Very quietly Ceci is actually playing very good for us.

zeke

The Dube Abides
Mar 14, 2005
66,937
36,957
Who cares at this point we have NOTHING. If Hutch plays VS Detroit on Saturday everyone will be crapping their pant leg hoping we can get a point. We should not have to be in this terrible spot.

how much money do you think we should be spending on a backup, exactly?

note that there are many much more expensive goalies than Hutch who have been as bad or worse than him this year.
 

Commander Clueless

Hiya, hiya. Pleased to meetcha.
Sep 10, 2008
15,237
2,922
how much money do you want to spend on a back up, exactly?

At this point, I'd be willing to spend a lot....but that might be desperation talking.

Hutch just isn't getting the job done and we can't afford to lose those points and can't run Freddy into the ground.

At this point, if Freddy goes down, I'm not sure we win another game this season....



Not sure on specifics but my only worry with going after another big ticket free agent would be having only league minimum available for a backup once again. Unless we get lucky like we did with McElhinney, that's likely a bad result.
 

zeke

The Dube Abides
Mar 14, 2005
66,937
36,957
At this point, I'd be willing to spend a lot....but that might be desperation talking.

Hutch just isn't getting the job done and we can't afford to lose those points and can't run Freddy into the ground.

At this point, if Freddy goes down, I'm not sure we win another game this season....



Not sure on specifics but my only worry with going after another big ticket free agent would be having only league minimum available for a backup once again. Unless we get lucky like we did with McElhinney, that's likely a bad result.

Hutch will beat the wings on saturday. don't worry.
 

Bluelines

Python FTW!
Nov 17, 2013
12,349
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Not really. He could have been on the ice for two goals that were scored by say auston matthews without contributing at all, and at the same time have had multiple give aways that freddy just made huge saves on. Its a garbage stat and should never be used except for a ' oh wow brent lebda went -3 in a 7-3 win'.

Good story bro...
 

rimshot

Registered User
Jan 10, 2010
985
215
North of South Mtn.
Ceci is an average skating defenseman, he isn't good at winning battles, he is average at everything. The biggest thing that holds Ceci back though is his hockey sense he lacks any kind of vision or deception to open the ice up aka never makes a play. Its not system related at all. He is a downgrade from Zaitsev overall but thankfully Ceci is UFA after the year. His hockey sense will not change, he wont be a Top 4 dman. He is a 1 million dollar bottom pairing d-man and that's on Dubas for not letting Ceci walk.
Is it not on the Senator's management for qualifying Ceci that was the problem? Dubas could not, by rule, walk away from the contract and that was the problem. I think it was Zaitzev for the remainder of his contract or Ceci for one year. Pick one or the other.
 

93LEAFS

Registered User
Nov 7, 2009
33,841
20,903
Toronto
If there are advanced metrics that make Ceci look good, they were probably reverse engineered to make him look good. As far as I can tell everywhere he plays he gets slaughtered in shot-based metrics outside of xGF% where he is still a negative relative to the team. Now, I'm not saying shot-based metrics are the be-all and end-all. But, when you provide a limited offense repertoire such as Ceci, they take on more importance.

He's a passable #5, but in no way should we invest anything over 1.5m a year to keep him, and given this league, I bet he'll get a somewhat better offer than that. With how Dubas has structured are salaries, the last thing we can do is overpay for depth players. Any move like that will cripple this team going forward without a significant rise in the cap. If you are going to pay the premiums they did at the top of the line-up, you need to be Bill Belichick level ruthless with the middle to lower-end players.
 
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supermann_98

Registered User
May 8, 2002
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Bump

Rather than start a new thread about Ceci and my hatred for him I searched his name and other than tonight's post-game thread this was the first thread that came up.

Anyways, I'm of the opinion that he should be immediately replaced by Liljegren and ride the pine as a 7th Dman and injury fill-in, but there are pros and cons and possible options and impossible options.

