Friedman: Vegas as Karlsson's biggest suitor?

[Tkachuk27]

Just go take a look at Dorions trades and what UFA players get traded for. History tells us this would be an incredible return for Karlsson unfortunately. I dont dissagree he is a top 5 player but there are other factors at play.

One huge factor and scary on is Dorion just making this trade

 

[Qward]

That would be fine with me. Gets Glass in at the ground level faster. I've been saying all year that I can't wait for young Cody to replace current Cody. Not that Eakin isn't a great penalty killer and he is still good at applying offensive pressure, but he does some really stupid things with the puck at times where he should be shooting or making a pass quicker.

Sounds like he would fit in perfectly with Ottawas powerplay

 

[DANTHEMAN1967]

There has been very little in the way of developments other than reports that the Senators consider keeping EK without an extension as an option going into the 18-19 season rather than having to either sign or trade Karlsson prior to the season starting. This has been reported by both Garrioch and Lebrun.

I could see Melnyk doing this to try and avoid the Sens being so bad as to potentially give up the 1st overall pick to Colorado.

 

[SpezDispenser]

Perron was a healthy scratch in the playoffs... Sighting him as the reason they were good is not a genuine reflection of why they were successful. No I dont expect Karlsson to score 40 but I do expect him to score 30 and for Tuch to score 10 more goals than he did last year with Tatar moving into Perron's spot. They play great team defense, because they have the puck all the time. They are just like team Canada from the WJC deep, fast, puck moving D that jump into the play all the time while they roll 4 lines and 6 d. Thats the new NHL.

I like their style as well, always have liked Galant as a coach, but Perron was one of several huge reasons the Knights made the playoffs with Karlsson's ridiculous 43 goals as another and MAF's stunning save %. Plus...another year, more teams get wise and adjust their gameplans, more teams in the West get stronger (theoretically weaker too, I guess). I'm curious to see where they end up - will either of us remember to revisit this at the end of next season? I'll likely forget as of the morrow.

 

[SpezDispenser]

Thought of Dorion making this trade scaries me

As it should. I fully expect a 1st rounder, 2nd rounder and Cody Eakin with Dorion saying 'well, the market just wasn't there!'.

 

[bert]

I like their style as well, always have liked Galant as a coach, but Perron was one of several huge reasons the Knights made the playoffs with Karlsson's ridiculous 43 goals as another and MAF's stunning save %. Plus...another year, more teams get wise and adjust their gameplans, more teams in the West get stronger (theoretically weaker too, I guess). I'm curious to see where they end up - will either of us remember to revisit this at the end of next season? I'll likely forget as of the morrow.

Haha me too, but its a fun topic of discussion. I really enjoyed watching them this season, with the sens being so bad and being a Golden Knight for over 11 hockey seasons of my life it was a natural team to gravitate towards. They were on late and after the sens and were just such a contrast I really liked watching them.

 

[Vegan Knight]

I like their style as well, always have liked Galant as a coach, but Perron was one of several huge reasons the Knights made the playoffs with Karlsson's ridiculous 43 goals as another and MAF's stunning save %. Plus...another year, more teams get wise and adjust their gameplans, more teams in the West get stronger (theoretically weaker too, I guess). I'm curious to see where they end up - will either of us remember to revisit this at the end of next season? I'll likely forget as of the morrow.

Karlsson might get 'only' 30 goals next year but Tuch should absolutely get more to help make up for that. Marchessault is as legit as they come for his production and Reilly Smith also missed a lot of games at the end of the season or he could have had more points.

Neal gave us 44 points last year and I'm sure Tatar can come close to that next season, he had 34 in a down year this year while he had to adjust to a new team.

MAF missed a ton of games last year, and a lot of his saves were due to a sound defensive system that limited the number of high quality chances and he made the saves a goalie should make. He did not carry this team at all.

Perron's 66 regular season points are what Vegas needs to look at replacing. Perron himself probably wouldn't be able to reproduce that so Vegas definitely needs a top 6 forward help for next season. But there's cap space available.

Besides that one top 6 forward upgrade, Vegas is very well set up to be a playoff team and even Pacific Division contender again next year. Especially if they get EK but even if they don't.

LA, SJ, EDM, CGY, ARZ, VAN all don't look any better than Vegas. If you can be competitive at the top of your division, you could easily find yourself one series away from the SCF.

 

[Langdon Alger]

I think it's gonna come down to something like....

Karl (Extension talked over, ready to be signed July 1st)
Ryan

Haula
Theodore
One of Suzuki or Brannstrom or Hague (Not Glass)
2019 VGK 1st
2019 VGK 3rd
2020 VGK 2nd
David Clarkson (Insured, cap dump)

The deal will get done June 30th right down to the wire before Ryan's signing bonus has to be paid. Ottawa is going to want players who can step in now, but also help for the next 3-5 seasons. Hence Haula and Theodore. While I personally don't think Haula is a first line type producer, he had 29 goals/55 points so he could be sold to the Sens season ticket base and fans as a major piece and a player ready to come in and replace Hoffman's production that we lost for Boedker. It also helps that he is locked down at a fantastic salary for the next two seasons. Theodore is a young mid pairing D with top pairing potential.

