OT: Via Twitter poll, Franco Aquilini wants to know if Bo Horvat should get the captaincy

clunk

Registered User
Dec 10, 2015
11,343
5,417
I'm gonna..
oh I was having a nice day away from the Internet yesterday, and somebody texted this to me. I thought it was a joke. As pointed out earlier in this thread, nobody should be confused as to who's in charge of the day to day operations of this team.

And the current situation is much, much worse than the Keenan-Messier era.
Yeah, not even close honestly. The Messier situation was pretty overrated imo. He was a dick for asking for Maki's number, sure, but I also feel like he had the right to ask for his number, since it was essentially his brand. I don't feel that he purposely 'played bad' (didn't even play that bad, just regressed imo). Nor do I feel that he 'demanded' the captaincy (Trevor gave it to him). Suing the Canucks shouldn't draw any vitriol from Vancouver fans. Does the average person really care if the Canucks' owners lose a few million dollars? Literally makes no difference to anything. I honestly didn't mind him that much at all. It's all overblown, imo. I didn't like him when he was on the Rags, but I didn't think he was a terrible player for us. Trevor didn't have to give him the captaincy and the Canucks didn't have to offer him big money to come here.

Messier's time here actually had fantastic future results. The Linden trade was an amazing haul for the Canucks long term, and many take issue with the fact Messier and Keenan 'pushed him out', but it had great results for us. Keenan was a prick, but he was NOT worse than Jim Benning. Not one trade Benning has made even comes close to the value we got for Linden. A lot of the hate for Keenan comes from his little feud with Trevor Linden, and publicly calling him out (and his time with the Rags of course, but i dont feel that's a valid reason to vilify him).

I feel like the personality cult of Trevor Linden has stirred up this Messier hate much more than what Messier did himself, and I feel a lot of people, especially on /r/Canucks, use it as a way of signalling that they are 'true Canucks fans' or something, who have 'braved the worst years' etc. I guarantee a lot of them weren't even following the team or alive when Messier was here, which makes it all that much more ridiculous.

This Jim Benning era is absolutely the worst in organizational history. Nothing comes close.

I feel like if Canucks fans lost their hard on for Trevor Linden (his time here as president definitely helped), the Messier years won't seem nearly as bad as what we're going through now.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Carnal

I am toxic

. . . even in small doses
Oct 24, 2014
9,352
14,635
Vancouver
Arguing which is worse - the Benning years or the Keenan/Messier years.

Good times. Good times indeed.

Anyway, the mid 80's were worse. So there.
 
  • Like
Reactions: vanarchy

MS

1%er
Mar 18, 2002
53,362
83,418
Vancouver, BC
If this Twitter poll is for real and Aquilini is really polling the fans on who should be captain of the Canucks, then it just about confirms everything the alarmists were saying about a meddlesome owner who knows absolutely nothing about hockey, but insists on micro-managing. Truly troubling and depressing, if true.

Not much wonder Linden just walked away, and both Lombardi and Holland turned two-thumbs down on this joke of a franchise. Benning is the perfect, malleable shill of a GM for this ownership. They deserve each other. My God it's hard to be a Canucks fan sometimes.

It's absurd. It's only a half-step away from having the owner go on Twitter asking who the starting goalie should be on opening night.

Captaincy is an internal dressing room issue to be decided by management, coaches, and players. It isn't a popularity contest for the fans.

[MOD]
 
Last edited by a moderator:
  • Like
Reactions: Carnal

Iron Mike Sharpe

Registered User
Dec 6, 2017
945
1,118
Aqua is turning into Trump.
Could you imagine back in the day if guys like Harold Ballard or Peter Pocklington had access to Twitter? Yikes.
 

Hollywood Burrows

Registered User
Jan 23, 2009
5,543
2,803
EAST VANCOUVER
the keenan-messier debacle was the result of a new owner spending big to make a splash. I'll take that over Aqua's budget operation staffed by morons any day of the week.
 

MS

1%er
Mar 18, 2002
53,362
83,418
Vancouver, BC
Even if I were to be in my most critical mood and refer to the current regime as completely incompetent bumbling buffoons, it still wouldn’t compare to the Messier/Keenan years. Not only was the team being run by incompetent, bumbling buffoons, but there was a myriad of other issues as well.

