Very good players on very bad teams

[brachyrynchos]

Tony Amonte with Chicago 1997/98-00/01.
97-98: 82-31-42-73. 1st in assists and points, T1st w/Daze goals. Zhamnov was 2nd in points with 24 less points (49) than Amonte. Hawks finish with 73 points and miss the playoffs, they scored 192 goals that year (25th/26).
98-99: 82-44-31-75. 1st in points, 3rd in assists (Zhamnov & Gilmour) and 1st in goals. Amonte had twice as many as the #2 goalscorer Daze (22). Chicago misses the playoffs again, 70 points 202 goals scored (19th).
99-00: 82-43-41-84. 1st in points, 2nd assists (Sullivan), 1st in goals. Nylander, Daze, and Zhamnov were tied for 2nd with 23 each. No playoffs again as Chicago finishes with 78 points. 242 GF (8th).
00-01: 82-35-29-64. Tied for 2nd in points, 4th in assists, and 1st in goals. No playoffs until next year, Hawks score 210 (21st) in a 71 point season.
The Blackhawks averaged 73 points a season in that span and scored 846 goals. Amonte was 328-153-143-296, averaged 74 points per season.

 

[Ralph Spoilsport]

Wasn't Gump Worsley asked once "which team gives you the most trouble" and he answered "my own"

 

[sr edler]

99–00 Panthers were good/average. Rest of the time Bure was there they stunk though.

 

[VanIslander]

99–00 Panthers were good/average. Rest of the time Bure was there they stunk though.

He was a circle-the-blueline vulture waiting for a pass from his center Kozlov, other winger Ray Whitney or dman Robert Svehla.

 

[sr edler]

He was a circle-the-blueline vulture waiting for a pass from his center Slava Kozlov, other winger Ray Whitney or dman Robert Svehla.

Right, like Bure needed other players to set up scoring chances for himself, he couldn't do it on his own.

It was Viktor Kozlov, by the way.

 

[82Ninety42011]

Surprised nobody mentioned Marcel Dionne yet. I think he clearly wins this in land slide.

1348 games played
731 goals
1040 assists
1771 points

and only 49 playoff games total in which he put up 21 goals and 45 points.

 

[VanIslander]

Bure so often received sweet passes by his bluelne, exploding off of his cycle.

He was flashier than Bondra, but equally ineffective half the time. ... The other half of the time: highlight reel goal!

There was little more to his game.

 

[Michael Farkas]

Surprised nobody mentioned Marcel Dionne yet. I think he clearly wins this in land slide.

1348 games played
731 goals
1040 assists
1771 points

and only 49 playoff games total in which he put up 21 goals and 45 points.

He was mentioned in the very first post and talked about thereafter...

 

[Conspiracy Theorist]

Teemu Selänne. Evident when he's compared to Kane.

 

[82Ninety42011]

He was mentioned in the very first post and talked about thereafter...

My bad missed that sorry thanks for pointing out.

 

[barbu]

Joe Sakic on some of those Nordiques teams in the late 80's/early 90's.

Agreed. I watched a lot of Nordiques games in 1990-91 and 91-92. He also was a good two way player already in his early years despite the bad +/- in 90-91.

 

[The Panther]

I mean, almost all great players played on bad teams once or twice, if not more, right? The exception might be Montreal players from the mid-40s to mid-90s.

Even the 'Big Four':

Gordie Howe
Detroit 1946-47 -- .458
Detroit 1958-59 -- .414
Detroit 1959-60 -- .479
Detroit 1960-61 -- .471
Detroit 1961-62 -- .429
Detroit 1966-67 -- .414
Detroit 1967-68 -- .446
Detroit 1970-71 -- .353
Hartford 1979-80 -- .456

Bobby Orr
Boston 1966-67 -- .314
Chicago 1976-77 -- .394 (Orr played only 20 games, but I don't know the team record in these 20)

Wayne Gretzky
Edmonton 1979-80 -- .431
Edmonton 1980-81 -- .463
Los Angeles 1989-90 -- .469
Los Angeles 1993-94 -- .393
Los Angeles 1995 -- .427
Los Angeles 1995-96 -- .398 (at the time he was traded)
New York 1997-98 -- .415
New York 1997-98 -- .470

