Vegas purchases AHL San Antonio

[aparch]

...and they've known that since 2001, the League has taken a dim view of that the last 30 years by 1st forcing incoming teams, expansion or not, to have an affiliation that's why Atlanta, now Winnipeg, signed on as the Wolves initial affiliation which, then in turn ended Orlando's franchise for roughly a decade. ...

Boy that's a convenient way of ignoring the fact that the DeVos family decided to keep their hometown Griffins instead of the Solar Bears when the IHL collapsed and the AHL would only admit one of the three DeVos owned IHL teams.

 

[JMCx4]

STL farm team in Charlotte, NC?

Strickland is grasping at straws - and Twitter replies - again. Next.

 

[JMCx4]

... The Silly Season really has gotten off to a real early start this year

It gets earlier every year. Global warming.

 

[axecrew]

Blues had a major part in that. In some of the earlier years of the affilation, Rattie, Jaskin, and Allen were big contributors. In the last year when they got to the 2nd round with Berube, the Blues provided all the goalies, Dunn, Blais, Barbashev, Paajarvi, etc. In all the years, the Blues provided plenty of AHL vets that were major contributors as well, guys like Butler, Agostino, Megan, etc.

The issue with Chicago just came down to the balance between prospect development and short-term performance.

So you're saying that the blues provided young up and coming players to chicago and they(chicago) did well on the ice because of that? These are some of the same players that made contributions to the blues stanley cup run last season right...in some cases big contributions? And YET all we hear from blues fans and management is Chicago doesn't care about development only winning...which is it? You can't have your cake and eat it too...either you have to acknowledge the development the wolves did with players like Edmundson,Barbashev,Allen,Blais,MacEachern,Dunn and for god sakes Binnington...or you can't tout them as the reason why the blues won the cup. And we ALL know without Binnington you don't win jack...If you think Jake Allen gets you there give your head a shake.
Hell the blues acknowledged it...they thanked chicago for what they did in developing the players they sent them.

 

[axecrew]

It is right here. I'm not sure why people are so upset about speculation. That is the whole purpose of having a site like this. Of course we don't know what is going to happen. Lots of speculation was occurring about who Vegas was going to purchase, and there were people who said there is no way it will be San Antonio. Just because people think there is no way the Blues buy a team doesn't mean the Blues won't buy a team. As you have stated, it is possible they change their mind. Is there anyone anxious to sell? No. Is there someone who would sell under the right circumstances (i.e. enough money)? Maybe - maybe not. Could St Louis force Chicago's hand as was reportedly done to Norfolk? Maybe - maybe not. I think it is fun to speculate - some people apparently don't want any speculating.

Nobody is upset about speculation...it gives us a chance to see how smart we are and how much we know...BUT when the "speculation" turns into people "reporting" things as fact based on speculation(that chicago was for sale) and that causes a team to put out an unnecessary press release to debunk that speculation...that is just wrong and has no place here

 

[bleedblue1223]

So you're saying that the blues provided young up and coming players to chicago and they(chicago) did well on the ice because of that? These are some of the same players that made contributions to the blues stanley cup run last season right...in some cases big contributions? And YET all we hear from blues fans and management is Chicago doesn't care about development only winning...which is it? You can't have your cake and eat it too...either you have to acknowledge the development the wolves did with players like Edmundson,Barbashev,Allen,Blais,MacEachern,Dunn and for god sakes Binnington...or you can't tout them as the reason why the blues won the cup. And we ALL know without Binnington you don't win jack...If you think Jake Allen gets you there give your head a shake.
Hell the blues acknowledged it...they thanked chicago for what they did in developing the players they sent them.

It's not absolute. Binnington didn't get to the caliber he's at until he went to Providence, before that he was looking like just a good minor league goalie with maybe backup potential. There is a big difference between being a really good minor league player and actually becoming a quality NHL contributor, and the difference mostly comes down to the player. I don't blame Chicago for Rattie failing, I blame Rattie. You are also ignoring all the vets the Blues signed to be in Chicago in the bigger roles. You can argue Butler was about having an 8th dman, but Agostino was never signed to be NHL depth.

The issue with Chicago is this, if you are a young player and don't produce right off the bat, it is hard to get that next chance because the main focus is about winning. The young players that were always going to make the NHL because of their ability don't really have an issue, but a guy like Kostin will struggle because he's a long-term project.

There is nothing wrong with Chicago prioritizing winning, they should prioritize winning, that's in their best interest. Chicago ownership has said this, not sure why you are taking offense to it, but lets not act like the Blues were a detriment to Chicago's success.