1. The alienation of the franchise’s first true star player in Pavel Bure reached its peak and demanded a trade.

2. There was no young talent even remotely comparable to Horvat, Boeser or Pettersson for Canuck fans to be excited over - it was barren.

3. The economy didn’t help. Relocation rumors and threats were very real - there’s a reason Brian Burke said “all it takes to move this team is a quarter and a phone call”.

And that’s not even really talking about how Keenan and Messier pretty much worked to rip the heart out of this team and it’s fanbase. If that wasn’t planned, then it sure came off as though it was.

I’m not a fan of our current management team or the direction they are taking. And this is certainly the worst post-Keenan time we have had. But all that said, it’s still not even close to as bad as the Keenan and Messier days.

This is far, far worse than the Messier years.

Messier was here for 3 years, and by the 3rd year he was kind of marginalized, Burke had stabilized the team and we were improving, and everyone knew he was leaving at the end of the year. So it was basically two years of chaos. This is going into year 6 of this disaster.

And there was young talent. For half the Messier years, we had all of Ohlund, Jovanovski, McCabe, and Aucoin on the team - four guys who would be #1 defenders for the better part of the 2000s. It was probably the best young blueline group in the NHL, and had a top-5 pick in Bryan Allen waiting in the wings. And the Sedins were incoming for the last year of Messier's tenure.

The big difference is that there was an end date on the Messier stuff. You knew he was only here 3 years. And you knew Keenan wouldn't last long. This .... god only knows how long Aquilini and Benning will be here.
 

Mr. Canucklehead

Kitimat Canuck
Dec 14, 2002
39,961
29,757
Kitimat, BC
This is far, far worse than the Messier years.

Messier was here for 3 years, and by the 3rd year he was kind of marginalized, Burke had stabilized the team and we were improving, and everyone knew he was leaving at the end of the year. So it was basically two years of chaos. This is going into year 6 of this disaster.

And there was young talent. For half the Messier years, we had all of Ohlund, Jovanovski, McCabe, and Aucoin on the team - four guys who would be #1 defenders for the better part of the 2000s. It was probably the best young blueline group in the NHL, and had a top-5 pick in Bryan Allen waiting in the wings. And the Sedins were incoming for the last year of Messier's tenure.

The big difference is that there was an end date on the Messier stuff. You knew he was only here 3 years. And you knew Keenan wouldn't last long. This .... god only knows how long Aquilini and Benning will be here.

I respect your opinion a great deal, but I completely disagree that this is far worse than that era. I'll grant that once Burke took over yes, things did start to get better even while Messier was still here. The Keenan days were the worst.

Ohlund, Jovanovski, McCabe and Aucoin were and continued to be solid NHL players that had a few legitimately excellent seasons at their peak. But as young prospects to build a team around, I wouldn't put any of them in the same class as Boeser or Pettersson - Horvat perhaps.
 

Wilch

Unregistered User
Mar 29, 2010
12,224
487
It's absurd. It's only a half-step away from having the owner go on Twitter asking who the starting goalie should be on opening night.

Captaincy is an internal dressing room issue to be decided by management, coaches, and players. It isn't a popularity contest for the fans.

[MOD]


My guess is if this team looks completely hopeless for the next 5-7 years and is strapped with too many god awful contracts, he may consider selling. Essentially, the business would have to be gushing blood and losing an obscene amount of money. I've done my share of not spending a dime on this franchise ever since Jimbo started Jimbo'ing - and showing our displeasure with not spending is pretty much all we can do.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
  • Like
Reactions: mratch19

MS

1%er
Mar 18, 2002
53,362
83,418
Vancouver, BC
I respect your opinion a great deal, but I completely disagree that this is far worse than that era. I'll grant that once Burke took over yes, things did start to get better even while Messier was still here. The Keenan days were the worst.

Ohlund, Jovanovski, McCabe and Aucoin were and continued to be solid NHL players that had a few legitimately excellent seasons at their peak. But as young prospects to build a team around, I wouldn't put any of them in the same class as Boeser or Pettersson - Horvat perhaps.

Again, it was 2 years. From the Messier signing in the summer of 1997 to the Sedin draft in 1999. By 1999-00, Messier was a marginalized, soon-to-depart figure on an improving team (25 point jump from 1998-99) that had itself together, and that year I don't classify as 'dark' any more.