Mario Lemieux
Pittsburgh 1984-85 -- .331
Pittsburgh 1985-86 -- .475
Pittsburgh 1986-87 -- .450
Pittsburgh 2002-03 -- .396
Pittsburgh 2005-06 -- they won only 6 of the 26 final games he appeared in


If we're talking about best player to mostly play on bad teams, then -- as already mentioned -- I think Marcel Dionne is the winner. Four seasons in Detroit and missed the playoffs every year (his final year he got 121 points on a .363 team). Then, twelve seasons in L.A., with only four being .500 or more.

Then, if we're talking great player on a consistently terrible team for a shorter period (like, a few years), I think I'd go with Joe Sakic c.1989 to 1992.

What about Milt Schmidt? Didn't he play a long time for bad teams?

 

[Tarantula]

If we're talking about best player to mostly play on bad teams, then -- as already mentioned -- I think Marcel Dionne is the winner. Four seasons in Detroit and missed the playoffs every year (his final year he got 121 points on a .363 team). Then, twelve seasons in L.A., with only four being .500 or more.

I hardly call that "winning"!
I am just fooling, I get your meaning!

Milt Schmidt did win a couple of cups with the Bruins so I don't think he really belongs here. I think the real dark period in Boston was after he retired until Orr and the Trade happened.

 

[Boxscore]

Olli Jokinen.

 

[lidstromiscool]

Kyle Calder on Chicago

 

[VanIslander]

OEL.

Oliver Ekman-Larsson has always been a very good player on a very bad team. The Coyotes have failed to make the playoffs in 8 of his 9 NHL seasons.

In the 2014-15 season he had 264 shots as a dman with no other skater getting even 190! He had 7 game-winning goals that year and no one else had more than 3, the year before the rearguard had led the team in GWGs with 6 and the year after he led again for the third consecutive season with 8 game winners, double that of anyone else on the team!

And he's coming off of an average year offensively for the Arizona captain in 2018-19 with 44 points, just 3 points shy of the team leader in points! Ugh. Very bad team.

 

[Speedtrials]

Brian Leetch for the Rangers during the second half of his career. Can only imagine the numbers and awards he would have won on a team like the Devils, Redwings, Avalanche during that time.

 

[sabremike]

Sean Burke, one of my childhood heroes with the Whalers.

Right now Jack Eichel would also be a real good pick for this "honor".

 

[VanIslander]

Right now Jack Eichel would also be a real good pick for this "honor".

Ryan O' Reilly was equal to Eichel before he went to St. Louis. Thankfully for ROR, a very good player went from a very bad team to a very good team, where he proved to be the difference.

This year? Eichel 28 goals and Jeff Skinner 40 goals.

Poor Skinner comes to a weak Buffalo team after three 30+ goal seasons in Carolina, the last two of which he easily led the team by a double digit margin!

In his 9-year career, Jeff Skinner has NEVER seen the playoffs. But don't feel too sorry for him, as he now has an 8-year $72 million deal.

 

[Sentinel]

He was a circle-the-blueline vulture waiting for a pass from his center Slava Kozlov, other winger Ray Whitney or dman Robert Svehla.

Viktor Kozlov.

 

[Sentinel]

First six years Yzerman played on the Dead Wings.

Last couple years that would be Dylan Larkin.

 

[Nick Hansen]

Surprised nobody mentioned Marcel Dionne yet. I think he clearly wins this in land slide.

1348 games played
731 goals
1040 assists
1771 points

and only 49 playoff games total in which he put up 21 goals and 45 points.

To me he wasn't very good, he was great.

 

[82Ninety42011]

To me he wasn't very good, he was great.

One of the best ever really !

 

[The Panther]

First six years Yzerman played on the Dead Wings.

Hardly. Once 1986-87 got going, the 'Dead Wings' era was over. Yzerman's first three years were in that period.

 

[lakai17]

Pat Lafontaine
Peter Bondra
Alexei Yashin
JR