Player Discussion: Victor Hedman

[These Are The Days]

It's hard to put a guy in Lidstrom's tier before his career is over, because Lidstrom just went for so long, virtually mistake-free. I don't think we're anywhere near the point where we can put Hedman in a conversation for top-10 all-time, but we might get there someday if he keeps this up.

So I don't think he can quite be compared to Lidstrom in terms of legacy (style is a different thing), but I do think he's the best defenseman SINCE Lidstrom, and the best of his generation, which includes Erik Karlsson.

Heddy has a long ways to go but playing as if he was a top 10 all time like he is now is a good start. Lidstrom was just so special because it just never stopped. Hedman could be forgiven if he didn't keep this up.


At worst we'll say of Hedman he played at a level that eclipsed his peers and was "this close" to Lidstrom level effectiveness during this playoff run

 

[TeslaCoilFan]

This seems fitting right now. From an old ASG poster...

 

[These Are The Days]

My god, I could watch this on an endless loop.

Seeing Victor alone in space just gives him such a man-among-boys quality.

That sequence is like watching Paul Coffey in the Oiler years

 

[DFC]

Heddy has a long ways to go but playing as if he was a top 10 all time like he is now is a good start. Lidstrom was just so special because it just never stopped. Hedman could be forgiven if he didn't keep this up.


At worst we'll say of Hedman he played at a level that eclipsed his peers and was "this close" to Lidstrom level effectiveness during this playoff run

In terms of this run, I don't think there's much difference between this and what Lidstrom did at his best, honestly. I think that's why it "feels" so... big? The last time I saw a defenseman play at this level, all-around, was Lidstrom. I mean, it's been a while, and I was like Dom's age at the time, but I don't think Lidstrom was this dominant in 2002 when he won the Conn Smyth. He was quietly great as always, but I don't think he was even the best player on the team for that run, and definitely not as overtly dominant as Hedman has been.

So I mean, I'll be the first to say that, even though Lidstrom has become this mythological creature among hockey fans, he absolutely WAS A MYTHOLOGICAL CREATURE! At the same time, it wasn't like he took over every single game and was the best player on the ice every night. He was just really, really good every night, and then sometimes he would be amazing for 20 games. But what Hedman's doing right now, in all honesty, is at the same level as those 20 amazing games Lidstrom could have. It's more the "really, really good" every single night part (well, most of them anyway, for like 15 years) that separates Lidstrom.

But if we win the cup, this Hedman performance will be remembered for what it is: legendary.

 

[These Are The Days]

In terms of this run, I don't think there's much difference between this and what Lidstrom did at his best, honestly. I think that's why it "feels" so... big? The last time I saw a defenseman play at this level, all-around, was Lidstrom. I mean, it's been a while, and I was like Dom's age at the time, but I don't think Lidstrom was this dominant in 2002 when he won the Conn Smyth. He was quietly great as always, but I don't think he was even the best player on the team for that run, and definitely not as overtly dominant as Hedman has been.

So I mean, I'll be the first to say that, even though Lidstrom has become this mythological creature among hockey fans, he absolutely WAS A MYTHOLOGICAL CREATURE! At the same time, it wasn't like he took over every single game and was the best player on the ice every night. He was just really, really good every night, and then sometimes he would be amazing for 20 games. But what Hedman's doing right now, in all honesty, is at the same level as those 20 amazing games Lidstrom could have. It's more the "really, really good" every single night part (well, most of them anyway, for like 15 years) that separates Lidstrom.

But if we win the cup, this Hedman performance will be remembered for what it is: legendary.

I don't know man..... we've been calling Heddy a mythological creature for some time now. Remembering him that way may be appropriate. If Hedman gets any more dominant he's gonna summon the Great Old One, bitch slap him and proceed to make fried calamari. And we tell the children "The Story Of That Time Victor Hedman Ate Cthulhu"


I mean it's really getting that special right now and I'm kinda freaking out that it's not hyperbole this time and it's actually happening to one of OUR guys. This kind of history is rare.

 

[DFC]

I don't know man..... we've been calling Heddy a mythological creature for some time now. Remembering him that way may be appropriate. If Hedman gets any more dominant he's gonna summon the Great Old One, bitch slap him and proceed to make fried calamari. And we tell the children "The Story Of That Time Victor Hedman Ate Cthulhu"


I mean it's really getting that special right now and I'm kinda freaking out that it's not hyperbole this time and it's actually happening to one of OUR guys. This kind of history is rare.

