GDT: VGK @ Wings

[chris05]

The more I watch the wings play the more comical it gets...... the results speak for themselves. Their coach Trashill believes competing hard is what it takes to win. Competing hard enough is no excuse to roster player who possess no skill no speed and more importantly no quickness. Hyping 20 minute a night players(#71) who are having a hard time keeping up in goals scored with a player like Riley Sheahan (4th line player for Pit)..... is an insult to "HOCKEY TOWN" fans intelligence . The 4th goal last night is a great indicator on what is terribly wrong with wings. DD had ample time to retrieve the puck... that play had forehand retrieval. Ask any Tyke Player...... a tyke player would have skated harder to the puck to generate more "time "......skating hard and looking over your shoulder simultaneously is a difficult task.....for below average players. Difficult athletic tasks come easy for players who possess any level of athletic abilities.... not that this was a difficult athletic task. Any time you can pick up the puck on your forehand....it is an automatic no brainer and an easy play to complete. So no HANDS DD elects to make a play with his backhand.....that is beyond a bone head play.........yet we elaborate on 39s mistakes.

So does that count as one strike on DD for not retrieving the puck or should we give him another strike for losing the puck battle after he earned strike one on the initial play. Usually players show greater compete level when they turn over the puck in an effort to regain the puck.

 

[Nut Upstrom]

I;m tired of the hero worship.

Z wants to call out Mantha? Fine.
That was a pretty pointed criticism of one guy on the team.
Never seen him do that before.

Z needs to man up and point criticism at other guys too.

Or else he's just a useless hypocrite.

Consistency matters with accountability.
You hold EVERYONE accountable, or nobody.

Lets not invent a narrative that never happened.

Z called out no one by name.
Z was very unhappy with the effort that some (plural) players gave last night and he never indicated that this was a problem pertaining to a single individual - that is something people like you are inventing to have something to cry about or to invent a false cause to champion.
Mantha is certainly included in that group of players and it is obvious Z was including him in that group of players.
The players who were lazy and half-assing it last night know who they are. They know that Z was talking to them or speaking of them in his post game comments.

I think his comments were spot on, that effort was pathetic last night. Mantha was pathetic last night. About half a dozen of our players, kids and vets, were lazy and disinterested last night. Z addressed that. Full stop. Let's not turn it into any more of a false fantasy than you already have. Let's not cry that Z is unfairly singling out only one player. I hope all of the players who gave less than 100% last night heard what Z said, took it to heart and understand that, if nothing else, they are accountable to their on-ice leader and need to do better. And yes, I include poor, defenseless, Anthony Mantha in that group.

 

[Nut Upstrom]

He was talking about Mantha.

Yes, he certainly was and deservedly so.
But, he was not talking about only Mantha. We watched the game last night. We know and the players know who else he was talking to.

If your position on this is that he was calling out Anthony Mantha and only Anthony Mantha and he was somehow in the wrong for being pissed over that poor, lazy effort we gave last night, then rave on buddy, there's no point having a discussion with someone so blinded by their own false perspective.

 

[Red Stanley]

Should have Witkowsky fight Mantha every game to get him fired up.

 

[BinCookin]

We can stop blaming Blashill or the roster or Ken Holland.

24 Hours In The Shoes Of Tomas Tatar

Good find Flowah... Enjoyed the read.

 

[Redder Winger]

Lets not invent a narrative that never happened.

Z called out no one by name.

Without naming anyone, he singled out Mantha, quite clearly.

Z was very unhappy with the effort that some (plural) players gave last night and he never indicated that this was a problem pertaining to a single individual - that is something people like you are inventing to have something to cry about or to invent a false cause to champion.

Once again you've resorted to "people like you" sort of ad hominem posts.

But let's address your factual argument.
Z called out the "poke in hope," an obvious reference to Mantha on goal 3.
Z specifically said it was a young guy. Mantha is one of the young guys on the team.
Z specifically said it might help you scored 25-30 goals, but it won't help you win. Mantha is the only guy near 25-30 goals.
That's Mantha, man.

The players who were lazy and half-assing it last night know who they are. They know that Z was talking to them or speaking of them in his post game comments.

More factually, he was speaking to the news media.
Not to the players.

I think his comments were spot on, that effort was pathetic last night. Mantha was pathetic last night. About half a dozen of our players, kids and vets, were lazy and disinterested last night. Z addressed that. Full stop. Let's not turn it into any more of a false fantasy than you already have. Let's not cry that Z is unfairly singling out only one player. I hope all of the players who gave less than 100% last night heard what Z said, took it to heart and understand that, if nothing else, they are accountable to their on-ice leader and need to do better. And yes, I include poor, defenseless, Anthony Mantha in that group.

Last night was a gutless effort by the entire squad.
And it starts with the veterans.

Maybe because the veterans are never held to ANY sort of standard of accountability, they don't feel like they need work hard.
They get paid and play the same amount either way.
And they certainly never get called out in the media.

 

[Redder Winger]

Good find Flowah... Enjoyed the read.

