Confirmed Signing with Link: [VGK] Shea Theodore extension with Vegas (7 years, $5.2M AAV)

[zeke]

Gardiner (24, #17): 173gms, ES 17:52 (C+ qoc), .81p60, .54p160, 48.2cf% (+3.4), 43.8xgf% (-2.4) / PP 2:06, 3.47p60, 2.31p160 / PK 1:04
Theodore (23, #26): 153gms, ES 15:37 (C+ qoc), .95p60, .80p160, 51.1cf% (-1.0), 49.4xgf% (-4.1) / PP 2:28, 3.00p60, 1.42p160 / PK 0:37


Jake $4.05m x 5yrs

Shea $5.20m x 7yrs

 

[Nizdizzle]

Gardiner (24, #17): 173gms, ES 17:52 (C+ qoc), .81p60, .54p160, 48.2cf% (+3.4), 43.8xgf% (-2.4) / PP 2:06, 3.47p60, 2.31p160 / PK 1:04
Theodore (23, #26): 153gms, ES 15:37 (C+ qoc), .95p60, .80p160, 51.1cf% (-1.0), 49.4xgf% (-4.1) / PP 2:28, 3.00p60, 1.42p160 / PK 0:37


Jake $4.05m x 5yrs

Shea $5.20m x 7yrs

Gardiner signed his deal in 2014 when the cap was only $69.0 Million.

EDIT: Gardiner would have been ~5.9% of the cap, with Theodore is ~6.5%

 

[DudeWhereIsMakar]

Now I'll apologize for the Nylander for Theodore proposals.

Good deal either way.

 

[GKG18]

So much for VGK not signing players to long term deals....

 

[StreetHawk]

Gardiner signed his deal in 2014 when the cap was only $69.0 Million.

EDIT: Gardiner would have been ~5.9% of the cap, with Theodore is ~6.5%

2 extra years of UFA as well. Theodore is signed until he is 30.

Look at the other recent post ELC Dmen. Reilly got $5 million for 5 years, so 2 fewer years of UFA. Jones got $5.4 million over 6 years. Those deals were signed 2 years ago when the cap was $73 million.

Do I foresee Theodore becoming the next Jossi and being a legit Norris guy? No... Don't think he'll end up in the same class as Jones, and the sub 25 year old guys who will be the next batch to contend for a Norris. So, there's no leaving a bunch of money on the table for Theodore.

 

[The Burdened]

And he should. He's a better defenseman.

and here we have a poster who's on more crack cocaine than Gritty

 

[Jesus Take the Wheel]

Gardiner (24, #17): 173gms, ES 17:52 (C+ qoc), .81p60, .54p160, 48.2cf% (+3.4), 43.8xgf% (-2.4) / PP 2:06, 3.47p60, 2.31p160 / PK 1:04
Theodore (23, #26): 153gms, ES 15:37 (C+ qoc), .95p60, .80p160, 51.1cf% (-1.0), 49.4xgf% (-4.1) / PP 2:28, 3.00p60, 1.42p160 / PK 0:37


Jake $4.05m x 5yrs

Shea $5.20m x 7yrs

So Theodore is a better 5v5 producer and signed his contract for a slightly higher percentage of cap but it includes an extra two ufa years? Who's side are you exactly trying to argue posting those stats

 

[go4hockey]

Going to be a steal. If he can be a little more consistent he'll be a legit top pairing dman. And we know the going rate for top pairing dmen in their prime isn't and won't be $5.2M.

With his play in his own end he has a long long way to go before he could be counted on as a top pairing guy. To me he is more a good #3 with great offensive instincts, time will tell.

 

[ponder]

Dude is just 23, very talented, and AT LEAST a 3D already, if not a legit top pairing guy. I mean, he was a 2D for a cup finalist last year, although I’ll admit that was a pretty unique and unusual team/situation.

This is a great deal for Vegas IMO, he’ll be worth $6-7 mil soon, locking him in for 7 years at such a reasonable price is a big win.

 

[Sensinitis]

Shea Theodore Stats | Hockey-Reference.com
Shayne Gostisbehere Stats | Hockey-Reference.com

Ah, I remember being 16 and just looking at stats...

 

[Rebels57]

Ah, I remember being 16 and just looking at stats...

We get it. You don't like Flyers players.

Ghost finished 4th in D scoring with 65 points and 10th in Norris voting last season.

Calling Theodore better than Ghost is a f***ing joke.

It's even worse than your awful assertion that Giroux, despite being 2nd in total points and 6th in P/GP over the last 7 years, is "not an elite player."