When you can time the best stretch of your career with the most important games your team plays, it's a big deal. We wouldn't be talking like this if it was January during an extended road trip or something.

I'm not saying he's been at Lidstrom's level for four years or anything. I don't think he has, because, like I said, with Lidstrom it was more about how few off-nights he had than how many dominant games he had. And Hedman hasn't risen to that level yet.

But I don't know if Lidstrom was ever this dominant in a single playoff run. I don't think he was in 2002, when he won the Conn Smyth, but, if I remember right, he had a monstrous SCF that year.

 

[The Gongshow]

Hedman been our best player and most important player for like 5 years now, but he's been on a whole other level these playoffs.

 

[21]

I have said it before but I got hunted, laughed at and humiliated, therefore I will state it again, Hedman is the best Swedish defenseman all time. The way he play, his presence on the ice, f*ck so good, amazing.

Seriously, would you pick Lidstrom ahead of Hedman if you only could pick one of them in a team? Hedman is the complete defenseman, his physical presence is also way superior comparing to Lidstrom. In Sweden we value technical finesse highly, yes, also what Lidstrom did in the Olympics will never ever be forgotten, but you can't close your eyes for what Hedman is doing for the entire team, he is a leader out there, dominant.

I tell you, if Roman Josi is better than Hedman he has to be really f*cking amazing.

Norris Trophy, well, the Cup is more important.

 

[These Are The Days]

I have said it before but I got hunted, laughed at and humiliated, therefore I will state it again, Hedman is the best Swedish defenseman all time. The way he play, his presence on the ice, f*ck so good, amazing.

Seriously, would you pick Lidstrom ahead of Hedman if you only could pick one of them in a team? Hedman is the complete defenseman, his physical presence is also way superior comparing to Lidstrom. In Sweden we value technical finesse highly, yes, also what Lidstrom did in the Olympics will never ever be forgotten, but you can't close your eyes for what Hedman is doing for the entire team, he is a leader out there, dominant.

I tell you, if Roman Josi is better than Hedman he has to be really f*cking amazing.

Norris Trophy, well, the Cup is more important.

It's nice to see someone who loves Hedman just as much as we do but Lidstrom transcends his nationality. If it weren't for some guy named Bobby Orr it's not impossible he'd be up for the running as GOAT defenseman. As for Hedman let's just get the big guy past Borje Salming in points (or at least very close to it) before we talk about him being a GOAT Swedish defender.

 

[Sky04]

Hedman's only been great for 5 years, let's pump the brakes before we look like Ottawa fans comparing Karlsson to Orr.

 

[DFC]

I have said it before but I got hunted, laughed at and humiliated, therefore I will state it again, Hedman is the best Swedish defenseman all time. The way he play, his presence on the ice, f*ck so good, amazing.

Seriously, would you pick Lidstrom ahead of Hedman if you only could pick one of them in a team? Hedman is the complete defenseman, his physical presence is also way superior comparing to Lidstrom. In Sweden we value technical finesse highly, yes, also what Lidstrom did in the Olympics will never ever be forgotten, but you can't close your eyes for what Hedman is doing for the entire team, he is a leader out there, dominant.

I tell you, if Roman Josi is better than Hedman he has to be really f*cking amazing.

Norris Trophy, well, the Cup is more important.

Yeah, you still have to pick Lidstrom. Hedman is rising to a legendary level, and I think he's at a point where he deserves comparisons to legendary players, but he has to keep it up for a while yet.

I think Hedman is more capable of dominating a game than Lidstrom was, but with Lidstrom it was more about how rarely he was bad, and how a bad night for him wasn't even all that bad.

I'm not sure how great Hedman has to be to justify the comparison. I think he's a lock for the HOF now, and, when you're a lock for the HOF at 29, you're probably gonna go down as a top-100 player at your position all time. But if we're talking top-5 or maybe 8, the bar is really, really high.

 

[Sky04]

Yeah, you still have to pick Lidstrom. Hedman is rising to a legendary level, and I think he's at a point where he deserves comparisons to legendary players, but he has to keep it up for a while yet.

I think Hedman is more capable of dominating a game than Lidstrom was, but with Lidstrom it was more about how rarely he was bad, and how a bad night for him wasn't even all that bad.

I'm not sure how great Hedman has to be to justify the comparison. I think he's a lock for the HOF now, and, when you're a lock for the HOF at 29, you're probably gonna go down as a top-100 player at your position all time. But if we're talking top-5 or maybe 8, the bar is really, really high.