 

[axecrew]

It's not absolute. Binnington didn't get to the caliber he's at until he went to Providence, before that he was looking like just a good minor league goalie with maybe backup potential. There is a big difference between being a really good minor league player and actually becoming a quality NHL contributor, and the difference mostly comes down to the player. I don't blame Chicago for Rattie failing, I blame Rattie. You are also ignoring all the vets the Blues signed to be in Chicago in the bigger roles. You can argue Butler was about having an 8th dman, but Agostino was never signed to be NHL depth.

The issue with Chicago is this, if you are a young player and don't produce right off the bat, it is hard to get that next chance because the main focus is about winning. The young players that were always going to make the NHL because of their ability don't really have an issue, but a guy like Kostin will struggle because he's a long-term project.

There is nothing wrong with Chicago prioritizing winning, they should prioritize winning, that's in their best interest. Chicago ownership has said this, not sure why you are taking offense to it, but lets not act like the Blues were a detriment to Chicago's success.

I take offense to the tired old narrative that chicago doesn't care about developing players...and yet a bunch of those underdeveloped players made major contributions to a cup last year in st louis. Your binnington comment is a perfect example...you make it sound like if not for providence binnington is nothing more then a decent backup. Yet the numbers dont back that up...lets look shall we...btw source is elite...

16-17...final yr in chicago...32 games...2.71 GAA....911 save percentage...Playoffs...2 games...1.86 and 950
17-18...providence...28 games...2.05 GAA and 927 save percentage...playoffs...3 games ...4.39 and 865
Numbers when it counts are better in chicago and yet if not for providence saving his career you dont win a cup. BTW reg season numbers are almost identical...
And you wonder why I take offense to a warn out narrative.

 

[bleedblue1223]

I take offense to the tired old narrative that chicago doesn't care about developing players...and yet a bunch of those underdeveloped players made major contributions to a cup last year in st louis. Your binnington comment is a perfect example...you make it sound like if not for providence binnington is nothing more then a decent backup. Yet the numbers dont back that up...lets look shall we...btw source is elite...

16-17...final yr in chicago...32 games...2.71 GAA....911 save percentage...Playoffs...2 games...1.86 and 950
17-18...providence...28 games...2.05 GAA and 927 save percentage...playoffs...3 games ...4.39 and 865
Numbers when it counts are better in chicago and yet if not for providence saving his career you dont win a cup. BTW reg season numbers are almost identical...
And you wonder why I take offense to a warn out narrative.

In what world are those regular season numbers almost identical? And in what world do we base judgement on 2 and 3 game samples, and he didn't even start the 2 games in Chicago?

And those players didn't make major contributions. Binnington didn't take off until Providence. Blais was a solid contributor, but a bottom 6 guy. Edmundson was in and out of the lineup, Dunn was on the 3rd pair. Barbashev did have a big role on the 4th line, but he was always meant to be a top 9 guy, and he didn't really develop into that. All our major contributors were draft players that skipped the AHL or trades/free agents.

I'm not even saying it's a bad thing that Chicago prioritizes winning.

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

Boy that's a convenient way of ignoring the fact that the DeVos family decided to keep their hometown Griffins instead of the Solar Bears when the IHL collapsed and the AHL would only admit one of the three DeVos owned IHL teams.

you're also forgetting the bylaw that states only one owner per franchise, and that was why Grand Rapids was selected over Orlando and Kansas City, which that ownership operated.... why did it take the same group over a decade to reboot the Solar Bears... the League did the same thing with Roy Boe, also, when he tried to represent both Worcester and Bridgeport in league meetings

 

[210]

STL farm team in Charlotte, NC?

Huh, you don't say...

(BTW folks, the Blues still don't want to own an AHL team.)

 

[axecrew]

In what world are those regular season numbers almost identical? And in what world do we base judgement on 2 and 3 game samples, and he didn't even start the 2 games in Chicago?

And those players didn't make major contributions. Binnington didn't take off until Providence. Blais was a solid contributor, but a bottom 6 guy. Edmundson was in and out of the lineup, Dunn was on the 3rd pair. Barbashev did have a big role on the 4th line, but he was always meant to be a top 9 guy, and he didn't really develop into that. All our major contributors were draft players that skipped the AHL or trades/free agents.

I'm not even saying it's a bad thing that Chicago prioritizes winning.

Fine you're right...you win I know nothing about hockey and should never come on here again.

 

[bleedblue1223]

Fine you're right...you win I know nothing about hockey and should never come on here again.

That's not even close to what I'm saying.

