Confirmed Trade: [VGK/MTL] Max Pacioretty for 2019 2nd round pick, Nick Suzuki, and Tomas Tatar Part II

[Just Linda]

While Patch has 2 pts in 13 games played, Tatar has 15 in 17 GP and both are playing with a bad center... Not only we win that trade 1 on 1 with ease but get in Suzuki a high skills top 6 foward with great hockey IQ + a 2nd round pick... Total robbery!

Denault isn't elite but he's a good centre.

 

[Spectra]

Well, guess it was about time MTL got a win, however small. I think the last time was in 1993 or something.

 

[Sam Spade]

It's an interesting conversation where a couple of hockey fans can get together to talk about McPhee and his ineptitude the season directly after two teams with his fingerprints all over their construction just played in the Stanley Cup Finals.

Great post.

Let me just finish by saying the drafting of the lower picked players that contributed to the Cup was all Ross Mahoney. The contracts/trades that contributed to the Cup win were Brian McClellen's (Orpik, Niskanen, Smith-Pelley, Eller, Kempny and Oshie).

I will not give McPhee credit for anything because it took him leaving to finally get it right. It was such a lazy narrative to say McPhee "built" the team that was playing in the Final.

In McPhee's first season in D.C. he went to the Final as well, it was history repeating itself. Good luck Vegas.

 

[ITM]

Great post.

Let me just finish by saying the drafting of the lower picked players that contributed to the Cup was all Ross Mahoney. The contracts/trades that contributed to the Cup win were Brian McClellen's (Orpik, Niskanen, Smith-Pelley, Eller, Kempny and Oshie).

I will not give McPhee credit for anything because it took him leaving to finally get it right. It was such a lazy narrative to say McPhee "built" the team that was playing in the Final.

In McPhee's first season in D.C. he went to the Final as well, it was history repeating itself. Good luck Vegas.

Thanks.

Ross Mahoney? Interesting. I'll follow up on him.

To the second point, I'll certainly keep it in mind mostly in that there's a degree of separation between Toronto and Vegas in Laurence Gilman.

 

[Goldenhands]

Denault isn't elite but he's a good centre.

You are right, he isnt a bad center, thats not exactly what I meant, I just wanted to point out that Danault's offensive tools are limited and that he is more suited for a third line center role...

 

[HuGo Sham]

Well, guess it was about time MTL got a win, however small. I think the last time was in 1993 or something.

chicago hadn't won a cup in 50 years..until 2010 but carry on

 

[Pizza!Pizza!]

The Tatar trade was next level moronic, there is no other way to spin that one.

Challenge accepted. (I fully agree with the rest of your post though)

The first Tartar trade was a brilliant move, that became next level moronic when they benched him and then traded him before training camp WITH MORE ASSETS for a player who - at best - gets +10 goals/year, and then gave that player an extra $2.2million dollars a year.

To elaborate, here were the big trade deadline moves last season:
Paul Stastny, UFA -> 1st, 4th + prospect
Evander Kane, UFA -> 1st (con) 4th (con) + prospect
Ryan Hartman (19 goals) + 5th -> 1st, 4th + prospect
Rick Nash, UFA (avg 19 goals in last 2 seasons) -> 1st, 7th + Spooner, Belesky and Lindgren
Derick Brassard -> 3 team trade where Pens gave up a 1st rounder solely because he was signed for 1 more year.
Grabner, UFA (25 goals) -> 2nd + Rykov

20 Goal scorer RENTAL players were fetching 1st rounders. Tartar was under contract for 3 years (at a reasonable $4.8m/yr). Bringing in a consistent 20+ goal scorer as a rental at the standard price of a 1st rounder, but then getting two full additional seasons out of him (or 1.8 seasons and then trading him at the deadline to get some assets back) while only giving up a 2nd and 3rd is brilliant. Even if you look at it from the reverse angle it seems like an even better move - trading a 3rd rounder for a 20+ goal scorer for the playoff run is way below what the rest of the league spent, and then paying TDL rates but getting entire seasons of production for the next 2 years is brilliant.

The trade even worked for Detroit because it sped up the rebuild and it was evident Tatar was not living up to his potential on the club. That's why I'll always defend that deal, it's a very rare win-win trade.

What is not brilliant is benching Tatar (especially when perron is still in the lineup) and then moving him before training camp the following season. Vegas had a high chemistry team so its not surprising that Tatar didn't fully mesh at first (but riding the bench was not going to change that). It's also apparent that Tatar being under term was key for Vegas since they had multiple veteran UFAs they expected might leave, so he was supposed to bring some stability to the roster. I was interested to see how a clean slate/full training camp would affect Tatar's role on the VGK, so when they traded him along with Suzuki and a 2nd rounder for Patches I was dumbfounded. When they immediately extended Patches for 4x$7m it confirmed everything bad every Caps fan ever said about McPhee. He doesn't give that extra year to Neal to keep him, but instead brings in a 'replacement' who has never been as impactful as Neal, pays him more and coughs up a 20 goal scorer he paid 3 high picks for plus a blue chip prospect and another high pick just for the right to pay him more. Astounding. Vegas is going to be in for some dark times once MAF retires.