Even if those 2 years were more insane and more poorly run, there's a point where 6 years of this is worse. And there's no end in sight. And that's what has me feeling so defeated as a fan. With these people running the team - and Aquilini could be running it for another 20 years and Benning could be here for another 5 if we fluke our way into the playoffs next year - there's no hope of anything really good happening. Zero hope of a championship or a legitimate contender. We're screwed.
 

John Johnson

Registered User
Apr 11, 2019
2,084
1,864
Even if this is a joke, it's pretty bush league... especially considering the person Frank is.

I am so conflicted honestly. I want the Canucks to win a cup very badly, but I also don't want to give Frank the satisfaction of having a winning team again. My desire for a cup outweighs that, which is why I'm still willing to follow this team while he's the owner, but I've been very close to just saying "**** it" and following the league more neutrally.
Dude are you Sam Hyde
 
  • Like
Reactions: clunk

Melvin

21/12/05
Sep 29, 2017
15,198
28,055
Montreal, QC
I respect your opinion a great deal, but I completely disagree that this is far worse than that era. I'll grant that once Burke took over yes, things did start to get better even while Messier was still here. The Keenan days were the worst.

Ohlund, Jovanovski, McCabe and Aucoin were and continued to be solid NHL players that had a few legitimately excellent seasons at their peak. But as young prospects to build a team around, I wouldn't put any of them in the same class as Boeser or Pettersson - Horvat perhaps.

This is sort of the peak/prime vs career debate in hall of fame discussions.

I think the lowest point of the Messier years was far worse than the lowest point of the Benning regime, but Ms is right that it was relatively short. There seems to be no end in sight to the garbage we are shuffling through now.
 

Disappointed EP40

Registered User
Jan 13, 2015
3,222
1,720
Why are they putting Bo Horvat thru this. and why is it Aquilini call who the Captain is ?

He owns the team.

I'm tired of people having the expectation on Aqualini that they wouldn't have on themselves.

If you owned the team, would you be involved? (I'm not suggesting you'd post a stupid twitter quiz, just that you can't fault the guy for being involved in the sports team he bloody well owns.)
 

Disappointed EP40

Registered User
Jan 13, 2015
3,222
1,720
I honestly dont mind this.

If Aquas & the GM were not so hated I doubt the response to a silly poll like this would be quite so severe.

Yes. If it wasn't such sour days, this would be pretty sweet. (Landslide vote for yes, then he makes Bo the captain, and everyone feels like they helped.)
 

Jyrki21

2021-12-05
Sponsor
Again, it was 2 years. From the Messier signing in the summer of 1997 to the Sedin draft in 1999. By 1999-00, Messier was a marginalized, soon-to-depart figure on an improving team (25 point jump from 1998-99) that had itself together, and that year I don't classify as 'dark' any more.

Even if those 2 years were more insane and more poorly run, there's a point where 6 years of this is worse. And there's no end in sight. And that's what has me feeling so defeated as a fan. With these people running the team - and Aquilini could be running it for another 20 years and Benning could be here for another 5 if we fluke our way into the playoffs next year - there's no hope of anything really good happening. Zero hope of a championship or a legitimate contender. We're screwed.
Yeah, maybe it's just because I was living the undergrad dream during the Messier years, but I would consider the present worse for a variety of reasons. It maybe doesn't look as bad on paper because there is a cap now with way more parity, making the Canucks look "closer" but that is just the structural background. But the way I see it:

1. Keenan wasn't even around for a full season, and Messier only played three. The current era has already been quite a bit longer. At least ownership quickly brought in Burke to correct their own mistakes.

2. If you want to hold up emerging young players as the current saving grace (a direct product of the team being bad despite not rebuilding), we had those then too. The Sedins caused quite a buzz, obviously, we got the emergence of Näslund, the beginnings of Bertuzzi, Allen at 4th overall (and technically Ference although I hated that pick immediately), youth coming back in the Bure swap, and a young defense corps of Jovanovski, McCabe, Öhlund and Aucoin that people were stoked for. The Canucks were awful in 1998-99 but there was already a very palpable sense of hope by the stretch drive. Even their most prominent veteran free-agent signing in Andrew Cassels helped propel the team forward and had a direct, positive impact right as the core was rounding into form.

