Proposal: Vegas/NYR

[HanSolo]

Much better response.

I was going to follow up with the same kind of response. I was just trying to see just how familiar KA is with Tuch to make such a definitive statement. I was expecting him to at least make some claim about the player and then I'd share my personal impressions, but I fell asleep.

I think there's a categorical difference between saying Tuch doesn't seem all that special to me and Tuch isn't anything special. It should have been plainly obvious from my language that I wasn't trying to academically compare notes on the guy, but to assert that it's a little silly to make such a definitive judgment on a player with only 1 year of experience after what I can only presume is a small handful of games of his watched at best.

Also, people ask others to prove negatives here all the time. Not sure what the issue is.

What is he, your son?

I didn't say he was bad.

Why don't you explain what makes him special that i'm apparently missing?

I'm far more interested in what it is about him that you think makes him, as a guy fresh off his rookie year, nothing special.

I'm asking you to back it up. You don't have to if you don't want, of course. It's within your rights to ignore me. I just want to hear the justification. I know I can't add much more than Derriko except to say that Tuch is uniquely fast for a guy his size who opts to play a prototypical PWF style game. But even with that one factoid I've provided more analysis than you.

 

[Hunter Gathers]

Also, people ask others to prove negatives here all the time. Not sure what the issue is.

People ask people to do a lot of dumb things all the time. Not sure why that makes it right.

 

[HanSolo]

People ask people to do a lot of dumb things all the time. Not sure why that makes it right.

What exactly is so wrong about it? I take exception to his opinion on the ground that I feel it's unfounded. I know why I think he's wrong. But that's irrelevant. I don't care to try to educate him as to why, I just want to hear his reasoning. I'm not the possessor of the opinion, I'm challenging the grounds for it.

 

[Kshahdoo]

You're vastly overeating zucc here

I'm not even Rangers fan, but I doubt Tuch will ever become as good as Zucc. Of course he's big and all and will probably score 50+ points one day, but that's what he is and nothing better. Zucc can score as much with your glorious 3rd-liners.

 

[Prairie Habs]

I'm not even Rangers fan, but I doubt Tuch will ever become as good as Zucc. Of course he's big and all and will probably score 50+ points one day, but that's what he is and nothing better. Zucc can score as much with your glorious 3rd-liners.

So 6'4 22 year old who has many years of team control left who you think will score 50+ points

vs

5'8 31 year old pending UFA who has scored between 49 and 61 points his entire career

I have no clue what you're trying to say in that last line.

 

[KarmaPolice]

Vegas laughs at you then hangs up.

Then calls back to laugh again. Then blocks the number.

 

[cwede]

the NHL is full of guys who woulda/coulda/shoulda put up >50 points ...
but never did, or only in a special year

Tuch has size and youth on his side, i wouldn't completely hate this trade

but Zucc is part of the identity of this team, and a favorite to watch
i am not in a hurry for him to leave
i'd even be glad to to re-up him for a years into the turnaround

last year around TDL they talked about NYR bringing back Nash or Grabner,
i don't mind that they didn't

if they move Zucc as a rental (relax, i don't mean for Tuch necessarily) ,
i'd be fine with he and Gorts doing 'an Aroldis Chapman,' reuniting once UFA

 

[CupInSIX]

I don't think anyone is saying Zuccarello isn't a very good hockey player. In fact I wouldn't mind if he signed for 2 years at a decent cap hit next offseason (to play RW behind Tuch)

 

[Hunter Gathers]

What exactly is so wrong about it? I take exception to his opinion on the ground that I feel it's unfounded. I know why I think he's wrong. But that's irrelevant. I don't care to try to educate him as to why, I just want to hear his reasoning. I'm not the possessor of the opinion, I'm challenging the grounds for it.

You can feel free to take exception to whatever you want to. The fact of the matter is that the burden is on you to prove your point. If you would rather avoid it, be honest about it rather than defending the initial post.

 

[HanSolo]

You can feel free to take exception to whatever you want to. The fact of the matter is that the burden is on you to prove your point. If you would rather avoid it, be honest about it rather than defending the initial post.

The burden would be on me if I cared to change his mind. I don't.

I just had a curiosity to find out if he had any analytical framework for his conclusion or if he's just statline watching.

 

[One Winged Angel]

I was going to follow up with the same kind of response. I was just trying to see just how familiar KA is with Tuch to make such a definitive statement. I was expecting him to at least make some claim about the player and then I'd share my personal impressions, but I fell asleep.

I think there's a categorical difference between saying Tuch doesn't seem all that special to me and Tuch isn't anything special. It should have been plainly obvious from my language that I wasn't trying to academically compare notes on the guy, but to assert that it's a little silly to make such a definitive judgment on a player with only 1 year of experience after what I can only presume is a small handful of games of his watched at best.

Also, people ask others to prove negatives here all the time. Not sure what the issue is.

I'm far more interested in what it is about him that you think makes him, as a guy fresh off his rookie year, nothing special.