EDIT: Oh and i forgot the best part, McPhee even retained $500,000 in Tatar's salary so they're paying him half a million dollars to score game winning goals against them.

 

[seafoam]

I imagine Vegas was expecting Tatar to play like he has in Montreal for them based off the price they paid.

 

[Revelation]

What everyone saw from Vegas last year wasn't McPhee, it was pro scouting + players getting to start from scratch without being saddled by expected performances + tragedy to rally around. All the actual McPhee moves other than hiring Gallant (Shipachyov, Tatar trade I, Tatar trade II, Stastny) have been disastrous. He's still the Forsberg for Erat GM from his time with the caps make no mistake about it.

 

[CapSpace]

Well, guess it was about time MTL got a win, however small. I think the last time was in 1993 or something.

No we won the Ribeiro trade we got Niniim...

Oh wait.

 

[wingsfan17]

What I don’t get is Vegas’ complete inability to get any production out of anyone but their top line... Clearly Patches is a better player than this, and Tatar is showing that he is much better than Vegas was getting out of him as well.

Is this on the coaching for not switching up lines and giving players a chance? Obviously the first line is great, but I’ve always believed in the mindset if your first line gets 1.5 goals a game and your second line gets 1.5 goals a game, that’s better than your top line getting 2 and your 2nd getting .5. I think fans/coaches are sometimes too narrow minded and just want to get the best line instead of the best team.

 

[Canadian Canuck]

chicago hadn't won a cup in 50 years..until 2010 but carry on

Canucks have never won a cup...but carry on

 

[jfhabs]

Challenge accepted. (I fully agree with the rest of your post though)

The first Tartar trade was a brilliant move, that became next level moronic when they benched him and then traded him before training camp WITH MORE ASSETS for a player who - at best - gets +10 goals/year, and then gave that player an extra $2.2million dollars a year.

To elaborate, here were the big trade deadline moves last season:
Paul Stastny, UFA -> 1st, 4th + prospect
Evander Kane, UFA -> 1st (con) 4th (con) + prospect
Ryan Hartman (19 goals) + 5th -> 1st, 4th + prospect
Rick Nash, UFA (avg 19 goals in last 2 seasons) -> 1st, 7th + Spooner, Belesky and Lindgren
Derick Brassard -> 3 team trade where Pens gave up a 1st rounder solely because he was signed for 1 more year.
Grabner, UFA (25 goals) -> 2nd + Rykov

20 Goal scorer RENTAL players were fetching 1st rounders. Tartar was under contract for 3 years (at a reasonable $4.8m/yr). Bringing in a consistent 20+ goal scorer as a rental at the standard price of a 1st rounder, but then getting two full additional seasons out of him (or 1.8 seasons and then trading him at the deadline to get some assets back) while only giving up a 2nd and 3rd is brilliant. Even if you look at it from the reverse angle it seems like an even better move - trading a 3rd rounder for a 20+ goal scorer for the playoff run is way below what the rest of the league spent, and then paying TDL rates but getting entire seasons of production for the next 2 years is brilliant.

The trade even worked for Detroit because it sped up the rebuild and it was evident Tatar was not living up to his potential on the club. That's why I'll always defend that deal, it's a very rare win-win trade.

What is not brilliant is benching Tatar (especially when perron is still in the lineup) and then moving him before training camp the following season. Vegas had a high chemistry team so its not surprising that Tatar didn't fully mesh at first (but riding the bench was not going to change that). It's also apparent that Tatar being under term was key for Vegas since they had multiple veteran UFAs they expected might leave, so he was supposed to bring some stability to the roster. I was interested to see how a clean slate/full training camp would affect Tatar's role on the VGK, so when they traded him along with Suzuki and a 2nd rounder for Patches I was dumbfounded. When they immediately extended Patches for 4x$7m it confirmed everything bad every Caps fan ever said about McPhee. He doesn't give that extra year to Neal to keep him, but instead brings in a 'replacement' who has never been as impactful as Neal, pays him more and coughs up a 20 goal scorer he paid 3 high picks for plus a blue chip prospect and another high pick just for the right to pay him more. Astounding. Vegas is going to be in for some dark times once MAF retires.

EDIT: Oh and i forgot the best part, McPhee even retained $500,000 in Tatar's salary so they're paying him half a million dollars to score game winning goals against them.

I agree with everything except the part where Pacioretty was never as impactful as Neal. I think Pacioretty was more impactful from 2014-15 onward or at the very least it's understandable why a GM (McPhee) might have seen the switch as an upgrade for his team.

 

[Captain Mountain]

Well, guess it was about time MTL got a win, however small. I think the last time was in 1993 or something.

The time they traded Rivet for Gorges and the 1st they used to pick Pacioretty in the first place was pretty great.