He's not a lock for the HOF though, he has 1 Norris, no cup, no CS, a .62PPG rate and only 5 good seasons as an elite defenseman. He does not have a HOF resume right now, also it seems like people are projecting the current Hedman as if he's been playing at this playoff level for the last 5 years when he hasn't, the Hedman right now is probably at his absolute best. Last year was pretty shaky by his standards, 2018 was dominant and 2017 despite the point totals I believe we were all criticizing his overall play (I fondly remember a consensus that he didn't deserve the Norris that year)

He needs more hardware to be a lock and to go down as one of the best he needs at least another 5 years of similar play, if the current Hedman right now who seems to have everything put together is the Hedman we see going forward then yeah he'll be all time great but you still need to go out there and do it for an extended time. Lidstrom's amazing reputation as you noted is because he play was consistent for over a decade, the first time he was a finalist for the Norris was in 1998 and the last time was when he won in 2011, 15 years of great, consistent play, Hedman is at 1/3rd of that.

 

[DFC]

He's not a lock for the HOF though, he has 1 Norris, no cup, no CS, a .62PPG rate and only 5 good seasons as an elite defenseman. He does not have a HOF resume right now, also it seems like people are projecting the current Hedman as if he's been playing at this playoff level for the last 5 years when he hasn't, the Hedman right now is probably at his absolute best. Last year was pretty shaky by his standards, 2018 was dominant and 2017 despite the point totals I believe we were all criticizing his overall play (I fondly remember a consensus that he didn't deserve the Norris that year and non of us were really fig)

2017 he turned a corner around mid-year and became a beast down the stretch. Early on that year he was putting up numbers, but pretty shaky in his own end.

He needs more hardware to be a lock and to go down as one of the best he needs at least another 5 years of similar play, if the current Hedman right now who seems to have everything put together is the Hedman we see going forward then yeah he'll be all time great but you still need to go out there and do it for an extended time. Lidstrom's amazing reputation as you noted is because he play was consistent for over a decade, the first time he was a finalist for the Norris was in 1998 and the last time was 2011.

The Hedman we're seeing right now is probably an impossible level to maintain throughout regular seasons. Lidstrom was more about not playing bad, or being consistently "very good," than he was about dominating. He did dominate, but it wasn't all that often. Like, a quiet night for Hedman right now, when he's playing well, would be pretty close to what Lidstrom was all the time.

I agree that if Hedman retired today he wouldn't be a HOF lock. I was thinking more like if he starts declining today, I think he would be a lock, because he's spent 5 years as one of the best Dmen in the league, and two years as pretty much the consensus (at least according to player polls) top guy. Even if he falls out of the top-10 from here until he falls apart, I don't see any way he doesn't get in, even if he doesn't add any more hardware. His end-of-year AS votes put him in pretty rare company, relative to his peers.

 

[Stormbreaker]

 

[21]

Firing home yet another in this 2020 postseason (the winner in a 5-2 @TBLightning defeat of the Stars tonight), Victor Hedman continues to make a substantial case for the Conn Smythe Trophy as he's now just the 3rd to reach double digits in goals on this #StanleyCup Playoff list

Amazing, he is for sure my favorit defenseman all time even though it's a tight race. I'm not only considering stats, it's my personal view and I simply love how he plays the game, he is such a complete player, the fact he is tall and strong helps too (great presence on the ice, looking like a leader on ice).

When Hedman has self confidence like now he is a monster.

 

[DFC]

The really beautiful thing here is those two names above him were basically forwards who sometimes played the point, in eras where guys we don't remember scored 60, 70, 80 points. Hedman is putting up ALL TIME numbers in goals, while being about as dominant defensively as anybody I've ever seen.

It wouldn't even be believable if we weren't seeing it. This is special and we're gonna someday be those old guys talking about how "players nowadays" can't possibly compare to the legendary Victor Hedman.

 

[21]

The really beautiful thing here is those two names above him were basically forwards who sometimes played the point, in eras where guys we don't remember scored 60, 70, 80 points. Hedman is putting up ALL TIME numbers in goals, while being about as dominant defensively as anybody I've ever seen.

It wouldn't even be believable if we weren't seeing it. This is special and we're gonna someday be those old guys talking about how "players nowadays" can't possibly compare to the legendary Victor Hedman.

Hedman is smart on the ice, I assume the majority (points) are from power play not taking huge defensive risks?

