izzy
go
oh lmao wasnt sure if they were running some crazy system lately. didnt know schmidt was on his off side lately
Confirmed Trade: [VGK/OTT] Mark Stone, Tobias Lindberg for Erik Brannstrom, Oscar Lindberg, and 2020 2nd round pick
- Thread starter MMC
- Start date
oh lmao wasnt sure if they were running some crazy system lately. didnt know schmidt was on his off side lately
No I've never been a guy that memorizes what side defensemen play on. I think the last ones I kept track of were Niedermayer and Pronger.
izzy
go
i have most of their handedness zapped in my brain for whatever reason but some do play on the off side
It's pretty much the one aspect of lineup deployment that I don't really give a shit about.
I agree with the previous poster. Brannstrom has always been the better prospect over Suzuki. Suzuki has a lot of concerns about how his dipsy-doodle game will translate to the show. How is he going to adjust to a coach reeling him in and making him play "the right way." He's like a more talented Ho-Sang (without the character concerns. Never heard a bad thing about Suzuki's personality.) Theres a chance trying to pull it back may not work.
Only concern with Brannstrom was his size. Considering how the game is changed / changing, I don't think that's a concern anymore. No weaknesses at all with him I could think of.
I think ~70% of VGK fans would take Glass over Brannstrom. I know I would without a second thought. That's not a sleight against Erik, I just think 1C > 1D, and Glass is more likely to be a 1C than Brannstrom is to be a #1 guy.
I am really, really high on Glass. Think he will be better than Johansen, but not as good as Schiefele, though there's a chance he could reach that level.
grapes55
Registered User
I honestly think this is a really great trade for Ottawa. With potentially 2 firsts coming from the Duchene trade, I honestly don't think another first was all that necessary, ESPECIALLY since they got Brannstrom. From the little I know about him he's supposed to be a stud that can be a core piece for the Sens for a long time.
Obviously, great trade for VGK as well since they got a 26-year-old Selke contending, first line winger in Stone and were able to resign him for what I think is a pretty fair contract.
Obviously, great trade for VGK as well since they got a 26-year-old Selke contending, first line winger in Stone and were able to resign him for what I think is a pretty fair contract.
Hostile Offer
Artist formerly known as Eagle Peninsula
That's a poor scouting report on Suzuki. He is not nearly as extreme of a case as Ho-Sang. Suzuki plays a smart, defensively responsible game, something that doesn't exist for Ho-Sang. I think the biggest concern for Suzuki is how he'll be able to keep up when the game gets faster and more physical. He wasn't quite ready for that in the camp last year.
I don't believe there is one single thing accurate in that quote.
Suzuki does not play a dipsy-doodle game. His vision, playmaking skills, hockey IQ and his shot are his bread and butter. He is mostly a skilled cerebral player. His concerns are his average size/strength and skating. I personally would like him to move his feet more when he doesn't have the puck.
He is nothing like Ho-Sang whose game is based on his high speed and deke every opponent ability. Ho-Sang hockey IQ is average at best.
Suzuki was voted the most sportsmanlike player in the OHL. Every coach report I have seen talks about his how he excels on and off the ice. He is already "playing the right way " from the coach perspective.
For the record, I also believe Glass and Brannstrom are better prospects at this point.
SensFactor
Registered User
Trade should have been 2019 1st and Brannstrom and another pick or prospect . We haven't seen what Brannstrom can do at the NHL level. Stone is a proven talent in his prime for at least the next 4 years.
For a signed Stone, Sens got below avg return, especially since Lindberg is a UFA this year and the 2nd next year likely also a late second rounder. I'd rate the trade C+.
For a signed Stone, Sens got below avg return, especially since Lindberg is a UFA this year and the 2nd next year likely also a late second rounder. I'd rate the trade C+.
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On second thought, Ho-Sang was a terrible and lazy comp. I agree with both of you.
I only saw mostly highlights of him in the OHL. When he was at Vegas rookie camp, we was trying to stand out. Doing stuff that would make a coach pull his hair out. But those were extenuating circumstances, so it was too small of a sample size to judge him on. I dont blame him at all for trying to flash show his skill to everyone as it was the biggest stage he had played on at that point.
I think he will translate quite well to the wing, and be a solid top 6 scorer. I just think the potential is higher to be line drivers with the other too. Hes a real good prospect who has done nothing but keep or improve on his draft stock.
DatDude44
Hmmmm?
- Feb 23, 2012
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The difference is those teams didn't mortgage their future in a duchene esque deal, a year prior to entering a full on rebuild and as a result are the worst team in the league who don't even own their own soon to be top 4 most likely top 2 1st round pick for the upcoming draft that could result in a franchise altering player.
Better return than any rental, but worse than you should get for 8 years of Stone.
Obviously Stone would only consider extending with a few teams so Ottawa had to take the best offer available from that short list.
PriceIsGod
Carey Please :)
I feel like this detail gets under looked a lot. People who act like a re-signed stone should have got more need to realize he wasn’t resigning anywhere. Seems like this was likely the best offer or at least one of them.
Channelcat
Unhinged user
Absolutely. Dorians hands were tied, and he still made a great trade. 3 years down the road, this will be considered one of the best UFA returns ever imho.