Theodore is a fine young dman with a lot of potential though. No denying that.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

NHL sent me a a push notification at 12:19 in the morning. Who do they think they are?

To be fair no windows in Vegas. They probably thought it was noon.

Rielly signed his deal 2 years ago. The cap was 71.4m then and is now 79.5m. That was 7.002% of the teams hit to Theodore's 6.54%

Jones signed his deal 2 years ago. The cap was 71.4m then and is now 79.5m. That was 7.563% of the teams hit to Theodore's 6.54%

Lindholm signed his deal 2 years ago. The cap was 71.4m then and is now 79.5m. That was 7.289% of the teams hit to Theodore's 6.54%

Rielly had 29 pts the year he signed his to Theodore's 29 pts.

Jones had 27 points to Theodore's 29 pts.

Lindholm had 34 pts to Theodore's 29 pts

They are not the same contracts as Theodores is for less % of the cap as well as taking more UFA years. Saying he is half the defender they are is insanely ignorant. Saying they are better is fact but the gap isn't that big. This is a really solid deal for Vegas as Theodore is playing top 2 minutes for them and has been a stud. I believe your views on the cap and how it relates to players is extremely out dated and flawed.

I'm not as high on Theodore as everyone else but this is a really good post for perspective.

I came in to say it's a gamble and that would be a lot to pay a guy who could settle in anywhere from a 2d to a bottom pairing offensive specialist and he has much less certainty than the guys you mentioned. I still think it's a little bit of a gamble but it's not the wrong thing to do if that's the guy you believe in.

 

[sabresfan65]

To be fair no windows in Vegas. They probably thought it was noon.

Especially since it was only 9pm here.

 

[Ezekial]

Especially since it was only 9pm here.

I'm Central time buddy. It was after 10 your time.

It's weird though, your announcements are so late recently. I guess it's Vegas after all.

 

[Freaky Styley]

I get that based on comparisons it looks like he might be getting too much NOW, but the playoffs definitely played a huge part of negotiations, and I think it will be a steal down the line. This guy looked like a young Scott Niedermyer last spring

 

[SlapshotTheMovie]

Lindholm is a defensive defensemen and Theo is an offensive defensemen that plays the pp and Londholm still had more points. I like Theo but more as a project that could one day become a 2nd pairing d like he started to show last year. Players like that dont get paid anywhere near a 1d or a kid with 1d potential. When the Ducks let him go he was like the 8th most valuable defensemen or d prospect in the system behind Lindholm, Fowler Manson, Montour, Larsson, Mahura, Vatanen. Seems to me a $4m aav deal or less would make more sense but he probably had leverage because Vegas didnt have a ton of options. Hopefully for them he grows into a $5m player.

Linholm also played more games. Theo didn't play the full season and was a monster in the playoffs. I get that you won't admit that they are similar but thats going to fall under the homer rule and i am not going to debate with you about it.

 

[Vegan Knight]

Lindholm is a defensive defensemen and Theo is an offensive defensemen that plays the pp and Londholm still had more points. I like Theo but more as a project that could one day become a 2nd pairing d like he started to show last year. Players like that dont get paid anywhere near a 1d or a kid with 1d potential. When the Ducks let him go he was like the 8th most valuable defensemen or d prospect in the system behind Lindholm, Fowler Manson, Montour, Larsson, Mahura, Vatanen. Seems to me a $4m aav deal or less would make more sense but he probably had leverage because Vegas didnt have a ton of options. Hopefully for them he grows into a $5m player.

First of all, the ducks have, like, the deepest defense core and young prospects in the league. They are constantly finding good young defensemen. Lindholm, Fowler and Manson are all great players.

Theodore was also never considered lower than Larsson or Mahura. Like ever. He also may very well have been more valued than Vatanen if Anaheim hadn't been in win now mode, either as a trade chip or player for them.

Beyond that there was debate between Theodore and Montour within the organization itself and even reports out of the expansion draft that Anaheim offered Vegas their pick of Theodore/Montour in order to take Stoner and not take the older, more developed Vatanen.

 

[Paul4587]

Rielly signed his deal 2 years ago. The cap was 71.4m then and is now 79.5m. That was 7.002% of the teams hit to Theodore's 6.54%

Jones signed his deal 2 years ago. The cap was 71.4m then and is now 79.5m. That was 7.563% of the teams hit to Theodore's 6.54%

Lindholm signed his deal 2 years ago. The cap was 71.4m then and is now 79.5m. That was 7.289% of the teams hit to Theodore's 6.54%

Rielly had 29 pts the year he signed his to Theodore's 29 pts.