Imaging facing a guy like Hedman when playing hockey, a huge tall guy mastering all aspects off the game, a true "wtf" experience. ;-)

 

[The Macho King]

Hedman is smart on the ice, I assume the majority (points) are from power play not taking huge defensive risks?

Imaging facing a guy like Hedman when playing hockey, a huge tall guy mastering all aspects off the game, a true "wtf" experience. ;-)

6 goals at even strength.

Hedman takes risks, he is very active in the OZ and on the rush. He is just a good enough skater to get back before it burns him.

 

[RussianGuyovich]

hedman in these finals reminds me of duncan keith in the 2015 finals. just everywhere, and will constantly disrupt opposing offenses and create offense in return.

i hated duncan keith and love hedman, life is a land of contrasts.

 

[Peacefool]

I think it was a game saver from Hedman,when he stoped Guryanov on 1on1 breakaway! What a smart play by Hedman!!

 

[BoltzManConstant]

Very well put.

Defenseman scoring is so era-specific it's crazy. The top 5 guys (Bourque, Coffey, MacInnis, Housley and Murphy) were all born in the five year period from 1960 to 1964. Leetch was born in '68.

That said, it wasn't just D scoring that was nuts in that era, of course. Three of the top five forwards in all-time scoring were born in that same '60-'64 range.

 

[The Macho King]

Very well put.

Defenseman scoring is so era-specific it's crazy. The top 5 guys (Bourque, Coffey, MacInnis, Housley and Murphy) were all born in the five year period from 1960 to 1964. Leetch was born in '68.

That said, it wasn't just D scoring that was nuts in that era, of course. Three of the top five forwards in all-time scoring were born in that same '60-'64 range.

Housley and Murphy are in your top 5?

Jesus... that's... an opinion I guess.

I mean, MacInnis and Coffey as well but less so.

Edit: I may have mistaken your intent with that post. Disregard.

 

[PatrikBerglund]

Lidstrom (against his peers) was better offensively AND defensively, than Hedman has been.

Granted, the overall level of the players/competition is higher today that during Nick's prime years.

Lidstrom was basically a stay at home defenceman with incredible passes and a very accurate point shot, which gave him a lot of points.

One of the, perhaps even THE smartest player of all time, if you view both defence and offence.

But again, it's much harder to "stand out" from the rest in today's NHL, since the league is way more evenly matched.

If Hedman can keep this level of play up for another 5-6 years, he can solidify his position as the #2 best Swedish defenceman of all time.

Will never eclipse Lidstrom.

 

[DFC]

Lidstrom (against his peers) was better offensively AND defensively, than Hedman has been.

Granted, the overall level of the players/competition is higher today that during Nick's prime years.

Lidstrom was basically a stay at home defenceman with incredible passes and a very accurate point shot, which gave him a lot of points.

One of the, perhaps even THE smartest player of all time, if you view both defence and offence.

But again, it's much harder to "stand out" from the rest in today's NHL, since the league is way more evenly matched.

If Hedman can keep this level of play up for another 5-6 years, he can solidify his position as the #2 best Swedish defenceman of all time.

Will never eclipse Lidstrom.

You're mythologizing him. Which is fair, to an extent. Lidstrom is one of the best defensemen of all time, and he was better than Hedman. That said, Lidstrom never dominated a post-season like Hedman is doing right now. If Hedman were to keep up this level of play for 5-6 years, which I don't think is possible, we'd be talking about a different tier.

 

[BoltzManConstant]

Housley and Murphy are in your top 5?

Jesus... that's... an opinion I guess.

I mean, MacInnis and Coffey as well but less so.

Edit: I may have mistaken your intent with that post. Disregard.

Yeah, to clarify -- I was talking purely in terms of point totals, not quality of play.

I was trying to amplify DFC's comment, but I see now that I failed to quote it:

The really beautiful thing here is those two names above him were basically forwards who sometimes played the point, in eras where guys we don't remember scored 60, 70, 80 points. Hedman is putting up ALL TIME numbers in goals, while being about as dominant defensively as anybody I've ever seen.

That's my bad.

Anyway, below are the numbers I was looking at. And to restate my point -- it's crazy how much D scoring spike in the 80s and 90s, and you can really see it when you consider that the top 5 D men in career points were all born between 1960 and 1964. And it really speaks to the specialness of Victor's postseason when you consider the only two D men to outscore what he's done this year did it in that era of points explosion, and without playing his shutdown defense.