Pro's to sitting him:
- he sucks, he's showing why his defensive play was statistically the worst the in the league last year
- Liljegren is ready, let's see what he's got ffs
- he's gotten worse as the seasons gone on
- he seems much better suited to bang it up the boards and play a Polak style of game, not Keefe's possession style

Cons to sitting him:
- possibly negatively affect his trade value, if he has any at all, more on that later
- Ummm, I don't see any other cons to sitting him

Possible options:
- trade him, but it's gonna cost us sweeteners unfortunately
- send him down, I hear Robidas island is nice this time of year
- have him be the 7th guy, call up Liljegren and have Ceci draw into the lineup every once in a while, maybe a pressbox view is what he needs for a bit
- maybe dump his salary for an overpriced guy from another team, like maybe Wayne Simmonds or something, who knows you tell me
 
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Jimmy Firecracker

Fire Sheldon.
Mar 30, 2010
35,559
34,104
Mississauga
Hey Ceci,

WarmheartedOptimalHorsefly-size_restricted.gif
 

GlitchMarner

Typical malevolent, devious & vile Maple Leafs fan
Jul 21, 2017
9,712
6,432
Brampton, ON
I might actually prefer Aki Berg to this worthless waste of a roster spot. And I'm not jumping on the bandwagon. I've hated this guy as a player for quite a while. Completely incompetent and useless.
 
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Mickey Marner

Registered User
Jul 9, 2014
19,225
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Dystopia
Ceci is neither good, nor bad enough to have a stronger affect on his surroundings than his surroundings have on him.

The issue has never been with the analytics themselves -as they are impartial- but rather those who are trying to interpret them.

He's a mediocre defenseman, always has been. If you want to win the cup you probably don't employ him and if you do he's a #5-7 D.
 

The Iceman

Registered User
Sep 22, 2007
5,069
3,707
Headlines November 2019
Very quietly Ceci is actually playing very good for us.


Fast Forward Headlines Feb. 2020
Very Loudly Ceci is playing like junk for us.
 

tmlms13

Registered User
Apr 11, 2012
6,570
4,359
Waterloo, Ontario
I rarely agree with Craig Button but what he's said over and over about this team is that they have too many miscast players to be a true cup contender. You can have Ceci on your team but he needs to be put in a position where he can succeed. Cup contenders don't have those issues. You might have a properly slotted #6 defenseman making making 5m. That's better than the other way around.

GMs make mistakes but they identify them and fix them as fast as possible. They don't try to let things fix themselves.
 

Big Muddy

Registered User
Dec 15, 2019
8,583
4,085
Some folks expect a lot from even bottom pairing defenders. If he was getting paid $1.5 m and was playing a 3rd pairing role, I don't think he'd be the vitriol target he is now (to the extent he is now).

I agree that Liljegren deserves a look in the big league soon. But, the organization seems to have a plan for him (maybe just bring him along slowly). Not much we can do about that.

And, by no means should this be looked at as an endorsement for Ceci. It's just an attempt to balance perspective & expectations.
 

Morbo

The Annihilator
Jan 14, 2003
27,100
5,734
Toronto
It's so quiet that it actually looks like he's been crap for us. Think of it like a dog whistle sort of a sound.
 

Jimmy Firecracker

Fire Sheldon.
Mar 30, 2010
35,559
34,104
Mississauga
I rarely agree with Craig Button but what he's said over and over about this team is that they have too many miscast players to be a true cup contender. You can have Ceci on your team but he needs to be put in a position where he can succeed. Cup contenders don't have those issues. You might have a properly slotted #6 defenseman making making 5m. That's better than the other way around.

GMs make mistakes but they identify them and fix them as fast as possible. They don't try to let things fix themselves.

But he is being played as a bottom pairing guy. Against Florida he only had more TOI than Sandin amongst defensemen. Against Ottawa he was third but Dermott was out sick that game. Against Dallas he once again had the second least amount of TOI only coming out ahead on Sandin. Same with the game against Nashville.

That he’s still committing these costly errors with his usage just speaks to how bad a defenseman he is. Even when he’s played in a position where he should succeed the most you can hope out of him is that he doesn’t screw up and he goes unnoticed. Everyone else on defence can contribute in some way even if they aren’t stalwarts defensively.

Ceci is completely miscast on this roster for the style of play Keefe has implemented. Even if we did play a style that more suited Ceci I doubt he’d be having much more success, but his deficiencies are just more pronounced in this environment.

At least if it was Liljegren making the mistakes Ceci has made we could hope he’d learn and grow from them given his age and how his development has gone up until now. Ceci at this point is what he is. The sooner he’s off this roster the better.
 

tmlms13

Registered User
Apr 11, 2012
6,570
4,359
Waterloo, Ontario
It's more than just being the #6 it's playing with a rookie. He needs stability from his partner. And Sandin needs stability. That pair just doesn't mesh.
 

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