Don Levin has made plenty of statements on what the objectives of the Wolves are, and there is nothing wrong with that.

 

[Clinton Comets EHL]

My sorry was for making sense...lost my head and forgot where i was for a moment.

You're one of the few who does on here, haha.

 

[Stupendous Yappi]

I don't see Blues ownership purchasing a club. I would've thought we would've heard about a bidding war of sorts for San Antonio if there were interested in purchasing a club.

It seems St Louis was caught by surprise by the transaction. I would have thought San Antonio would bring the prospect to Blues and try to create some competition. I get the sense Golden Knights just made a very attractive offer and that was that.

If they WERE caught by surprise, maybe the Blues have a more open mind about ownership now. If they end up paired with Charlotte, the proximity is, surprisingly, better. It’s actually closer than San Antonio although the time zone shift may be a bigger issue.

 

[Stupendous Yappi]

I take offense to the tired old narrative that chicago doesn't care about developing players...and yet a bunch of those underdeveloped players made major contributions to a cup last year in st louis. Your binnington comment is a perfect example...you make it sound like if not for providence binnington is nothing more then a decent backup. Yet the numbers dont back that up...lets look shall we...btw source is elite...

16-17...final yr in chicago...32 games...2.71 GAA....911 save percentage...Playoffs...2 games...1.86 and 950
17-18...providence...28 games...2.05 GAA and 927 save percentage...playoffs...3 games ...4.39 and 865
Numbers when it counts are better in chicago and yet if not for providence saving his career you dont win a cup. BTW reg season numbers are almost identical...
And you wonder why I take offense to a warn out narrative.

I don’t think the Wolves were detrimental to Blues’ players development. But their owner was vocal at not being happy with the Blues side of that partnership. To my view, St Louis signed some veteran players and actually carried a larger roster than necessary to try to accommodate the desire to have a winning AHL team. The Wolves group wasn’t satisfied with what the Blues did.

But didn’t the Blues provide the coaching staff? My recollection is that Berube was the head coach then. How could Chicago be preventing player development when the Blues’ staff were the guys making the day to day decisions?

The relationship was bad because Levin wasn’t happy with the Blues and publicly badmouthed them. It’s his right to seek a winning team, but I thought he was unprofessional to let that laundry be so public.

I’m sure the Blues would love to have better prospects to send. Every team would. But you can only develop the guys you have.

I would quibble that Binnington looked better in Providence. He’d performed at that level in the AHL before. But he didn’t look like an NHL starter until he was one. The Blues didn’t know what they had, and stated as much. He didn’t go to Providence because of Chicago per se, but because there just weren’t enough spots in nets when the Blues didn’t have an AHL affiliate. I believe they tried to assign him to the ECHL and he refused to go. It was a terrible situation, and the Blues very nearly pissed away a future starting goalie and post-season hero.

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

It seems St Louis was caught by surprise by the transaction. I would have thought San Antonio would bring the prospect to Blues and try to create some competition. I get the sense Golden Knights just made a very attractive offer and that was that.

If they WERE caught by surprise, maybe the Blues have a more open mind about ownership now. If they end up paired with Charlotte, the proximity could be a lot better. It’s actually closer than San Antonio although the time zone shift may be a bigger issue.

imagine the above actually has occurred before... 2015.....Florida had that happen in May when Arizona bought Springfield out, the next thing you saw was Portland shut off all social media, and left fans stunned that the franchise was even available to be acquired to be transferred there.... I don't think it's changed the Focus on development about owning an affiliated club..... essentially, SSE ran the business end of the Rampage

 

[bleedblue1223]

I don’t think the Wolves were detrimental to Blues’ players development. But their owner was vocal at not being happy with the Blues side of that partnership. To my view, St Louis signed some veteran players and actually carried a larger roster than necessary to try to accommodate the desire to have a winning AHL team. The Wolves group wasn’t satisfied with what the Blues did.

But didn’t the Blues provide the coaching staff? My recollection is that Berube was the head coach then. How could Chicago be preventing player development when the Blues’ staff were the guys making the day to day decisions?

The relationship was bad because Levin wasn’t happy with the Blues and publicly badmouthed them. It’s his right to seek a winning team, but I thought he was unprofessional to let that laundry be so public.

I’m sure the Blues would love to have better prospects to send. Every team would. But you can only develop the guys you have.

I would quibble that Binnington looked better in Providence. He’d performed at that level in the AHL before. But he didn’t look like an NHL starter until he was one. The Blues didn’t know what they had, and stated as much. He didn’t go to Providence because of Chicago per se, but because there just weren’t enough spots in nets when the Blues didn’t have an AHL affiliate. I believe they tried to assign him to the ECHL and he refused to go. It was a terrible situation, and the Blues very nearly pissed away a future starting goalie and post-season hero.

