare him to the peers of his day. He was head and shoulders way beyond any of his peers from 1979 to 1988. There isn't a player in today's league who has done that. McDavid and Crosby get outscored by other players on their own team even. Gretzky was sometimes nearly 100 pts ahead of the next guy. Who does does that today? And supposedly Gretzky with today's equipment, training and knowledge of today's game wouldnt be great today? Give me a break.
 

WarriorOfGandhi

Was saying Boo-urns
Jul 31, 2007
20,568
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Denver, CO
I score a goal and an assist in my beer league and I buy pizza and pitchers for hours afterwards. Gretzky scores a goal and an assist in the NHL and calls it a sub-par night. Madness.
 

Video Nasty

Registered User
Mar 12, 2017
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The way some people talk about games in the past, I can tell they’re influenced by not having it in crystal clear HD.

Maybe it’s just the average hockey fan. The only fans of a sport to consistently prop their own current guys up and shit all over their own past. Hell, there’s NBA games prior to 2009 that look terrible prior to the shift from analog to digital and no one is arguing that Kobe wouldn’t dominate today’s game in his late 90s/early 2000s form. That game has changed and yet people recognize that Jordan would probably be even greater today. They recognize that a player as great as Jordan would have effectively added a greater 3 point shot to his arsenal.

Yet elite hockey Hall of Famers would not even make the league today, give me a break. Gretzky and Lemieux wouldn’t make the rest of the league even more foolish with the red line rule removed? Like hello, where do think some of the game “being so fast today” comes from lol?

You have some here providing examples of NHL players who started their careers in the 1980s still playing at a high level up to the early-mid 00s, just a few years before Crosby and Ovechkin (some like Sakic putting up 100 points in his late 30s while they were in their early 20s). Players like Jagr putting up almost 70 points in his 40s while no one else but one player was cracking 90 points.

Yet I’m supposed to believe these players couldn’t hang today. It simply wasn’t a long time ago folks. Sure, things have changed, parts of the game have advanced and overall nutrition is better, but people just ignore great examples.
 
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Agent Zub

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Jan 2, 2015
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The way some people talk about games in the past, I can tell they’re influenced by not having it in crystal clear HD.

Maybe it’s just the average hockey fan. The only fans of a sport to consistently prop their own current guys up and shit all over their own past. Hell, there’s NBA games prior to 2009 that look terrible prior to the shift from analog to digital and no one is arguing that Kobe wouldn’t dominate today’s game in his late 90s/early 2000s form. That game has changed and yet people recognize that Jordan would probably be even greater today. They recognize that a player as great as Jordan would have effectively added a greater 3 point shot to his arsenal.

Yet elite hockey Hall of Famers would not even make the league today, give me a break. Gretzky and Lemieux wouldn’t make the rest of the league even more foolish with the red line rule removed? Like hello, where do think some of the game “being so fast today” comes from lol?

You have some here providing examples of NHL players who started their careers in the 1980s still playing at a high level up to the early-mid 00s, just a few years before Crosby and Ovechkin (some like Sakic putting up 100 points in his late 30s while they were in their early 20s). Players like Jagr putting up almost 70 points in his 40s while no one else but one player was cracking 90 points.

Yet I’m supposed to believe these players couldn’t hang today. It simply wasn’t a long time ago folks. Sure, things have changed, parts of the game have advanced and overall nutrition is better, but people just ignore great examples.

Again the top end players would be fine. It's the average 3rd and 4th liners from that era who couldn't skate or play proper defence aside from hooking and slashing that wouldn't be able to hang in the modern NHL.
 

authentic

Registered User
Jan 28, 2015
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Aha. With those sticks and skates, with the red line and hooks, and with Potvin, Stevens, and Messier looking to take their heads off. Yup.

Easily. They're way better hockey players than anyone was in the 80s.
 

authentic

Registered User
Jan 28, 2015
25,409
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The way some people talk about games in the past, I can tell they’re influenced by not having it in crystal clear HD.

Maybe it’s just the average hockey fan. The only fans of a sport to consistently prop their own current guys up and shit all over their own past. Hell, there’s NBA games prior to 2009 that look terrible prior to the shift from analog to digital and no one is arguing that Kobe wouldn’t dominate today’s game in his late 90s/early 2000s form. That game has changed and yet people recognize that Jordan would probably be even greater today. They recognize that a player as great as Jordan would have effectively added a greater 3 point shot to his arsenal.

