Verbal Shots

Discussion in 'Fugu's Business of Hockey Forum' started by Cawz, Jan 10, 2005.

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  1. Cawz

    Cawz Registered User

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    Another article from TSN, full of rhetoric. One thing that got my attention though, was the quote:

    The league tried to begin collective bargaining talks back in March 1999, more than five years before the expiration of the previous deal, but the union resisted - as was its right - waiting for the current deal to run its course.

    Is this old news? Why would the PA resist talks? If I’m a player missing paycheques, this is a question I would ask.

    http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/news_story.asp?ID=110435&hubName=nhl
     
  2. KoopsKings

    KoopsKings Registered User

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    I heard that goodenhow likes to negotiate in the 11th hour. Apparently he has really good negotiating tactics when a last second deal needs to be done. So he probly wanted to wait till the owners were desperate, thinking he was going to get a better deal. It would of been nice if they had talked 5 years ago. the owners know he wants to wait till "the 11th hour" so thats why there is no drop dead date... and one day they will come out and say the season is cancelled.
     
  3. RangerBoy

    RangerBoy Commitment To Excellence

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    It's 11:30 pm right now and the clock is ticking...fast
     
  4. PecaFan

    PecaFan Registered User

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    Yes, it's old news. Why would they resist? They were on a gravy train. An open bar. Of course you suck it all down until it's gone. I don't blame the players at all for that. They suckered the NHL into a deal that was so one sided, that they deserve the spoils.

    You might make a case however, that had they not hit it so hard, they might have been able to continue it though.
     
  5. Cawz

    Cawz Registered User

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    I dont blame the players either. I just think that if I was a player, I would wonder why the people representing my career dont seem to be negotiating in good faith.
     
  6. Brent Burns Beard

    Brent Burns Beard DontTouchMyDonskoi!

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    because, as brian burke confirmed, if the situation was reversed, the owners would have had ZERO interest in renegotiating the terms either.

    dr
     
  7. Slats432

    Slats432 Registered User

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    Maybe try to refute the point next time.

    And I do think the PA likes deadlines, because they figure that the NHL has more to lose than they do. This time, it simply isn't true.
     
  8. Wetcoaster

    Wetcoaster Guest

    Perhaps because it is not true?????

    In 1999 the NHL had just extended the CBA for a further 5 years - what was to negotiate?

    The NHLPA began an in-depth review of 4 NHL teams several years ago in preparation for bargaining. The NHL shut down the review after the NHLPA discovered $52 million in revenues not disclosed in the league URO's.

    Bettman claims that the NHLPA would not meet with the league until the eleventh hour. We now know that is untrue since the NHL and NHLPA met in secret for nine days in 2003 to discuss several proposals on luxury taxes and revenue sharing. But the talks between March 26, 2003, and June 4, 2003 -- dubbed the Blue Fin Project -- broke down when the NHL rejected a proposal from the NHLPA.
    http://www.theglobeandmail.com/serv...759533&brand=globetechnology&force_login=true

    Just more propaganda from the NHL and fans believe it. Tell a lie often enough and the people willl begin to believe it - the Josef Goebbels school of PR.
     
  9. Brent Burns Beard

    Brent Burns Beard DontTouchMyDonskoi!

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    the silence is deafing. so where is the rebuttal ? hmm ? cant claim "no link" so you guys hide ?

    Bettman is a world class liar, thats for certain.

    DR
     
  10. Digger12

    Digger12 Gold Fever

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    Kinda hard to offer a rebuttal when the link's to an article that you have to pay money for to read.

    I admit it, I'm a cheap *******. ;)
     
  11. Cawz

    Cawz Registered User

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    Well, the quote is from the Canadian Press. If it was a quote from the NHL, or an article from an author who is reputatly a NHL propaganda parrot, then I would have dismissed it as rhetoric.

    So one article says one thing, another article says another. Isnt it kind of foolish to blindly believe one side and dismiss the other as propaganda.

    Seriously, I dont know what to believe, nor do I care. I think its pretty obvious that the league is in bad financial shape, even the PA agrees with that. Aside from that, everyone should take everything they read with a grain of salt.

    I only posted this thread because I was suprised by that one statement, since it was presented as a fact instead of a quote from an NHL rep.

    Mabye you should wait longer than 20 minutes then. Not everyone lives in front of their computer.
     
  12. Wetcoaster

    Wetcoaster Guest

    The link contains a summary of the article.

    How about The Hockey News?
    In none of the previous sessions held throughout the summer of 2004, or for that matter during the secret ‘Blue Fin Project’ discussions held in 2003, were the two parties able to overcome that fundamental cost-certainty/no-cap divide. It’s believed that if no agreement is reached by the first week of January at the latest, there will be no season.
    http://www.thn.com/en/headlines/detail.asp?id=26336

    The point is Bettman has consistently claimed that the NHLPA would not meet until just before the CBA expired - that is false.
     