Vegas will still have two seconds and two thirds in the 2019 draft. They'll have their 1st along with two seconds in 2020.

Dorion would probably try to sell that return like we got a 1st line C, a young superstar D, and then draft picks for Karlsson. Keep in mind, I don't think that's entirely true, it's just how the trade would be sold. The most complicated aspect I can see for Vegas is that Ryan is not reliable due to his injury history, and if they lose both Perron+Neal, losing Haula on top of that means Vegas would have lost 3 of their top forwards and replaced them with an often injured Ryan and a so far under performing Tatar.

My proposal would be

Karlsson
Ryan

Theodore/Miller
Tuch
Glass/Suzuki/Brannstrom
2019 first
Clarkson
Eakin

 

[Hasbro]

LOL;

Elliott on his worst day can't look as bad as Eklund, who can safely be labeled as looking like a perpetual fool, except that's being unfair to perpetual fools...

View attachment 127005

Eklund is Kid Rock!

Sounds like Glass is a no go, the inverse to the notion to "the team that gets the best player wins the deal" for the Sens the best single asset they can get is probably the best salvage. Realistically the best piece they might have a shot at getting back is their 2019 1st.

 

[HanSolo]

I like their style as well, always have liked Galant as a coach, but Perron was one of several huge reasons the Knights made the playoffs with Karlsson's ridiculous 43 goals as another and MAF's stunning save %. Plus...another year, more teams get wise and adjust their gameplans, more teams in the West get stronger (theoretically weaker too, I guess). I'm curious to see where they end up - will either of us remember to revisit this at the end of next season? I'll likely forget as of the morrow.

Erm. As someone who watched the team Perron is relatively low on the reasons why the team made the playoffs in my book compared to others. Yes he had a lot of points but he was only really a difference maker in the first third or so of the season. For me I'd rank them like

Marchessault

Karlsson (was instrumental in keeping our offense alive while we had a revolving door of injuries to Marchessault, Smith, Neal, Perron down the stretch)

Fleury (great season but arguably a truncated one. We won the division just as much from his contribution as we did from Subban and Lagace)

Smith

Schmidt/Miller/Theodore (tough to say who was the most important though the inclination I have is Schmidt. But all three played more or less just as strongly as the other and Vegas was basically able to ice a number two/number three defenseman at all times)

Neal/Perron/Haula (it is impossible to put one or the other because the strength of this line was that they worked well together. It can be argued that once Perron's play fell off the line stopped working but that to me, based on my observations, says less about Perron as a guy stirring the drink as it does that when one guy faltered, the whole thing failed. This was true when Haula or Neal would hit rough patches. If either of those guys had an off night, Perron looked pedestrian.)

Subban/Lagace (an argument could be made to put them higher than the second line because they kept the team alive when Fleury was injured and if they were terrible Vegas could've even missed the playoffs)

 

[Tkachuk27]

As it should. I fully expect a 1st rounder, 2nd rounder and Cody Eakin with Dorion saying 'well, the market just wasn't there!'.

Dont for the exchange of late round picks

 

[HanSolo]

Eklund is Kid Rock!

Sounds like Glass is a no go, the inverse to the notion to "the team that gets the best player wins the deal" for the Sens the best single asset they can get is probably the best salvage. Realistically the best piece they might have a shot at getting back is their 2019 1st.

It's not so much an inverse to the adage as it is that the adage lacks context. People act like rosters exist in some bubble and one superstar by his dominant contribution will make up for what was lost alone. Vegas themselves have already proven this isn't true. They have some great players but no elite tier guys. Teams like Pittsburgh are not a good example because they have multiple elite players. Chicago had Kane and Keith and a bunch of other very strong pieces. But then look at teams like Ottawa themselves. Karlsson isn't enough. McDavid isn't enough. Tavares isn't enough. Price isn't enough. Hell on Nashville, Forsberg, Subban, and Rinne isn't enough. Thornton, Pavelski, Burns, Marleau, and Couture wasn't enough. Seguin and Benn isn't enough. Bergeron and Rask hasn't been enough. Getzlaf and Perry hasn't been enough in 11 years (and back then it was Niedermayer, Pronger, Giguere, Selanne, McDonald, and an elite shutdown line that bought them a cup as well). The Sedins were never enough.

The point I'm trying to make is a lot of the teams I listed had good depth along with one or two elite players and it didn't do anything for them. This idea that one really good part is absolutely necessary and you pay whatever it takes to get them is long past outdated.