Chicago hired Berube, we hired Berube after he was successful with Chicago. We provided the coaching staff for San Antonio.

I don't think either side was really that detrimental to the other, my point is more so that I think most NHL teams would prefer to be affiliated with an AHL club where they have more say, even if they don't own the club.

 

[axecrew]

It seems St Louis was caught by surprise by the transaction. I would have thought San Antonio would bring the prospect to Blues and try to create some competition. I get the sense Golden Knights just made a very attractive offer and that was that.

If they WERE caught by surprise, maybe the Blues have a more open mind about ownership now. If they end up paired with Charlotte, the proximity is, surprisingly, better. It’s actually closer than San Antonio although the time zone shift may be a bigger issue.

St louis found out 30 minutes prior to the official announcement by Vegas and Spurs ent.etc

 

[UticaHockey]

Chicago hired Berube, we hired Berube after he was successful with Chicago. We provided the coaching staff for San Antonio.

I don't think either side was really that detrimental to the other, my point is more so that I think most NHL teams would prefer to be affiliated with an AHL club where they have more say, even if they don't own the club.

Wasn't Berube hired by the Blues to coach the Wolves? John Anderson before him was a Wolves hire that coached the team when they were first affiliated with St Louis. The first two seasons in the AHL the Utica Comets were in the western conference and Anderson was the coach when we played the Wolves in the playoffs....Binnington was in goal that series and was very good.

 

[axecrew]

I don’t think the Wolves were detrimental to Blues’ players development. But their owner was vocal at not being happy with the Blues side of that partnership. To my view, St Louis signed some veteran players and actually carried a larger roster than necessary to try to accommodate the desire to have a winning AHL team. The Wolves group wasn’t satisfied with what the Blues did.

But didn’t the Blues provide the coaching staff? My recollection is that Berube was the head coach then. How could Chicago be preventing player development when the Blues’ staff were the guys making the day to day decisions?

The relationship was bad because Levin wasn’t happy with the Blues and publicly badmouthed them. It’s his right to seek a winning team, but I thought he was unprofessional to let that laundry be so public.

I’m sure the Blues would love to have better prospects to send. Every team would. But you can only develop the guys you have.

I would quibble that Binnington looked better in Providence. He’d performed at that level in the AHL before. But he didn’t look like an NHL starter until he was one. The Blues didn’t know what they had, and stated as much. He didn’t go to Providence because of Chicago per se, but because there just weren’t enough spots in nets when the Blues didn’t have an AHL affiliate. I believe they tried to assign him to the ECHL and he refused to go. It was a terrible situation, and the Blues very nearly pissed away a future starting goalie and post-season hero.

The blues did provide the staff with the exception of Nardella...he is a Wolves hire.

 

[GrGriffins]

I don't see Blues ownership purchasing a club. I would've thought we would've heard about a bidding war of sorts for San Antonio if there were interested in purchasing a club.

If the Blues do not want to go back and place their prospects with the Chicago Wolves for the 2020-21 AHL season, then the Blues would have to purchase an existing AHL team (either from an independent owner or from an NHL team that owns an AHL team) to make it happen. The Blues have 2 options and if they want to purchase an AHL team and not end up being with the Chicago Wolves, they have about 30-60 days to accomplish that because AHL teams at the moment (or within the next month) are starting their season ticket renewals for the 2020-21 season. The longer the Blues wait, then it gives less time to promote their AHL team for next season (if they do end up purchasing a team).

If you do not see the Blues purchasing an AHL club, then the Blues will end up sending their prospects to the Chicago Wolves for next season. That has not been determined at this time. The Blues were caught with their pants down figuring that they will be in San Antonio for the next 4 seasons and when Vegas was wanting to purchase a team for their own, Vegas went to San Antonio and must have made the Spurs an offer they could not refuse and sold the Rampage to Vegas in the fashion that they did. Now the Blues are in a panic (pretty much like going Christmas shopping and waiting until Christmas Eve to get it all done) and they are hoping that someone is willing to sell them a franchise.

Even if the Blues do come away with a purchase of a AHL franchise real soon, where would they place their AHL team? You have a nice untouched arena in Kansas City that would be the ideal place for the Blues to put their AHL team there. But they might have problems with that as Lamar Hunt Jr. owns the ECHL Kansas City Mavericks in Independence, MO (about 15 miles from Kansas City). The Blues wanted him to purchase the AHL franchise that was available for Vegas when the Golden Knights came into the NHL a couple of seasons ago and Vegas did not want to own the AHL franchise at that time and Lamar did not want to purchase the AHL franchise because it would force him to close up shop with the ECHL team.

