Vegas=Optimism. This is a retool.

[Hawkaholic]

Vegas was a very well-coached team. The Blackhawks are not.

If he is such a great coach that can make an expansion team look like world beaters how come when he coached Florida the team was still awful?

 

[BobbyJet]

/\ Some folks will make any argument to defend Q or Stan. Not biting.

 

[x Tame Impala]

If he is such a great coach that can make an expansion team look like world beaters how come when he coached Florida the team was still awful?

The 2017-18 Las Vegas Knights were a very well coached team. I'm not talking about Florida.

That works both ways FYI...if Q is such a great coach how come he can coach a team to a Division title and then get swept? One season doesn't define a coach

 

[Hawkaholic]

/\ Some folks will make any argument to defend Q or Stan. Not biting.

Can you show me where I defended Q or Stan, anywhere? Didn't think so.
I'm just not giving full credit to Gallant for Vegas' success like you, in particular, do.

 

[ChiHawks10]

The 2017-18 Las Vegas Knights were a very well coached team. I'm not talking about Florida.

That works both ways FYI...if Q is such a great coach how come he can coach a team to a Division title and then get swept? One season doesn't define a coach

And in an embarrassing fashion, no less.

If he is such a great coach that can make an expansion team look like world beaters how come when he coached Florida the team was still awful?

Gallant wasn't the issue in Florida...

On June 21, 2014, he was named head coach of the NHL's Florida Panthers by then executive vice president and general manager, Dale Tallon.[22] In his first season, he led the Panthers to a record of 38 wins, 29 losses, 5 overtime losses, and 10 shoot-out losses for 91 points. The record was an improvement of 9 wins and 25 points over the prior season. In 2015–16, Gallant led the upstart Panthers to a 24–12–4 record at the All-Star break, earning him a spot in the all-star game as the head coach for the Atlantic Division All-Stars. The Panthers finished with a club-record 47 wins and 103 points, enough for the second division title in franchise history. For his efforts, Gallant was named as a finalist for the Jack Adams Award.[23] On November 27, 2016, Gallant was fired by new Panthers general manager Tom Rowe after posting an 11–10–1 record to start the season.

How does any of the above say that the team was awful when he coached Florida? Letting Gallant go from Florida was the dumbest thing they could have done.

 

[Hawkaholic]

The 2017-18 Las Vegas Knights were a very well coached team. I'm not talking about Florida.

That works both ways FYI...if Q is such a great coach how come he can coach a team to a Division title and then get swept? One season doesn't define a coach

I don't credit coaches near as much as some others do for wins and losses.
Q can coach a team to a division title and lose in the first round because the team isn't near as good as it used to be.

 

[ChiHawks10]

I don't credit coaches near as much as some others do for wins and losses.
Q can coach a team to a division title and lose in the first round because the team isn't near as good as it used to be.

Or it can be that he didn't make any adjustments to anything in his systems/game-planning in that entire series, and just tried to go with what he had done that worked in the past against the Preds. The Preds, and the rest of the NHL, got wise to Q and how he did things. He hasn't adjusted. In 3+ years...

 

[Hawkaholic]

And in an embarrassing fashion, no less.





Gallant wasn't the issue in Florida...

On June 21, 2014, he was named head coach of the NHL's Florida Panthers by then executive vice president and general manager, Dale Tallon.[22] In his first season, he led the Panthers to a record of 38 wins, 29 losses, 5 overtime losses, and 10 shoot-out losses for 91 points. The record was an improvement of 9 wins and 25 points over the prior season. In 2015–16, Gallant led the upstart Panthers to a 24–12–4 record at the All-Star break, earning him a spot in the all-star game as the head coach for the Atlantic Division All-Stars. The Panthers finished with a club-record 47 wins and 103 points, enough for the second division title in franchise history. For his efforts, Gallant was named as a finalist for the Jack Adams Award.[23] On November 27, 2016, Gallant was fired by new Panthers general manager Tom Rowe after posting an 11–10–1 record to start the season.

How does any of the above say that the team was awful when he coached Florida? Letting Gallant go from Florida was the dumbest thing they could have done.

I shouldn't have said awful..but

Did I say Gallant was the issue?
All I am saying is he isn't some saviour as a coach. Yes, it was a dumb decision to dump him, but Gallant is not the reason they were a good team.

 

[Hawkaholic]

Or it can be that he didn't make any adjustments to anything in his systems/game-planning in that entire series, and just tried to go with what he had done that worked in the past against the Preds. The Preds, and the rest of the NHL, got wise to Q and how he did things. He hasn't adjusted. In 3+ years...

I'm sure that's part of it, but the roster isn't near as good as it was 3+ years ago either, not even close.

 

[ChiHawks10]

I shouldn't have said awful..but

Did I say Gallant was the issue?
All I am saying is he isn't some saviour as a coach. Yes, it was a dumb decision to dump him, but Gallant is not the reason they were a good team.

He's a big part of it.

And yeah. Nothing about that is awful. Significant improvement year one. Division winner year two. Fired after starting .500 year 3....

 

[Hawkaholic]

He's a big part of it.

