GDT: VGK @ Wings

Flowah

Registered User
Nov 30, 2009
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We can stop blaming Blashill or the roster or Ken Holland.

24 Hours In The Shoes Of Tomas Tatar

Inside Detroit’s dressing room a few hours later, shortly before warmups, classic rock was pumping through the stereo. A few country songs may have gained some play as well. Controlling the music used to be Tatar’s duty, but Larkin has since taken over. This isn’t necessarily a good thing in the Red Wings’ eyes.
Tatar, a European through and through, played heavy doses of EDM and techno. It got the guys pumped up, Nyquist said. A couple lockers down, Anthony Mantha agreed. As for country, they both shook their heads.
 
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Lazlo Hollyfeld

The jersey ad still sucks
Mar 4, 2004
28,161
26,456
Bottom line is, this team is critical of Mantha and AA.

I don't know how you watch last night's game and decide only one guy needs criticism in the press.

Accountability doesn't matter for veterans.

I never said only one guy needs criticism in the press. But Mantha's decision making and effort on those two goals was awful. And concerning.

That doesn't change that there's a lot of guys on big contracts who should be doing more. The two aren't mutually exclusive. If Zetterberg or anyone went over all the things that are wrong with this team it would be an hour long conversation instead of a post game soundbite. Last night Mantha made two terrible plays that ended up in the back of his net. It's not surprising that was foremost in his mind. Especially the half assed pokecheck attempt to break up ice.

Z is busting his ass every night trying to carry the team on his 37 year old back. It's no wonder he's pissed when he sees an effort like that from a young guy.
 

TheMule93

On a mule rides the swindler
May 26, 2015
12,466
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Ontario
It's not a coincidence that we started the year well when mantha was producing first line numbers and looking dominant, and have struggled from game 20 and onward, which is when manthas production dropped below half a point per game
 
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WingedWheel1987

Registered User
Jan 11, 2011
13,324
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GPP Michigan
As much as you may think our vets are garbage Redder.

Abby is still a good player. Signed too long, but for his salary he has produced just fine this year.
Nielsen has also done well.

Helm is a disappointment.
Glendening is our FOW guy. He seems to be overplayed if you don't care for that 4th line role (which few do).

How is 30-35 points fine at 4.25 million a year?

Nielsen is even worse.

Helm is trash too.

All three of those players were signed with the belief that they would continue to help the Wings make the playoffs. Obviously common sense should have prevailed and none of those players should be on this team, but this organization has lacked common sense for a very long time.
 

Redder Winger

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May 4, 2017
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Let's not forget that Mantha gave the prior game away in OT too in a very "poke and pray" kind of way.

With help from Larkin, who chipped the puck into the ref and turned it over, and then didn't cover his man, the goal scorer.
 

Redder Winger

Registered User
May 4, 2017
3,700
730
I never said only one guy needs criticism in the press. But Mantha's decision making and effort on those two goals was awful. And concerning.

That doesn't change that there's a lot of guys on big contracts who should be doing more. The two aren't mutually exclusive. If Zetterberg or anyone went over all the things that are wrong with this team it would be an hour long conversation instead of a post game soundbite. Last night Mantha made two terrible plays that ended up in the back of his net. It's not surprising that was foremost in his mind. Especially the half assed pokecheck attempt to break up ice.

Z is busting his ass every night trying to carry the team on his 37 year old back. It's no wonder he's pissed when he sees an effort like that from a young guy.

I;m tired of the hero worship.

Z wants to call out Mantha? Fine.
That was a pretty pointed criticism of one guy on the team.
Never seen him do that before.

Z needs to man up and point criticism at other guys too.

Or else he's just a useless hypocrite.

Consistency matters with accountability.
You hold EVERYONE accountable, or nobody.
 

Lazlo Hollyfeld

The jersey ad still sucks
Mar 4, 2004
28,161
26,456
I;m tired of the hero worship.

Z wants to call out Mantha? Fine.
That was a pretty pointed criticism of one guy on the team.
Never seen him do that before.

Z needs to man up and point criticism at other guys too.

Or else he's just a useless hypocrite.

Consistency matters with accountability.
You hold EVERYONE accountable, or nobody.
useless hypocrite?

Z busts his ass every night. It's not hero worship, it's leadership.