Yet elite hockey Hall of Famers would not even make the league today, give me a break. Gretzky and Lemieux wouldn’t make the rest of the league even more foolish with the red line rule removed? Like hello, where do think some of the game “being so fast today” comes from lol?

You have some here providing examples of NHL players who started their careers in the 1980s still playing at a high level up to the early-mid 00s, just a few years before Crosby and Ovechkin (some like Sakic putting up 100 points in his late 30s while they were in their early 20s). Players like Jagr putting up almost 70 points in his 40s while no one else but one player was cracking 90 points.

Yet I’m supposed to believe these players couldn’t hang today. It simply wasn’t a long time ago folks. Sure, things have changed, parts of the game have advanced and overall nutrition is better, but people just ignore great examples.

Who here said Gretzky and Lemieux couldn't hang today?
 

authentic

Registered User
Jan 28, 2015
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Whatever you say, chief.
Ancient Jagr and Sakic were only a step behind prime Crosby. And they were no Gretzky and Lemieux.

All these players had their peaks at different times. The skill level has increased as time has gone on.
 

authentic

Registered User
Jan 28, 2015
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And the players thirty years from now are all going to be WAY better than the Crosby's and McDavid's of today, right?

You seem kind of obsessed with cross-generational comparisons.

Yes they will be if history is any indication. I just don't get how some people don't realize it that's all.
 

umma gumma

Registered User
Apr 8, 2005
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No we don't, but we know they're better as they are is my point. We don't know how either would do in either situation (though a lot of people here pretend to know) but we know Crosby and McDavid as they are are better hockey players.
But you have to allow the pendulum to swing the other way as well, it only wings one way for you.

Are hockey players better because of when they were born, having all the facts about nutrition, having all of the programs growing up to help you polish your skill set, modern equipment that is so much lighter (even for youths), and having more stars to draw inspiration from? Its not as simple as 'oh, if they went back today they'd be better'.

Seriously, if I went back in time I could teach Da Vinci quite a bit about electricity and flight, that doesn't make me smarter. But what could Da Vinci accomplish today with all of the available resources? People today aren't necessarily smarter than they were 30 or 100 years ago, its just that the world is older so there is more knowledge available. Conversely, what could Gretzky accomplish if he grew up today with all of the modern training and equipment, nutrition, no red line, no hooking, a less physical NHL etc...he would be far and away the best player.
 
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Beukeboom

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Apr 1, 2007
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He was officially a centerman, but played more like a winger. He generated many opportunities as a result of odd-man rushes and quick counter attacks, and he knew that he could draw numerous opponents towards him to create space for teammates. He understood how to take advantage of primitive defensive systems and ill-prepared defenders with pivots, turns, and unorthodox behavior.

There are a lot of signature Gretzky plays in this package, including his button hook, his slap shot fake, his two-on-ones, etc.

The plays in this package are sequenced in a specific manner so as to illustrate his usual types of plays and positioning. There are clips where he exits the defensive zone early and that's all that happens, specifically to show that he usually did exactly that. There are other clips where he spends time setting up plays, weaves around, carries the puck into the offensive zone, dodges a check, or chips the puck up to a teammate who is speeding up the ice. Not every play results in a goal.

This is not a goal reel; it's a concise look at his average shifts and his tendencies to give viewers a sense of what his shift-to-shift contributions were.
I agree that it showcases a lot of his behaviours and if you made the video yourself, well done! If not, thanks for posting. I love watching these old clips. The issue however, is that HF-boards outside of the history forum consists of a lot of 15-25year olds (and many older as well) who simply can't isolate talent/skills etc from a time period. They are also so used to high quality highlightreels that they can't appreciate one that includes mistakes and faulty passes.

For this reason, I think a video showing what made Gretzky so great has to be a bit more modern. Perhaps the 14 minute highlight reel of all Gretzky's and Lemieux's points from Canada Cup 87. It's on youtube for people to see. I think it's just easier to digest for the more modern fans. There's also the LA Kings vs Toronto conference final from 1993, where a 32 year old Wayne completely dominates in a more modern setting.

There are some great games from the early 80's, and they sure are fast at times. But this one in particular looks very sloppy even by the old standards imo. It might very well be due to the fact it's the finals after a long long season.
 