  13. Russian Fan

    Russian Fan Registered User

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    Well what is being said on the media just point that the NHL are in too much trouble to care about this season & it was really the ''absolute'' truth they wouldn'T have re-sign the CBA 2-3 years ago..

    I think there is dissension in both camp right now. I think the NHL won it & with a very big margin. There's place to try a new CBA for 3-4 years. Anyway if it's not working properly , at least they can show to the PA that there's weaknesses in the CBA.

    Playoff money & big revenues + not declining the business with a full season off. To me that's plenty of reasons why some of the ownership could panic. Same apply to a lot of player that didn'T have more than 2-3 years of their FULL NHL salaries.

    I'm still optimistic about a season going on in february
     
  14. Cawz

    Cawz Registered User

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    Has anyone seen anything on this? Have any specifics of this meeting been asked of Bettman or Goodenow?

    This is the first I've heard of this. I must be getting behind.
     
  15. djhn579

    djhn579 Registered User

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    There probably is some dissention, but looking at it from the perspective of a small market team owner, you have to get everything you can now. You have a deal in place where any 8 owners can defeat a CBA proposal. If they approve a CBA just to start playing, when will they get a chance like that again? Probably never.

    That means that if the CBA works okay to the point where most teams are making money, but some teams are still losing money, it could be a long time before those teams can get any problems with the CBA fixed. I can't see anything being resolved unless almost all owners agree with what is being proposed.


    I really hope we do see hockey sometime this season though...
     
  16. Digger12

    Digger12 Gold Fever

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    Yeah, a 'summary' consisting of exactly 2 sentences. I was hoping for a bit more than that.

    On the THN article you link, there's a vague reference to this blue fin project but not much else. I tried googling the reference, but the only hits I came up with were to the globe and mail article and the THN article, basically chasing my own tail here.
     
  17. me2

    me2 Calling out the crap

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    It's nothing new. If you remember back Bettman/Daly rejected the NHLPA earlier proposal (around october 04) because it was just a dodgier version of the one than the NHLPA offered in 03. I presume the one from 03 was part of "Blue Fin".

    I'm not sure what Wetcoaster is trying to prove since Bettman/Daly have publically acknowledged the 03 offer before.
     
  18. nyr7andcounting

    nyr7andcounting Registered User

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    Refute what point, that the PA isn't bargaining in good faith? I didn't even want to waste my time, but if I must...If anyone isn't bargaining in good faith it is the NHL, but even that is a stretch. To say the PA isn't is ridiculous. The players have been locked, yet they have made multiple proposals. The PA doesn't have a problem with the current CBA, they would remain status quo, and they are being locked out, they aren't on strike, yet they have sat at the table with the NHL and they have made proposals. That alone proves they are bargaining in good faith. To say they aren't is simply an example of someone who doesn't follow the situation much, sides with Bettman and the NHL and makes stupid remarks like that about the PA. There, his point has been refuted.
     
  19. Wetcoaster

    Wetcoaster Guest

    Read the first post in the thread.
     
  20. PecaFan

    PecaFan Registered User

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    This is rich. This Blue Fin crap was four years after the league asked to re-open talks.

    Call up your banker tomorrow to discuss your mortgage. When he tells you "Sure, I might call you in 2009", you're going to say he dealt with your case promptly and didn't delay? Yeah right.
     
  21. me2

    me2 Calling out the crap

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    I did. The quote in the first post in the thread came from the writer of the article and not Bettman.
     
  22. Taranis_24

    Taranis_24 Registered User

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    The NHL sat at a table and made proposals so I guess that also means that they to are negotiating in good-faith. My point anything said about one side can easily be said the same about the other. The PA says the NHL isn't bargaining in good faith because they will not come off the cap. It could also be the same about the PA because they will not discuss a cost certainty proposal.

    You are right the PA didn't have to bargain previously because they had a signed agreement. The owners now have the right not to sign a agreement they don't want or don't like just to have a season.
     
  23. Brent Burns Beard

    Brent Burns Beard DontTouchMyDonskoi!

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    the owners would not have entertained any discussions if the situation was reversed.

    period.

    dr
     
  24. membleypeg

    membleypeg Registered User

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    The blue fin project!

    Isn't it interesting to hear all the clandestine behaviour surrounding the game of hockey. I can hear the parties whispering now:

    Bettman "Bill, how are the blue fin project proposals coming?"
    Daly "Quiet Gary, we do not want to reveal this secret cost assurance before its time".
    Bettman "Do you think that Bob and Ted will agree to this change? It is good for the league isn't it?"
    Daly "Yes it is very good for the league, and the players."
    Bettman "Good, Good, we do not want to be into labour trouble come the 2004-2005 season."
    Daly "Don't worry, all will be solved long before then."
    Bettman "Great Bill, and remember The Grey Goose flies North."
     
  25. According to a Globe and Mail article last month, Saskins and Daley were negotiating last winter and last fall, when Bettman pulled the plug.
     
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