Vegas more than anybody would be crippling their active roster and pipeline in one fell swoop if Karlsson cost them both Glass and Tuch. At best. Presuming that trade happens and everything works out peachy with their remaining prospects they're looking at a roster for the long term of

Marchessault-Karlsson-Smith
Tatar-Suzuki-Gusev
???-Haula-Hyka
Pulkkinen-Bellemare-Carrier

Karlsson-Schmidt
Miller-McNabb
Brannstrom-Hague

Subban/Fleury

Instead of

Marchessault-Karlsson-Smith
Tatar-Glass-Tuch (FWIW I think Glass and Tuch would be perfect complements for each other based on their play style)
Suzuki-Haula-Gusev
Carrier-Bellemare-Hyka

Theodore-Schmidt
McNabb-Miller
Brannstrom-Hague

Fleury/Subban

Let's say for sake of argument Karlsson goes back to a 70 point year in Ottawa and Theodore pots 40 (not a stretch considering he played to a 32 point pace this year). I could stomach the loss of 30 points from the blue line if it meant I wasn't losing 30 points from the holes in our forward unit. Theodore may not be better than Karlsson but he's younger and Vegas should still be looking at building a long term core. Keeping Tuch and Glass (who IMO will at worst put up 30 points each respectively when they're settled into the league) allows Vegas to fill in holes in their roster without praying to the hockey gods that Gusev and Suzuki will be studs.

Karlsson alone may be worth his salt more than a handful of B-tier players but this is a truism only in isolation. The point is Vegas doesn't have many alternatives in the forward pipeline outside of Gusev and Suzuki. If they fail, then they trade for one guy good for 60-70 points, while the team as a whole lose two guys that could be good for 60 points when fully developed. Even if it's the lower end production that's just not worth it to me when Theodore will provide offense just fine.

When it comes down to it the trio of Miller, Theo, and Schmidt will serve the ofd purpose together just fine and we have Brannstrom and Hague waiting in the wings. Karlsson would be a great addition and adds more for sure. But if anything we need help up front with Neal and Perron out the door. Vegas is in a situation not too unlike Anaheim's having a good wealth of young defensive talent. But recently Anaheim has shored up the forward prospect core with guys like Troy Terry, Sam Steel, etc. Assuming this trade happens they have two options with any sort of chance and would have no picks in the first two rounds to offset losing Tuch and Glass.

I could stomach losing Suzuki, Theodore, and maybe even Brannstrom with them if it means getting Karlsson. But losing Tuch and Glass means losing too much on offense and I really hope McPhee doesn't get blinded by superstar lust to do something so stupid.

 

[Hasbro]

It's not so much an inverse to the adage as it is that the adage lacks context.

And it's a fallacy that anyone denying the Duchene trade is a disaster has clung to.

 

[Liver King]

Tuch
Theodore
Suzuki
1st

 

[Liver King]

And it's a fallacy that anyone denying the Duchene trade is a disaster has clung to.

Depends on the 2019 1st for me...which isnt looking good haha easily take Duchene over the rest

 

[karnige]

Vegas just comes into the league and they try and take all the best players we have like I'm happy they had a great season and really shocked me but c'mon now they want Tavares,Karlsson like who else do you want...to me Vegas is just a show and all talk they got cocky and the capitals whooped their asses so no no no

right those best players that 99% of the fans laughed at the knights for selecting. right....

 

[SpezDispenser]

Dont for the exchange of late round picks

Ha, yeah. Where we give the higher late rounder.

 

[Devilsrock17]

right those best players that 99% of the fans laughed at the knights for selecting. right....

You know this is an old post right?

 

[Duncstar]

I'm seriously starting to doubt Vegas. It'll be nice once Tavares goes back to NYI and everyones like whose that other guy? You know, the generational talent.

 

[Vegan Knight]

I'm seriously starting to doubt Vegas. It'll be nice once Tavares goes back to NYI and everyones like whose that other guy? You know, the generational talent.

There would be far less interest in Tavares if teams had to trade a king's ransom for him.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

I just wish something would happen one way or another .. Is Karlsson staying .. ( I think probably not) ... Wait till July 1 is likely just to get to a place to allow other teams to talk to him. Vegas so far is the most likely destination

 

[Duncstar]

I just wish something would happen one way or another .. Is Karlsson staying .. ( I think probably not) ... Wait till July 1 is likely just to get to a place to allow other teams to talk to him. Vegas so far is the most likely destination

Its so we can trade him for ROR ++ I KNEW IT

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Its so we can trade him for ROR ++ I KNEW IT

I'd like O'Reilly as a c piece coming back.. A 21019 1st is a must in the +

 

[Sureves]

As it should. I fully expect a 1st rounder, 2nd rounder and Cody Eakin with Dorion saying 'well, the market just wasn't there!'.

Add Ryan going the other way and a prospect we have never heard of going to the Sens and this is frighteningly accurate/possible.

 

[Duncstar]

I'd like O'Reilly as a c piece coming back.. A 21019 1st is a must in the +

ROR + SJS 1st + Buff 1st.