Burchfield has had a few colorful stories recently.

Much enjoy this to the paid content I've been getting at The Athletic.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

So you're defending the idea that veterans get a free ride.
Accountability means **** to you.

You want to talk about quitting on the game - there was no greater example of that then Mike Green on the second goal.
Blame Mantha all day for the turnover - because it was bad.

But Mike Green flat out quit.
At least Mantha, on that "poke and hope" play was trying to make a play.
Not trying to make the right, obviously. But downtown 2-0, he was trying to generate offense.

Green was sleepwalking.

good lord man. I was defending no such thing.

I was merely stating that when you're an established player in the NHL I'm betting that buys you a lot more rope than a rookie.

and reiterated that I think what probably ticked Z off was Mantha trying to pad his goal stats at the cost of covering his man.

And there is no defending Mantha on the poke and hope play.

 

[Redder Winger]

The more I watch the wings play the more comical it gets...... the results speak for themselves. Their coach Trashill believes competing hard is what it takes to win. Competing hard enough is no excuse to roster player who possess no skill no speed and more importantly no quickness. Hyping 20 minute a night players(#71) who are having a hard time keeping up in goals scored with a player like Riley Sheahan (4th line player for Pit)..... is an insult to "HOCKEY TOWN" fans intelligence . The 4th goal last night is a great indicator on what is terribly wrong with wings. DD had ample time to retrieve the puck... that play had forehand retrieval. Ask any Tyke Player...... a tyke player would have skated harder to the puck to generate more "time "......skating hard and looking over your shoulder simultaneously is a difficult task.....for below average players. Difficult athletic tasks come easy for players who possess any level of athletic abilities.... not that this was a difficult athletic task. Any time you can pick up the puck on your forehand....it is an automatic no brainer and an easy play to complete. So no HANDS DD elects to make a play with his backhand.....that is beyond a bone head play.........yet we elaborate on 39s mistakes.

So does that count as one strike on DD for not retrieving the puck or should we give him another strike for losing the puck battle after he earned strike one on the initial play. Usually players show greater compete level when they turn over the puck in an effort to regain the puck.

That's what I'm saying.
Kronwall giveaway on goal 1.
Dekeyser on goal 4.
Those guys are 27 and 37 years old.
They make $5M/Year.
Where's the f***ing angry comments from the coach, captain and assistant captain about their lousy mistakes.

 

[BinCookin]

Burchfield has had a few colorful stories recently.

Much enjoy this to the paid content I've been getting at The Athletic.

the athletic still doing good work?

 

[Ezekial]

This is beginning to get ridiculous.

 

[Redder Winger]

the athletic still doing good work?

Not much.
Most of their stories are no better than what you get from Freep or Mlive.

 

[Redder Winger]

This is beginning to get ridiculous.

It's been ridiculous for two years.

 

[BinCookin]

That's what I'm saying.
Kronwall giveaway on goal 1.
Dekeyser on goal 4.
Those guys are 27 and 37 years old.
They make $5M/Year.
Where's the ****ing angry comments from the coach, captain and assistant captain about their lousy mistakes.

the worst mistakes are not the mistakes themselves.

Its when a player looks like he is not trying, not bothering to backcheck. Or checking someone in a way that could prove to be catastrophic. (you get beat clean).

All of these things can be avoided.

Helm may suck... but he is rarely beaten clean.
Same goes for many of the vets. they approach a check with the primary goal to check, 2ndary goal to remove the puck.

If you check someone hoping to snag the puck and turn the other way, AND if you get the play, you look amazing, and if you screw it up, you get beat clean.

Well, WHEN you screw it up... it pisses off all the othr players who are doing the check first, offense 2nd play. the way the captain wants you to play. the way the coach wants you to play. the way "winning the game" players play.

I do notice when players fail to back check. I dont care how much talent Mantha has or AA has. they are too good to be getting beat clean on plays. Glendening sucks, but he is never beaten clean. Well there is a double standard here... and it reeks of effort, not skill. its especially sucky when your skill guys (the most talented) get beat badly. If Glendening or Helm started playing hockey this way, they would not have "no reprocussion" .... they would be off the team. In the minors.

So yes the right guys are being called out for their shitty play... because its avoidable, especially by them.

 

[Nut Upstrom]

This is beginning to get ridiculous.

Well, when a thread becomes a single person's soap box ridiculous is generally the result. How many times are we supposed to read the same post phrased a slightly different way and still consider it anything more than a ridiculous attempt at a discussion?

 

[HIFE]

This is beginning to get ridiculous.

I don't know, I find the discussion interesting. It's a competitive sport and losing brings frustration; breaking sticks and calling out fellow players in an interview. Funny that frustration appears to boils over even into a hockey forum. But the same thing I'd tell the players, don't be so hard on each other.

Let's get back on focus and blame Holland who created this mess!