Then you have Peoria, who the Blues have had teams in the IHL, AHL, and ECHL and they have burned their welcome there. The Rivermen currently has a SPHL team there and is doing well in that league (except they can not win in the playoffs). Or could the Blues end up purchasing an AHL team and temporarily set up shop in St. Louis for a season until they find a more permanent place for their AHL team to play at. Interesting to see how this plays out.

 

[bleedblue1223]

Wasn't Berube hired by the Blues to coach the Wolves? John Anderson before him was a Wolves hire that coached the team when they were first affiliated with St Louis. The first two seasons in the AHL the Utica Comets were in the western conference and Anderson was the coach when we played the Wolves in the playoffs....Binnington was in goal that series and was very good.

From everything I remember and stuff that I looked up, it makes it seem like Berube was a Wolves hire, maybe I'm not remembering correctly though.

 

[bleedblue1223]

If the Blues do not want to go back and place their prospects with the Chicago Wolves for the 2020-21 AHL season, then the Blues would have to purchase an existing AHL team (either from an independent owner or from an NHL team that owns an AHL team) to make it happen. The Blues have 2 options and if they want to purchase an AHL team and not end up being with the Chicago Wolves, they have about 30-60 days to accomplish that because AHL teams at the moment (or within the next month) are starting their season ticket renewals for the 2020-21 season. The longer the Blues wait, then it gives less time to promote their AHL team for next season (if they do end up purchasing a team).

If you do not see the Blues purchasing an AHL club, then the Blues will end up sending their prospects to the Chicago Wolves for next season. That has not been determined at this time. The Blues were caught with their pants down figuring that they will be in San Antonio for the next 4 seasons and when Vegas was wanting to purchase a team for their own, Vegas went to San Antonio and must have made the Spurs an offer they could not refuse and sold the Rampage to Vegas in the fashion that they did. Now the Blues are in a panic (pretty much like going Christmas shopping and waiting until Christmas Eve to get it all done) and they are hoping that someone is willing to sell them a franchise.

Even if the Blues do come away with a purchase of a AHL franchise real soon, where would they place their AHL team? You have a nice untouched arena in Kansas City that would be the ideal place for the Blues to put their AHL team there. But they might have problems with that as Lamar Hunt Jr. owns the ECHL Kansas City Mavericks in Independence, MO (about 15 miles from Kansas City). The Blues wanted him to purchase the AHL franchise that was available for Vegas when the Golden Knights came into the NHL a couple of seasons ago and Vegas did not want to own the AHL franchise at that time and Lamar did not want to purchase the AHL franchise because it would force him to close up shop with the ECHL team.

Then you have Peoria, who the Blues have had teams in the IHL, AHL, and ECHL and they have burned their welcome there. The Rivermen currently has a SPHL team there and is doing well in that league (except they can not win in the playoffs). Or could the Blues end up purchasing an AHL team and temporarily set up shop in St. Louis for a season until they find a more permanent place for their AHL team to play at. Interesting to see how this plays out.

We will absolutely go to the Wolves before purchasing a club IMO.

LHJ won't let an AHL club come in and compete with the Mavericks, Independence is just a KC suburb. I also don't see the city being up for a minor league team use the Sprint Center. Sprint has way more value in being open every single weekend for concerts and other events.

 

[210]

From everything I remember and stuff that I looked up, it makes it seem like Berube was a Wolves hire, maybe I'm not remembering correctly though.

He was hired by the Wolves. The Blues press release on him being named Chicago's head coach makes no mention of the Blues hiring him.

Berube Named Head Coach of the Wolves

 

[aparch]

you're also forgetting the bylaw that states only one owner per franchise, and that was why Grand Rapids was selected over Orlando and Kansas City, which that ownership operated.... why did it take the same group over a decade to reboot the Solar Bears... the League did the same thing with Roy Boe, also, when he tried to represent both Worcester and Bridgeport in league meetings

Nope, pretty sure I covered that when I said the AHL would only allow ONE DeVos owned franchise.

And the DeVos family didnt "take a decade" to reboot the franchise. Three separate people formed Orlando Pro Hockey Operations and acquired an ECHL franchise to restart hockey in Orlando. They sold the team to the DeVos family after five years because they were losing money and didn't want to lose pro hockey in Orlando again so quick.


But why let facts get in the way.