TkachukNorris79
Registered User
- Jan 27, 2018
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Realistically we won't be able to truly grade the trade for another 2-3 years. Brannstrom is 19.
If he turns out to be elite, Ottawa probably wins (A+) just based off age and value of defenders, plus that late 2nd could turn into a player, if Ottawa is good at anything, it's drafting. Lindberg is a filler, but I'd sign him to a 1 year deal and flip him for whatever you can next year.
If he turns out to be a true top pairing guy, it'll be a good trade for both teams. Vegas needs Stone now, Ottawa needs Brannstrom later.
If he's a second pairing guy (minutes-wise, as he'll be 2nd pair behind Chabot unless he plays the right side) or worse, that's a HUGE loss for Ottawa.
We don't usually see top prospects moved, but they're usually tough to gauge as their ceilings are so high. Example would be Puljujarvi. When he gets traded, we won't be able to grade it for another year, as he still has a pretty high ceiling.
I do agree that the 1st should have been a no-brainer. But I don't think Dorion is a good negotiator, and Brannstrom is the main piece anyways.
Do Make Say Think
& Yet & Yet
- Jun 26, 2007
- 51,166
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I think people don't realize how much teams value top prospects nowadays. The rumoured fallback plan for Dorion was trade Stone, un-signed, to the Islanders for Beauvillier and 1st.
Teams do not trade away their top prospects anymore; barring a return like Mark Stone that is.
SensFactor
Registered User
They didn't mortgsge their future. They went all in trying and win the cup after being a goal away from the finals in the season that just ended in 2017.
Let's revisit the Duchene trade and see what they actually "mortgaged ".
What the Sens traded:
2019 1st Round draft pick - this is the biggest asset they gave up no doubt and this is likely a top 4 pick in 2019. However they likely got the 15-22 overall pick this year trading Duchene to Columbus who are still not in guaranteed playoff spot. Plus another first rounder in 2020 if Duchene signs an extension.
Andrew Hammond - career likely over playing in the AHL.
Kyle Turris- he has been less than spectacular and injured this year for Nashville. 7 goals in 44 games and is signed for another 5 years which will take him to 35 when his contract expires. Last I heard he was also being shopped at the trade deadline.
3rd round pick 2019 - longshot at a decent propect.
Shane Bowers - he's a project and projected as a bottom six forward in the NHL. We got two B prospects back in Abramov and Davidsson in the Duchene trade which which are sooner to having at least a shot at the Nhl than Bowers. So I beleive this is a wash.
- Dec 2, 2007
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This seems like an oversimplification of the trade in hindsight and underselling of Bowers who has played very well in college so far. There's a lot of potential there and he's worth more than Abramov + Davidsson.
Let's say it's 4th overall, you'd need THREE 2019 1st round picks in the 15 - 31 range to get close to 4th in value.
Turris was still worth Kamenev, Girard and a 2nd when traded. That's a fair bit of value ferried right to Colorado. Especially considering Girard might be the most valuable piece in the deal.
SensFactor
Registered User
Well only time will tell on Bowers. If he becomes what you think he might, I'll eat some humble pie. However seeing him play in person I don't see him as top six at all.
Turris value was definitely high at the time of the deal, however ask me if he gets that value right now? His lost point production is easily replaceable especially since he's declined since being traded
Also the 4th overall pick doesn't mean guaranteed nhler, just like the 15-22 overall pick doesn't mean it. Talent has been drafted throughout the first round and sometimes its luck of the draw. Now if they get Hughes, absolutely we not getting that value in the 15 to 22 spot.
My point is that when posters say the Sens mortgaged the future for Duchene that is not true. If we let Duchene walk for nothing then that's a different story.
- Dec 2, 2007
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I could see as a fan of the team feeling this way. But as an outsider I think both sides have merit. Senators did a solid amount of damage control overall. But in the end they also gave away Bowers, Girard and a top pick for what is basically around a 16th overall 1st, Abramov and Davidsson. Every single asset in the Avs side is more valuable than every single one on the Sens side. Sens may not be hurting thanks to Chabot, White, Brown, Tkachuk, etc.
But that lineup would look significantly better adding Bowers, Girard, 1st-4th '19, etc. We're talking about your hypothetical #1, #4 and #5 or 6 prospects being ripped from your hypothetical 2019-20 depth chart.
Just at the time of the trade it was all 'spare parts' in the pursuit of a cup. So collateral damage in the grand scheme turned into damage control now.
SensFactor
Registered User
I don't think you can add Girard to the mix. We can't control what other teams do afterwards. That's good on Colorado to get Girard. However, he isn't exactly tearing it up for you either is he now? Last time I checked the Avs aren't in the playoffs even with Girard. Like I said we will see what happens with a the picks and propects but the deal isn't as devasting as you may perceive it to be.
Neither Ottawa or Colorado can seem to figure out a rebuild so the trade doesn't really matter anyways.
SensFactor
Registered User
This is our first year of a rebuild lol. We haven't had a rebuild of this nature in the last 21 seasons mainly because the Sens usually make the playoffs. This is the first time in 21 years that the sens will miss the playoffs in consecutive seasons. I guess after 21 years a rebuild is bound to happen.