I'm not sure why this has struck such a nerve with you. It was one comment in one post game interview after having to give endless explanations as to why this team is losing. And Mantha's mistakes were egregious.
 

izlez

We need more toe-drags/60
Feb 28, 2012
4,579
3,463
I;m tired of the hero worship.

Z wants to call out Mantha? Fine.
That was a pretty pointed criticism of one guy on the team.
Never seen him do that before.

Z needs to man up and point criticism at other guys too.

Or else he's just a useless hypocrite.

Consistency matters with accountability.
You hold EVERYONE accountable, or nobody.
Can we take a step back and realize that Zetterberg criticized a style of lazy hockey, not "Mantha"?
 

SoupGuru

Registered User
May 12, 2007
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Maybe... follow me here... Maybe, Mantha has a problem that pretty much everyone knows about except for a couple of posters in an internet forum. It does kind of explain the evidence... Just saying...
 
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Redder Winger

Registered User
May 4, 2017
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Maybe... follow me here... Maybe, Mantha has a problem that pretty much everyone knows about except for a couple of posters in an internet forum. It does kind of explain the evidence... Just saying...

Nobody is saying Mantha doesn't have a problem.
 

jkutswings

hot piss hockey
Jul 10, 2014
10,853
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useless hypocrite?

Z busts his ass every night. It's not hero worship, it's leadership.

I'm not sure why this has struck such a nerve with you. It was one comment in one post game interview after having to give endless explanations as to why this team is losing. And Mantha's mistakes were egregious.
Nobody is saying that Mantha didn't have a game worth criticizing. It's that, after a season where lots of players suck, and lots of players show lack of effort, but only some of the kids get ripped for it... Once again, only some of the kids get ripped for it.

Had there been even the rare occasion of taking some of the other guys to task, I could say it's fine to just hammer Mantha on this particular game. But guys like Green and Helm and even Larkin get free passes they don't deserve, after boneheaded plays they should be able to handle just fine.
 

Pavels Dog

Registered User
Feb 18, 2013
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Lots of ways.
1) AA has been a big producer when he plays more minutes.
2) The team wins when he plays more minutes.
3) He leads the team on points/60
4) He's among the leaders in goals/60
5) We're and old team out of the playoffs. There is no "now." It's about the future.

And by the way, Helm can be the 3C and is probably better suited for it anyway.
If only we played AA 30 minutes per game we would surely be undefeated and win the cup considering his icetime is NEVER cut due to bad performance.
 
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SoupGuru

Registered User
May 12, 2007
18,545
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Spokane
We are obviously not privvy to what's going on in the locker room but it certainly seems like Mantha has more of an attitude problem than the others that get mentioned.
 

Lazlo Hollyfeld

The jersey ad still sucks
Mar 4, 2004
28,161
26,456
Nobody is saying that Mantha didn't have a game worth criticizing. It's that, after a season where lots of players suck, and lots of players show lack of effort, but only some of the kids get ripped for it... Once again, only some of the kids get ripped for it.

Had there been even the rare occasion of taking some of the other guys to task, I could say it's fine to just hammer Mantha on this particular game. But guys like Green and Helm and even Larkin get free passes they don't deserve, after boneheaded plays they should be able to handle just fine.
I don't disagree about players sucking. I think Helm has been particularly bad this year. As for lack of effort the first names that leap to mine are Mantha, AA (though he's improved), and Green.

I think the reality is that veterans do get a pass to a certain extent. Helm has been bad but he's proven he's an NHL caliber player. I'm assuming they go over game video of mistakes but as maddening as he's been to watch this season I doubt anyone needs to tell Helm to work harder. And with Green it's so tied into his game you might as well get mad at Nyquist for not being a foot taller.

Mantha has played 42 games in the NHL. He's still learning what it means to be an every day NHL hockey player, and in a tough season where you lose a lot and you've got no chance of making the playoffs. I thought it was bizarre when Devellano trashed Mantha before he'd even played a game as a Red Wing, but clearly there's a problem there and one that needs correcting.

Maybe Z didn't need to call him out like that, but I'm guessing he was super pissed and is sick of losing. And based on his comments it sounds like it wasn't just the lack of effort but that it was Mantha caring only about himself and his stats. He tried to dispy doodle on the PP, coughed up the puck and then stood there and watched. Then he made a half-assed poke check hoping to get up ice on a breakaway and the puck ended up in his net.