 

[ShelbyZ]

But let's address your factual argument.
Z called out the "poke in hope," an obvious reference to Mantha on goal 3.
Z specifically said it was a young guy. Mantha is one of the young guys on the team.
Z specifically said it might help you scored 25-30 goals, but it won't help you win. Mantha is the only guy near 25-30 goals.
That's Mantha, man.

Manthanati confirmed.

 

[Roy S]

Abdelkader has one of the worst contracts in the NHL.

It’s arguably the worst put together team in the league. It’s the oldest team in the league with multiple players over 30 stuck on long term deals and only a few players under 25 worth anything either on the current team or in the prospect pool. And they could finish with a bottom 5 record. If they didn’t have long term deals to Helm, Abdelkader, Nielsen, etc. then it wouldn’t be so bad.

 

[Nut Upstrom]

My factual argument? I specifically stated in the post that was partially quoted: "Mantha is certainly included in that group of players and it is obvious Z was including him in that group of players."

I appreciate the bullet points to prove to me what I had already stated: that Z had made it clear that Mantha was being called out. The point I am painstakingly trying to make, is that Mantha was not the only player being called out.

 

[HIFE]

Well, when a thread becomes a single person's soap box ridiculous is generally the result. How many times are we supposed to read the same post phrased a slightly different way and still consider it anything more than a ridiculous attempt at a discussion?

If you're referring to RW I think the viewpoint is a valid argument and topic of discussion. Why is there an incessant expectation a young guy who's played less than 45 games must perfectly lead this team to victory? Blashill (and the organization) have multiple times singled the youngest players out... it's not productive or standard NHL procedure. I just don't hear other coaches pulling that crap.

Count me in the group that believes we were doomed before the season started. We don't need to blame anyone, but if we want to go there I'm looking at the veterans first. Z, Kronwall, Abdelkader wear letters- they could be much more productive. Nyquist, Glendening, Helm, Ericsson, etc. have been around for years and should be able to put up some key goals, take a game over for once. But nah, let's pick apart the game of all our ELC guys because the team stinks.

Our youngest players being only what a lot of people thought they would, top 9 but not blue-chip, isn't the end of the world.

I agree with Redder and Winger98: if the Wings are smart they'll ride the kids and keep focusing on developing the future. We know it gives us a better chance to win then, but may be even tonight. I see no other option than to trust our draft picks and let the young dudes play the biggest part. We sure aren't winning shit with Abdelkader and Helm leading the way.

 

[Nut Upstrom]

If you're referring to RW I think the viewpoint is a valid argument and topic of discussion. Why is there this incessant expectation a young guy who's played less than 45 games must perfectly lead this team to victory? Blashill (and the organization) have multiple times singled the youngest players out... it's not productive or standard NHL procedure. I just don't hear other coaches pulling this crap.

Count me in the group that believes this team was doomed before the season started. We don't need to blame anyone, but if we want to go there I'm looking at the veterans first. Z, Kronwall, Abdelkader wear letters- they could be much more productive. Nyquist, Glendening, Helm, Ericsson, etc. have been around for years and should be able to put up some key goals, take a game over for once. But nah, let's pick apart the game of all our ELC guys because the team stinks.

Our youngest players being only what a lot of people thought they would, top 9 but not blue-chip, isn't the end of the world.

I agree with Redder and Winger98: if the Wings are smart they'll ride the kids and keep focusing on developing the future. We know it gives us a better chance to win then, but may be even tonight. I see no other option than to trust our draft picks and let the young dudes play the biggest part. We sure aren't winning **** with Abdelkader and Helm leading the way.

I wasn't referring to RW, I was singling out Mantha.

 

[HIFE]

I can't wait till the "poke and hope" comments get back to NBC and we get Mike Milbury's take on it.

 

[Ezekial]

Well, when a thread becomes a single person's soap box ridiculous is generally the result. How many times are we supposed to read the same post phrased a slightly different way and still consider it anything more than a ridiculous attempt at a discussion?

It's tiring, I listen to Hank's interview and I hear a guy in the waning of his career who still has a ton of fight in him frustrated with the varying effort. He literally opens it up by saying "a lot of guys playing poke and hope hockey." So to say he's only calling out Mantha is dumb. He definitely is talking about Mantha, I know because of the 25-30 goal thing, ya, but also because I watched the game. Anyone could've made a general statement and I would've lumped him in that group in my head.

At some point you gotta just chalk it up as a waste of time.

 

[Red Stanley]

It's tiring, I listen to Hank's interview and I hear a guy in the waning of his career who still has a ton of fight in him frustrated with the varying effort. He literally opens it up by saying "a lot of guys playing poke and hope hockey." So to say he's only calling out Mantha is dumb. He definitely is talking about Mantha, I know because of the 25-30 goal thing, ya, but also because I watched the game. Anyone could've made a general statement and I would've lumped him in that group in my head.

At some point you gotta just chalk it up as a waste of time.

He's big enough to be 2.5 Nyquists.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

Being a veteran on a good team with elite veterans buys you rope

In no other way, none whatsoever, does it

Nobody cares about below average veterans on losing franchises

Lets get that clear