 

[Harry Kakalovich]

Don't forget Vegas is missing Nate Schmidt who was their #1 dman last year and a really good player. They also had a bunch of guys on expiring contracts last year, and some of those guys are gone. Pacioretty is a good player - he will come around. Tatar is producing like a top 6 forward which is pretty much what everyone expected. I guess some people thought he was done but he certainly looks like a decent top 6 NHL forward now. But he is not a superstar. Patches should still outproduce him over the next 3 seasons.

As a Habs fan, I think the biggest benefit to the deal was getting rid of the "Pacioretty situation." It was obvious that the 2 sides were not going to agree to an extension and so I think everyone is better off having moved on. If Suzuki can be a good player then all the better.

Once Patches settles onto a line with some chemistry he will start creating chances and scoring goals.

 

[ole ole]

Canucks have never won a cup...but carry on

Too Bad. That's the Nucks fans ... problem but carry on.

 

[ImNeverWrong]

He may not score on the ice, but he can sure host a solid patio party.

 

[Legend123]

Don't forget Vegas is missing Nate Schmidt who was their #1 dman last year and a really good player. They also had a bunch of guys on expiring contracts last year, and some of those guys are gone. Pacioretty is a good player - he will come around. Tatar is producing like a top 6 forward which is pretty much what everyone expected. I guess some people thought he was done but he certainly looks like a decent top 6 NHL forward now. But he is not a superstar. Patches should still outproduce him over the next 3 seasons.

As a Habs fan, I think the biggest benefit to the deal was getting rid of the "Pacioretty situation." It was obvious that the 2 sides were not going to agree to an extension and so I think everyone is better off having moved on. If Suzuki can be a good player then all the better.

Once Patches settles onto a line with some chemistry he will start creating chances and scoring goals.

Once... it's almost been a quarter into the season and he still hasnt scored at a respectable rate.

 

[Dr Pepper]

He may not score on the ice, but he can sure host a solid patio party.

Hang on a second.....is that a pregnant woman holding a beer?

 

[The Great Weal]

Hang on a second.....is that a pregnant woman holding a beer?

Pacioretty's poor leadership strikes again!

 

[Mick Riddleton]

Habs won this trade, good for them

 

[Dr Pepper]

Pacioretty's poor leadership strikes again!

That monster!

 

[super6646]

He may not score on the ice, but he can sure host a solid patio party.

A++ photoshop job

Pacioretty's poor leadership strikes again!

LMAO

 

[otto bond]

Although I disliked the way Patch performed over the past year or so, he's still legit top winger if he wants to be. I think he plays to content and relies on his great shot. he's a step behind and he shouldn't be since he's a great skater, so lacks true warrior desire.

When compared to Neal, in terms of impact, I just look at where the team they played for and how far they go into the playoffs cause in the end, they bring similar skills set and size. Looks like Neal played for teams with more PO success, so give him the edge?

Tatar has been good for us Habs fans, he's quick skilled and put up points. Something didn't work out in Vegas , there lost, our gain.

 

[Lebowski]

it's too early to call habs winner in this trade, but they weren't going to give him 7+ mill during a retool. it's also painfully obvious he wasn't the right pick for C. He's moody, streaky and a floater when he isn't scoring. he plays way too much on the perimeter for a guy who's 6'2 220. he needs a set-up guy or he isn't productive. he's still a terrific special teams guy because his speed and shot wok wonders in space. i think he'll turn it around, but i'm happy he's gone and no longer C of habs

Wait, what? Pacioretty's bread and butter has always been ES scoring.

He's a dreadful PP player. Can't skate the puck, can't one-time the puck, can't pass the puck, can't really recover loose pucks either.

 

[Legend123]

Wait, what? Pacioretty's bread and butter has always been ES scoring.

He's a dreadful PP player. Can't skate the puck, can't one-time the puck, can't pass the puck, can't really recover loose pucks either.

That aint Pacs
Over the past 5 seasons,
Avg PP goals: 8
Avg PP assists: 7
For 15 pp points per season, which isnt dreadful. Nice try tho.

 

[TT1]

Well it's true, Patches is a really bad PP player.

He's done well producing in the past with just his wrister but he's been pretty pretty garbage for the past few seasons. He can't puck handle or make a proper pass if the lane is blocked, he basically has an Ovi role but he doesn't have Ovi's 1 timer.. he just has a wrist shot.

 

[Lebowski]

That aint Pacs
Over the past 5 seasons,
Avg PP goals: 8
Avg PP assists: 7
For 15 pp points per season, which isnt dreadful. Nice try tho.

Is that supposed to be impressive for someone that was handed 1st PP wave for years? He's lucky he didn't play on a team with much top end talent or he would have been pushed down the totem pole a long time ago.

Since 2012-2013, he's 110th among forwards with at least 500 minutes of PP time with 4.03 P/60.

Since 2016-2017, he's 134th among forwards with at least 200 minutes at 3.74 P/60.

I don't know why you'd even argue against the notion that Pacioretty is a poor PP player. Anyone that has watched the Habs over the years semi-regularly has seen Pacioretty fumble the puck and kill plays a lot more than you'd come to expect from a guy that was given virtually infinite leeway to produce on the 1st PP wave.