It's beyond lack of effort. It's quitting on the game.
 

Redder Winger

Registered User
May 4, 2017
3,700
730
If only we played AA 30 minutes per game we would surely be undefeated and win the cup considering his icetime is NEVER cut due to bad performance.

I think 18 is just about right.

Here's how it is now. vs How I'd like it
The rest of the season.

Larkin 19:46 vs 19:30
Zetterberg 19:44 vs 17:00
Nyquist 18:04 vs 16:30
Mantha 17:17 vs 18:00
Abdelkader 16:46 vs 16:00
Nielsen 15:40 vs 16:00
Athanasiou 15:39 vs 18:00
Helm 15:33 vs 15:00
Bertuzzi 13:27 vs 15:00
Frk 10:20 vs 13:00

You all want to finish in the toilet while getting nothing tangible for it? Be my guess. Keep using Z 20 minutes a game.
Keep using Nyquist, same number of points as AA in 30 percent more minutes, even though he's a UFA and likely trade bait next year.

I mean, fine, if you're ready to move on from AA, that's your call.

But playing him 12-13 minutes a night like we've seen recently is dumb.
 

Redder Winger

Registered User
May 4, 2017
3,700
730
I don't disagree about players sucking. I think Helm has been particularly bad this year. As for lack of effort the first names that leap to mine are Mantha, AA (though he's improved), and Green.

I think the reality is that veterans do get a pass to a certain extent. Helm has been bad but he's proven he's an NHL caliber player. I'm assuming they go over game video of mistakes but as maddening as he's been to watch this season I doubt anyone needs to tell Helm to work harder. And with Green it's so tied into his game you might as well get mad at Nyquist for not being a foot taller.

Mantha has played 42 games in the NHL. He's still learning what it means to be an every day NHL hockey player, and in a tough season where you lose a lot and you've got no chance of making the playoffs. I thought it was bizarre when Devellano trashed Mantha before he'd even played a game as a Red Wing, but clearly there's a problem there and one that needs correcting.

Maybe Z didn't need to call him out like that, but I'm guessing he was super pissed and is sick of losing. And based on his comments it sounds like it wasn't just the lack of effort but that it was Mantha caring only about himself and his stats. He tried to dispy doodle on the PP, coughed up the puck and then stood there and watched. Then he made a half-assed poke check hoping to get up ice on a breakaway and the puck ended up in his net.

It's beyond lack of effort. It's quitting on the game.

So you're defending the idea that veterans get a free ride.
Accountability means shit to you.

You want to talk about quitting on the game - there was no greater example of that then Mike Green on the second goal.
Blame Mantha all day for the turnover - because it was bad.

But Mike Green flat out quit.
At least Mantha, on that "poke and hope" play was trying to make a play.
Not trying to make the right, obviously. But downtown 2-0, he was trying to generate offense.

Green was sleepwalking.
 
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Redder Winger

Registered User
May 4, 2017
3,700
730
One of these days, people are going to realize that the major problem of this team isn't the 23-24 year olds.

Then again, maybe not.
 

Pavels Dog

Registered User
Feb 18, 2013
19,739
14,711
Sweden
I think 18 is just about right.

Here's how it is now. vs How I'd like it
The rest of the season.

Larkin 19:46 vs 19:30
Zetterberg 19:44 vs 17:00
Nyquist 18:04 vs 16:30
Mantha 17:17 vs 18:00
Abdelkader 16:46 vs 16:00
Nielsen 15:40 vs 16:00
Athanasiou 15:39 vs 18:00
Helm 15:33 vs 15:00
Bertuzzi 13:27 vs 15:00
Frk 10:20 vs 13:00

You all want to finish in the toilet while getting nothing tangible for it? Be my guess. Keep using Z 20 minutes a game.
Keep using Nyquist, same number of points as AA in 30 percent more minutes, even though he's a UFA and likely trade bait next year.

I mean, fine, if you're ready to move on from AA, that's your call.

But playing him 12-13 minutes a night like we've seen recently is dumb.
What? Move on from AA? What does his icetime have to do with that? You’re making zero sense to be honest.
 

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