3. That team pretty much needed to rebuild in any event, and Keenan's scorched earth approach – not really intentionally – actually helped pave the way. Trading Linden led to an outcry, but turned out to be a top-5 trade in team history and landed an asset to make the Sedin swap. Trading Mogilny led to Morrison. The aforementioned Bure trade brought in young assets. There was lots of horizontal roster churn too (particularly right after Keenan's arrival), but keep in mind this was also in a capless era with fewer teams, when "cycles" and "windows" and "tanking" were not nearly as well-defined, so it is significant that they did make some signifcant strides to reconstruct the team against that backdrop.

4. The current management, in spite of all track record, maintains the support of ownership and a ridiculously large chunk of the fanbase. The team could easily make the playoffs next year by fluke, injuries to rivals, whatever, and we could be stuck with even more of this.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Peter10

Seattle Totems

Registered User
Apr 14, 2010
3,891
1,131
What a dipshit f***ing moron this owner is.

You dont assign a captaincy based on a fan poll.

This is the exact opposite of strong ownership.
 

Hit the post

I have your gold medal Zippy!
Oct 1, 2015
22,288
14,030
Hiding under WTG's bed...
I respect your opinion a great deal, but I completely disagree that this is far worse than that era. I'll grant that once Burke took over yes, things did start to get better even while Messier was still here. The Keenan days were the worst.

Ohlund, Jovanovski, McCabe and Aucoin were and continued to be solid NHL players that had a few legitimately excellent seasons at their peak. But as young prospects to build a team around, I wouldn't put any of them in the same class as Boeser or Pettersson - Horvat perhaps.
Actually that might make an interesting discussion. Who would you have as a starting point? Ohlund, Jovocop, McCabe and Aucion or Horvat, EP, Boeser and Hughes. Would be a change of pace from Gillis vs Benning discussions. I know EP and the gang would sell more tickets but those Canuck blueliners won't get pushed around.
 
Last edited:

Seattle Totems

Registered User
Apr 14, 2010
3,891
1,131
This is sort of the peak/prime vs career debate in hall of fame discussions.

I think the lowest point of the Messier years was far worse than the lowest point of the Benning regime, but Ms is right that it was relatively short. There seems to be no end in sight to the garbage we are shuffling through now.

Keenan was only GM for 8 months. A lot of fans didnt like the Messier signing, and it was painful to watch some fan favourites leave, but the moves made during that era were not incompetent unlike nearly every move Benning has made.

Was the Messier era lower? I dont think. Fans may have stopped going to the games but the passion was there. Fans were still talking about the team. Under the Benning era the fans seem totally indifferent. People dont care about the Canucks like they used to.
 

Mr. Canucklehead

Kitimat Canuck
Dec 14, 2002
39,961
29,757
Kitimat, BC
Actually that might make an interesting discussion. Who would you have as a starting point? Ohlund, Jovocop, McCabe and Aucion or Horvat, EP, Boeser and Hughes. Would be a change of pace from Gillis vs Benning discussions. I know EP and the gang would sell more tickets but those Canuck blueliners won't get pushed around.

Moving Aucoin - who had inexplicably ended up in Crawford’s doghouse - for Cloutier is certainly a trade that I loathe more and more in retrospect. Burke did a lot of great things for the franchise, but the one glaring thing he never properly addressed was the goaltending.

McCabe being dealt as part of the package for the Twins is certainly an easy price to pay in retrospect, on the other side of the ledger.
 

Melvin

21/12/05
Sep 29, 2017
15,198
28,055
Montreal, QC
Keenan was only GM for 8 months. A lot of fans didnt like the Messier signing, and it was painful to watch some fan favourites leave, but the moves made during that era were not incompetent unlike nearly every move Benning has made.

Was the Messier era lower? I dont think. Fans may have stopped going to the games but the passion was there. Fans were still talking about the team. Under the Benning era the fans seem totally indifferent. People dont care about the Canucks like they used to.

I mean, there was actual talk of relocating the franchise and it included the trade of Pavel Bure (which wasn't their fault but still happened during the same time.) in terms of the competence or the on ice product, no it wasn't lower, but in terms of the misery of being a fan easy to argue that it was.

We also didn't have this place.
 
  • Like
Reactions: PuckMunchkin

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad

-->