I'm asking you to back it up. You don't have to if you don't want, of course. It's within your rights to ignore me. I just want to hear the justification. I know I can't add much more than Derriko except to say that Tuch is uniquely fast for a guy his size who opts to play a prototypical PWF style game. But even with that one factoid I've provided more analysis than you.

All of that is fine, but it simply comes down to him asking you a simple question. Which was answered by someone else beforehand.

 

[One Winged Angel]

I think the Rangers can get a 1st and a prospect for Zuccarello at the deadline. A player who has been a 50-60 point player the last 5 seasons who plays very underrated two way hockey and shows up come playoff time will he wanted around the NHL.

Not saying Tuch is a bad player, but he's been overrated based on potential (which I see) but hasn't achieved yet. He could easily either stay at this level this upcoming season or have a sophomore slump. Most sophomores are wild cards. Conditioning plays a huge factor as well, getting used to the grind of an NHL schedule and he didn't have a ton of time off this offseason going to the finals.

With all of that said, Vegas shouldn't do this trade. It wouldn't be smart asset management. You don't deal a 22 year old budding power forward who can actually skate well for a 31 year old UFA to be unless he's an elite piece or definitely that last piece that puts you over the top. I love Zuccarello, but Vegas needed Erik Karlsson.

 

[Lays]

I’d do it as a Rangers fan
Zucc is extremely underrated but I do love what Tuch brings

 

[Ori]

Tuch was a steal for Vegas and no doubts about that who was unprotected, but concerning value we need draft picks in return since we are rebuilding and value right now is early draft picks for us in 2019. Tuch is not enough for a player like Mats Zuccarello even though there are years differences between them. One thing is expectations concerning a young player like Tuch, but as some mentioned here already he could produce less compare to his great last season - so it`s no guarantee that he will be a 60 pts. players in the next 2 years. And in value trade Gorton need facts and accurate numbers to get a fair trade value wise.

 

[CupInSIX]

Tuch was a steal for Vegas and no doubts about that who was unprotected, but concerning value we need draft picks in return since we are rebuilding and value right now is early draft picks for us in 2019. Tuch is not enough for a player like Mats Zuccarello even though there are years differences between them. One thing is expectations concerning a young player like Tuch, but as some mentioned here already he could produce less compare to his great last season - so it`s no guarantee that he will be a 60 pts. players in the next 2 years. And in value trade Gorton need facts and accurate numbers to get a fair trade value wise.

I'm expecting Tuch to become the Knights #1RW in the future so either way it doesn't matter if you think he's not as good a return as say a 2019 1st and 3rd. He looked like a young Blake Wheeler last year.

The Rangers would never, ever get him for Zucc.

 

[tradenashnow]

You don't even know what a young Blake Wheeler looked like.

 

[Ori]

@MordredGK Yes, but my point with the whole value arguement is stats is one thing and what we expect or a player expectations is something completely different. And sometimes expectations not always turn out what we wish for him. But one thing Tuch is more NHL ready compare to a future 1st pick so I understand Vegas not enjoy the thoughts to move him for Mats.

 

[CupInSIX]

As a Rangers fan, I'd want more

Its not as if Zuccs would be a tough re-sign or that he wouldn't want back in NYC to help the rebuild.

Hockey trade or pass and Tuch is not a fair return

You don't even know what a young Blake Wheeler looked like.

lol

 

[Ignite111]

Am I missing something here why would vegas ever do this lol. Trade a younger similar in production player with a decent contract for a half year rental. Ranger fans can argue zucc is a little better now and they may be right but Vegas would be insane to do this. I don’t know how anyone is even siding with zucc on this one

 

[jw2]

Am I missing something here why would vegas ever do this lol. Trade a younger similar in production player with a decent contract for a half year rental. Ranger fans can argue zucc is a little better now and they may be right but Vegas would be insane to do this. I don’t know how anyone is even siding with zucc on this one

Thread creation date? but no.

 

[DutchNYR]

I want to know how you, someone who clearly doesn't watch...at least as much as I have, have arrived at such a conclusion. Because the impression I get is you just pulled up his stats and made presumptions.

Hey there girl, get off your high horse.

I wouldn’t do Tuch for Zucc either if I were Vegas, but your reaction is pompous to say the least.

 

[Ignite111]

Thread creation date? but no.

Haha my mistake, Sorry about this

 

[LokiDog]

Tuch isn’t anything special, not trading Zucc for him , rebuilding or not

Tuch is basically Kreider with much better hands. He’s 6’4 220+, very fast, physical, great hands.

He’s 22 years old with 40 points in 51 games, 64 point pace. A signed Tuch for a UFA 31 year old Zucc is a joke. Vegas doesn’t even contemplate it.

Edit/ didn’t see how old this thread was.

 

[HanSolo]

Hey there girl, get off your high horse.

I wouldn’t do Tuch for Zucc either if I were Vegas, but your reaction is pompous to say the least.

Noted. I still stand by my assertion that Tuch isn't some average asset.

 

[eco's bones]

I would absolutely do Zuccarello for Tuch. I'm just wondering why Vegas would.

Okay---this is old.