Confirmed with Link: VGK acquire Martinez for 2020 2nd, 2021 2nd from LAK

theslatcher

Registered User
Jan 5, 2016
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Sweden
So, using Capfriendly's trade machine what'd work is:

Bring up Glass, & Whitecloud if they retain 40% and get Merrill.
Bring up Roy, & Whitecloud if they retain 35% and get Merrill.
Bring up Glass if they retain 15% and get Merrill.
Bring up Roy if they retain 11% and get Merrill.
Bring up Glass, Roy, & Whitecloud if they get Eakin.

E: should not this doesn't take into account bringing up the players tomorrow instead of today, so the retention numbers will be lower.
 
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Osprey

Registered User
Feb 18, 2005
27,197
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I've read a few things in this thread and elsewhere that I feel like addressing for you.

Martinez isn't a bottom-pairing defenseman. He's a middle-pairing defenseman (i.e. a #3-4). His average ice-time this season is 21:33, and that's more than you'd like him to play, but if you're playing him only 15 minutes on the 3rd pair, you're grossly misusing him.

You're particularly misusing him if you aren't using him on the PK and PP. As Doughty said, he's a good shot blocker (i.e. why you want him on your PK) and has a good shot (i.e. why you want him on your PP). You might not necessarily want him on your #1 PK and PP units, but he should definitely be on your #2 units.

Someone said that he's "crap defensively." Defense isn't a exactly a strength, but he's not awful at it. As Doughty said, he's a two-way defenseman. He's good at defense and good at offense, but great at neither, and how good he is at either depends a lot on how good the players around him are.

It's true that he hasn't been that good these last two seasons, but there's been so much dysfunction in LA. They've had three coaches in that time and lots of system changes and defense combinations tried. He's also often been paired with a young player, which hurts both his defense and his offense. He's probably also faced a higher quality of competition than you'd ideally want him to face, since he's been the 2nd-most veteran defenseman on the team after Doughty. You don't need to shelter him, but limiting the number of times that he's out against the other teams' top players would help.

To summarize, Martinez is a middle-pairing, two-way defenseman who can contribute on the PK and PP and still has a lot to offer a team, IMO, especially a good team that doesn't have to rely on him as much as LA has had to recently. I think that he'll do well on the Knights and you guys'll be happy with him.
 
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willy702

Registered User
Jul 3, 2016
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Yeah some people are acting like they picked up Greene or Hainsey. If he were a proper #2 they would have had to pay a 1st and then some.

Holden is fine on the 2nd pairing for now, but Martinez will be a huge upgrade to the top 4.

Where are the numbers to prove it? I get it Martinez plays for a bad team and Holden a good one, but the stats show a grossly different story on possession metrics. I'm sure if Martinez played with Shea his numbers would improve while Holden playing with someone else in third pair his numbers would decline, but is it certain that Martinez at this point of his career is a better option than Holden? To me this move is a simple case of adding depth, but if everyone is healthy Martinez should be a third pair D with the capability of filling in higher if injuries strike.
 

Vegan Knight

Registered User
Feb 16, 2018
5,178
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I've read a few things in this thread and elsewhere that I feel like addressing for you.

Martinez isn't a bottom-pairing defenseman. He's a middle-pairing defenseman (i.e. a #3-4). His average ice-time this season is 21:33, and that's more than you'd like him to play, but if you're playing him only 15 minutes on the 3rd pair, you're grossly misusing him.

You're particularly misusing him if you aren't using him on the PK and PP. As Doughty said, he's a good shot blocker (i.e. why you want him on your PK) and has a good shot (i.e. why you want him on your PP). You might not necessarily want him on your #1 PK and PP units, but he should definitely be on your #2 units.

Someone said that he's "crap defensively." Defense isn't a exactly a strength, but he's not awful at it. As Doughty said, he's a two-way defenseman. He's good at defense and good at offense, but great at neither, and how good he is at either depends a lot on how good the players around him are.

It's true that he hasn't been that good these last two seasons, but the whole LA team hasn't and he's also often been paired with a young player, which hurts both his defense and hi offense. He's probably also faced a higher quality of competition than you'd ideally want him to face, since he's been the 2nd-most veteran on the team after Doughty. You don't need to shelter him, but limiting the number of times that the 32-year-old is out against the other team's #1 lines would help.

To summarize, Martinez is a middle-pairing, two-way defenseman who can contribute on the PK and PP and still has a lot to offer a team, IMO, especially a good team that doesn't have to rely on him as much as LA has had to recently. I think that he'll do well on the Knights and you guys'll be happy with him.

I don't think I have a problem with acquiring him. He's a good player and I think a few 2nds is fair, I would be upset if it also included Korczak because he was also a 2nd round pick last season and they traded a 2nd and 3rd to move up to get him!
 

CupInSIX

My cap runneth over
Jul 1, 2012
26,283
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Alphaville
Where are the numbers to prove it? I get it Martinez plays for a bad team and Holden a good one, but the stats show a grossly different story on possession metrics. I'm sure if Martinez played with Shea his numbers would improve while Holden playing with someone else in third pair his numbers would decline, but is it certain that Martinez at this point of his career is a better option than Holden? To me this move is a simple case of adding depth, but if everyone is healthy Martinez should be a third pair D with the capability of filling in higher if injuries strike.

They'd be the same non-existent numbers that show he's been overcoming a scary wrist injury since late Nov. I think he also had an injured shoulder last year he was trying to play through.

I don't share the same optimism for Holden, but why is it 1 vs the other? Martinez is clearly and upgrade over Engelland and Merrill.
 

Super Cake

Registered User
Jun 24, 2013
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I am getting the sense that either the deal fell through or la was just using the Knights to increase his value.
 

CupInSIX

My cap runneth over
Jul 1, 2012
26,283
18,254
Alphaville
ation.

Everyone accounted for at practice today. 'Cept Marty.

I guess it's official after 5pmEST.

edit: WELCOME TO LAS VEGAS, MARTY
 
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VegasKnightlife

Registered User
Aug 20, 2017
387
478
At least no prospects were moved... yet.

Still think two second round picks for an average defenseman like Martinez is an overpay, especially with the Kings not picking up part of his salary.
 

HanSolo

DJ Crazy Times
Apr 7, 2008
97,119
31,674
Las Vegas
Saying Martinez is average is unfair. He's a very solid defensive talent that immediately addresses a big problem with our defense. Maybe doesn't solve it entirely but it's certainly an upgrade over our bottom 3 defenders.

I'd agree that two second round picks is too much. Martinez was worth one.
 

willy702

Registered User
Jul 3, 2016
3,783
2,116
Capfriendly shows them over the cap now, has to be a corresponding move or some modest retention. Can they waive Engo, send him home to rest a few days, and then bring him back up once they save a little more cap space? No one is going to pick him up.
 

Vegan Knight

Registered User
Feb 16, 2018
5,178
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STL 2nd is the 2021 going the other way so that's pretty good.

This almost giving a 2nd and 3rd. I don't think it's a bad deal as long as they trade Merrill or Eakin and get anything from those deal. We even could retain 50% on Eakin and that would be enough to bring up Glass or Whitecloud.
 

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