And yeah. Nothing about that is awful. Significant improvement year one. Division winner year two. Fired after starting .500 year 3....

He's a small part of it, the players are a big part of it.

 

[ChiHawks10]

He's a small part of it, the players are a big part of it.

Agree to disagree. Don't disagree the players are a big part. The coach is also a big part. I feel like you continually downplay what good coaching and systems can do for a team.

 

[x Tame Impala]

I shouldn't have said awful..but

Did I say Gallant was the issue?
All I am saying is he isn't some saviour as a coach. Yes, it was a dumb decision to dump him, but Gallant is not the reason they were a good team.

Not THE reason, sure. But I think you're being disingenuous in implying that a team full of castaways that fans almost unanimously predicted to be one of the worst teams ever, but instead made it all the way to game 5 of the SCF, got there with happenstance coaching.

Gallant was a huge reason for their success and it honestly seems like the only reason you're even making this point is because of the correlation I made with Vegas' success and the Hawks struggles with Q.

 

[Hawkaholic]

Not THE reason, sure. But I think you're being disingenuous in implying that a team full of castaways that fans almost unanimously predicted to be one of the worst teams ever, but instead made it all the way to game 5 of the SCF, got there with happenstance coaching.

Gallant was a huge reason for their success and it honestly seems like the only reason you're even making this point is because of the correlation I made with Vegas' success and the Hawks struggles with Q.

Or, maybe, just maybe, the players were better than everyone thought they were? And maybe, the players ALL had a chip on their shoulder and went out and performed far beyond how the had performed in the past because of said chip.
And they got to the SCF playing behind a brick wall, basically.

Coaching played a part, but coaching seems to always be given far too much credit or blame when things go right, or go wrong.

 

[Rolo]

At first glance, I thought the thread title was "Vegan=Optimism" and it was about Toews.

 

[Marotte Marauder]

Or, maybe, just maybe, the players were better than everyone thought they were? And maybe, the players ALL had a chip on their shoulder and went out and performed far beyond how the had performed in the past because of said chip.
And they got to the SCF playing behind a brick wall, basically.

Coaching played a part, but coaching seems to always be given far too much credit or blame when things go right, or go wrong.

So everyone was wrong about every player? Yeah that sounds reasonable.

Wonder how Q might have done with that roster.

 

[BobbyJet]

So everyone was wrong about every player? Yeah that sounds reasonable.

Wonder how Q might have done with that roster.

Exactly!

 

[DisgruntledHawkFan]

Vegas wasn’t all cast offs. Teams had to lose somebody. Every team in the league would love to add a Miller, Schmidt, Tuch, or Theodore.

 

[Blackhawkswincup]

The 2017-18 Las Vegas Knights were a very well coached team. I'm not talking about Florida.

That works both ways FYI...if Q is such a great coach how come he can coach a team to a Division title and then get swept? One season doesn't define a coach

It happens

Sorta like how this boards favorite Mike Babcock had a essentially allstar team go 58-16-8 with 124 pts capturing Presidents trophy and losing to lowly 41-28-13 with 95 pts Oilers team in embarrassing fashion in 1st round

Its the biggest flop in NHL history for regular season champ

That Wing team was regarded as one of the greatest teams in history heading into that playoffs

So as you point out one season doesn't define a coach

 

[BK]

It happens

Sorta like how this boards favorite Mike Babcock had a essentially allstar team go 58-16-8 with 124 pts capturing Presidents trophy and losing to lowly 41-28-13 with 95 pts Oilers team in embarrassing fashion in 1st round

Its the biggest flop in NHL history for regular season champ

That Wing team was regarded as one of the greatest teams in history heading into that playoffs

So as you point out one season doesn't define a coach

Babcock shine is coming off quickly. It was coming off in Detroit as welll.

 

[BobbyJet]

Babcock shine is coming off quickly. It was coming off in Detroit as welll.

Right.

 

[BK]

Right.

Might want actually listen some of the beat guys in Detroit and Toronto. The vets in Detroit got tired of his act and it is not just a random story that Matthews was less than happy. Dude is a damn good coach but the reports of his issues are pretty widely reported. Shelf life like the rest of the coaches in the NHL.

 

[DisgruntledHawkFan]

Babcock isn’t an easy guy to play for.

 

[BobbyJet]

/\ I live in the outskirts of Toronto. I hear it all. It sounds to me like Mathews is getting a bit big headed for his own good. He probably took a temper tantrum when Tavares was signed.

Babcock is a no-nonsense coach who wants to win and refuses to put a player above the rest of the team.

Sort of the opposite of a country club.

 

[BK]

/\ I live in the outskirts of Toronto. I hear it all. It sounds to me like Mathews is getting a bit big headed for his own good. He probably took a temper tantrum when Tavares was signed.

Babcock is a no-nonsense coach who wants to win.

I don't think you do hear it all if that is your stance.

Or he was tired of being dicked around like he and a few others were last season. Marner playing with Martin was a f***ing joke.

Babcock flew to Matthews and not the other way around.

You think it is random that the vets in Detroit spoke about the same issues?

Babcock is widely know for his head games and stubbornness.

Again, he is a damn good coach but he has some widely reported issues with players.