The Panther

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Mar 25, 2014
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Seriously, if I went back in time I could teach Da Vinci quite a bit about electricity and flight, that doesn't make me smarter. But what could Da Vinci accomplish today with all of the available resources? People today aren't necessarily smarter than they were 30 or 100 years ago, its just that the world is older so there is more knowledge available. Conversely, what could Gretzky accomplish if he grew up today with all of the modern training and equipment, nutrition, no red line, no hooking, a less physical NHL etc...he would be far and away the best player.
I agree with your post, but it seems like this is what you think Gretzky looked like when holding his hockey stick:
48845065-illustration-of-a-neanderthal-man-or-caveman-standing-carrying-spanner-on-shoulder-set-on-isolated-w.jpg


Seriously, people, the 90s is not that long ago. And people haven't evolved.
 

Kranix

Deranged Homer
Jun 27, 2012
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I wish Wayne's jofa was still CSA approved and guys wore it in the league
 

Aceboogie

Registered User
Aug 25, 2012
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In 30 years people will watch highlights of McDavid and say he wasn’t that good because no one in the league could skate or play defence.

The league and its players get better over the decades, its inevitable. In 15 years, the average skater will have the skating ability that today wed consider upper-tier ability. Players back in the 80s rarely, if ever, trained in the off-season and did very little skill training in their teens. Today, kids in Novice are doing skill training and its massive in the older leagues

McDavid/Crosby to me are the most skilled players that have ever lived (plus about 20 of the best players from the past 10 years are). When I am 50, the players then will be much better than McDavid/Crosby. Its inevitable, and its ok to admit that the league gets better
 
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Aceboogie

Registered User
Aug 25, 2012
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Regarding Gretzky, all you can so is compare him to the peers of his day. He was head and shoulders way beyond any of his peers from 1979 to 1988. There isn't a player in today's league who has done that. McDavid and Crosby get outscored by other players on their own team even. Gretzky was sometimes nearly 100 pts ahead of the next guy. Who does does that today? And supposedly Gretzky with today's equipment, training and knowledge of today's game wouldnt be great today? Give me a break.

A lot of the guys in the league in the 80s were legitimately minor league caliber players. They were just allowing in Euros to the NHL, so a lot of depth players in the 80s were North Americans who would soon be out of a job once much better players came in from other countries. This is something not talked about that much

It was also much worse in pre 80s hockey (60s/70s), as you had next to no foreign players, and even Americans were few and far between. So it was mostly Canadian players only

Ofcourse top players from 2000s till now wont be outscoring their companions by the similar gaps. They are competing against much better players that have come in from Russia/Euro leagues. What does the top scorers list look like without foreign players. No Draisaitl/Kucherov/Panarin/Pastranak/Malkin etc
 
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Aceboogie

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Aug 25, 2012
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In 20 years, there will be top players from Asian countries, more payers from non-traditional US markets etc. Pre 90s you had massive, massive gaps in talent. It was the top players vs "scrubs" essentially. Every decade that skill gap decreases as the depth players get better and better. There is more competition from more markets, and there is more focus on skill for those players.
 
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umma gumma

Registered User
Apr 8, 2005
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I agree with your post, but it seems like this is what you think Gretzky looked like when holding his hockey stick:
48845065-illustration-of-a-neanderthal-man-or-caveman-standing-carrying-spanner-on-shoulder-set-on-isolated-w.jpg


Seriously, people, the 90s is not that long ago. And people haven't evolved.
Not really, Wayne shoots left. :sarcasm:

You know, its crazy to think about the resources available to kids growing up in the 60s wanting to be hockey players compared to what's available in the 2000's. There are so many more opportunities and avenues that allow one to improve. 15 year old hockey players are much better athletes than 15 year olds back in the day because of it.
 

MessierII

Registered User
Aug 10, 2011
27,646
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The league and its players get better over the decades, its inevitable. In 15 years, the average skater will have the skating ability that today wed consider upper-tier ability. Players back in the 80s rarely, if ever, trained in the off-season and did very little skill training in their teens. Today, kids in Novice are doing skill training and its massive in the older leagues

McDavid/Crosby to me are the most skilled players that have ever lived (plus about 20 of the best players from the past 10 years are). When I am 50, the players then will be much better than McDavid/Crosby. Its inevitable, and its ok to admit that the league gets better
I have a tough time believing Jagr was better in his 40’s a few years ago than he was at 20 in 92.
 
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