Jones had 27 points to Theodore's 29 pts.

Lindholm had 34 pts to Theodore's 29 pts

They are not the same contracts as Theodores is for less % of the cap as well as taking more UFA years. Saying he is half the defender they are is insanely ignorant. Saying they are better is fact but the gap isn't that big. This is a really solid deal for Vegas as Theodore is playing top 2 minutes for them and has been a stud. I believe your views on the cap and how it relates to players is extremely out dated and flawed.

I understand the cap and how inflation works. Thanks though. I acknowledged Theodore wasn’t quite at their salary level and that the lengths were slightly different.

I also know that those guys weren’t putting up quite the offensive numbers they are now (except Lindholm). My biggest point with the comparables is how good they all were in their own end even back then. Lindholm and Jones were already among the best in the league and Rielly was miles ahead of where Theodore is now also.

 

[SlapshotTheMovie]

I understand the cap and how inflation works. Thanks though. I acknowledged Theodore wasn’t quite at their salary level and that the lengths were slightly different.

I also know that those guys weren’t putting up quite the offensive numbers they are now (except Lindholm). My biggest point with the comparables is how good they all were in their own end even back then. Lindholm and Jones were already among the best in the league and Rielly was miles ahead of where Theodore is now also.

If you could point me to any part of the NHL's history in the cap era where two way defenders or defensive defenders were compensated the same or more then offensives defenders then we can take you seriously. Until then you won't be.

 

[Vegan Knight]

I understand the cap and how inflation works. Thanks though. I acknowledged Theodore wasn’t quite at their salary level and that the lengths were slightly different.

I also know that those guys weren’t putting up quite the offensive numbers they are now (except Lindholm). My biggest point with the comparables is how good they all were in their own end even back then. Lindholm and Jones were already among the best in the league and Rielly was miles ahead of where Theodore is now also.

You didn't acknowledge he wasn't quite at their salary level, though? You said that he was "in their tier." That isn't saying it's below them at all. You only said it bought more UFA years (kind of dismissively as if that isn't a big factor.)

There also was no acknowledgment of the cap going up at all when the deals were signed, so questioning if you realized that is natural, given the statement you initially made that seemed to lack an important point when comparing contracts with other players (comparisons you brought up yourself without the proper context for those deals.)

You also made no differentiation between your comparison's offensive output when making a blanket statement of, "not half the d-men those guys are." Defensive concerns was partially clarified later with Theodore alone, but not the comparables, when you said he was "soft as butter and questionable" in his own end to talk about his defense.

You say you watched some Vegas games but I'm guessing that wasn't too many because while he still has his share of issues to fix defensively, he played over 20 minutes a night in tough situations on a middle pair with Deryk Engelland as a partner and did well enough to be the second best defenseman on a team that earned 105 points and made it to the SCF. He showed marked improvement in his own zone last year from his Anaheim days and for a 22 year old defenseman those types of improvements year to year are a very good sign.

It's certainly not "soft as butter" or "half the d-man" those other guys are.

 

[powerstuck]

I am starting to think people are forgetting than in a year both the league and the PA can opt for a work stoppage.

Players and agents are looking for a bigger payout because no one has an idea what the next CBA could bring.

Besides, some players are still on previous CBA contracts (Crosby to name an important one).

 

[Hischier and Hughes]

Idk if this is a good deal for Vegas, for all we know most of teir roster overachieved last year

 

[Pizza!Pizza!]

As a Wings fan I must point out that this is the type of contract that led to all the "Fire Ken Holland" comments you see all over the internet. Signing a young and promising (but unproven) talent to a long term medium level contract.

If Shea lives up to his potential (or at least stays consistent) then this deal makes McPhee look like a genius. If he stagnates then he makes McPhee look like Ken Holland (Helm, Tartar, Franzen et al).

That's the GM's gamble in the Cap-Era NHL -- if you sign a young core to contracts like this and they all live up to their hype, you get a dynasty, if they don't then you get Dead Wings 2.0 and empty seats in your new billion dollar stadium.

Hoping for the best though. #GoKnights!

 

[The Winter Soldier]

This is a good deal for Theodore. I may have a higher regard for him than most. But I think he can grow into making that 5.2M per work. Kind of surprised VGK would ante up off of one good season. But not surprised VGK would want to lock him up. Another RFA locked up this week.

 

[Jay haller]

Grossly overpaid.