Prospect Info: Vasili Podkolzin, Pt. III

[hookshott]

When the World Jr. Hockey Championships are over in January, Podkolzin's contract will have only about three and half months to run. I doubt any benching or demotions from here on in the KHL will have much impact on his development.

And if the World Championships are cancelled this season which seems likely, Podkolzin's official ties with the KHL will come to an end on April 30th. At that point if he signs an ELC with the Canucks, he might actually be able to help them down the stretch. It's all good.

Let's not waste an ELC on him for a few games in, what is very likely, to be a down season. Better to have 3 full seasons, like Petterson, on a reasonable contract, as opposed to 2 and a bit, like Hughes and Boeser. Salary cap, as we are finally finding out, actually is important! They need to keep this in mind.

 

[4Twenty]

Not cherry picking at all, just acknowledging that of the 12 games over 11:48, 5 are massively inflated due to most of SKA's top 9 being out with Covid, and Podkolzin being forced into a top 6 role. If the team hadn't suffered from Covid, would Podkolzin have received that kind of ice time?

As for Marchenko....Through the 1st 8 games this season, he and Podkolzin both had 1G + 1A. Both started the 1st 4 game with similar deployment, but after scoring 2 pts in his 1st 4 games (averaging ~11:47TOI) Podkolzin saw 9:11, 8:21, 6:40, and 8:37TOI over the next 4 games for an average of 8:12TOI. Marchenko on the other hand didn't record a point in his 1st 6 games (averaging 11:26TOI), and then coming off a minus 3 performance in game 6 got promoted to the top 6 with PP time. Kirill would scored 1G 1A in game 7/8 of the season (playing 14:47, and 16:25).

Then Covid hit, and Marchenko was one of the players who would miss ~2 weeks (he missed 8 games total). Podkolzin would be forced into the top 6 (True top 6 role with PP + PK) for the next 5 games, and would be played on the top line for 3 games after that with no special team mins. As soon as Marchenko returned, Pokolzin was sent back to the 4th line playing 10:47, 8:37, 3:52, and 12:55 (from today), while only playing 4 out of the next 8 KHL games.

Marchenko was gifted top 6 mins with PP time, and took advantage, while Podkolzin was forced into that role without veteran support (He played well, but 17+ mins is too much for him at the KHL level), and when the vets returned he dropped to the 4th line again. Podkolzin hasn't played top 6 mins with PP time outside of the 5 Covid game when SKA had no choice. Look at the TOI for the top line today Marchenko 14:59TOI (3:46 time on attack), Vey 14:48 (3:47 TOA), and Podkolzin 12:55 (2:01 TOA), so you can see the difference was Marchenko and Vey saw PP time.

Why was it "gifted" for Marchenko. It feels like a lot of pro Canucks people are deciding the narrative with little actual connection to what's happening. Maybe Marchenko is sniping in practice and Vasiliy isn't?


I didn't expect Podkolzin to be a top 6 forward with special teams time this season, just as I wouldn't expect it next season in the NHL. On this team he's the 9th to 11th forward most games and that lines up with what he's producing. I'm ok with it.

I think seeing that Vey only played 14:48 is a pretty good sign that the minute spread in that team isn't big, so really only the pre Karajala games stand out. Even today, as I've already stated, he was 10th on the team for forwards in nearly 13 minutes. It's a deep team that tends looks like it rolls the lines if its even up hockey. That Podkolzin had close to 5 minutes in the first period today with all those penalties showed the coach is willing to play him. Hopefully those points today are a sign of things to come.

 

[4Twenty]

Let's not waste an ELC on him for a few games in, what is very likely, to be a down season. Better to have 3 full seasons, like Petterson, on a reasonable contract, as opposed to 2 and a bit, like Hughes and Boeser. Salary cap, as we are finally finding out, actually is important! They need to keep this in mind.

That ELC is good, but signing players in the 2nd half of their season and burning that year, gives the team an advantage in free agency with the 10.2C clause. It protects him from offersheet eligibility, which gives the team leverage on that 2nd contract, but it might be nice to fix that ELC contract into the next 3 years. I'm glad somebody brought that up.

I don't think he can join anyways, IIRC, Panarin couldn't play when he signed after his KHL season (Chicago won the cup without him anyways).

 

[ChilliBilly]

Let's not waste an ELC on him for a few games in, what is very likely, to be a down season. Better to have 3 full seasons, like Petterson, on a reasonable contract, as opposed to 2 and a bit, like Hughes and Boeser. Salary cap, as we are finally finding out, actually is important! They need to keep this in mind.

disagree. We have a few Russians in the system now, and we need to treat them right. Tryamkin got shitty treatment from a poor coach, and bolted. Last thing you want is to not give Podkolzin every chance to prove himself. You don't sign him the first chance you have, he might decide to KHL again.

Once again, we might have the steal of a draft. No one really knows. We have people thinking he's not putting up the stats he needs to. Others think he is the next "Messier". Who knows. But his being here might make both Tryamkin and Podkolzin happier.

 

[The Iron Goalie]

Why was it "gifted" for Marchenko. It feels like a lot of pro Canucks people are deciding the narrative with little actual connection to what's happening. Maybe Marchenko is sniping in practice and Vasiliy isn't?


I didn't expect Podkolzin to be a top 6 forward with special teams time this season, just as I wouldn't expect it next season in the NHL. On this team he's the 9th to 11th forward most games and that lines up with what he's producing. I'm ok with it.

I think seeing that Vey only played 14:48 is a pretty good sign that the minute spread in that team isn't big, so really only the pre Karajala games stand out. Even today, as I've already stated, he was 10th on the team for forwards in nearly 13 minutes. It's a deep team that tends looks like it rolls the lines if its even up hockey. That Podkolzin had close to 5 minutes in the first period today with all those penalties showed the coach is willing to play him. Hopefully those points today are a sign of things to come.

I didn't expect Podkolzin to be a top 6 forward for SKA either, but he did earn a 3rd line role last season + playoffs, with some special teams time. I expected he'd play a similar role this season, but when the teams been healthy he hasn't, so it's been frustrating to watch.

I wish I could share in your confidence over one game, but I'll wait and see if he'll play more consistent minutes going forward.

 

[Canucks LB]

This is absolutely lunacy

 

[nowhereman]

This is absolutely lunacy

Not if you ask the KHL apologists on the Prospects board. In their eyes, it's perfectly reasonable that a player skates for 5 minutes on the 4th line one day... is promoted to the first line the next.... demoted to a lower league the day after that and then brought back up to play on the first line again... before being scratched after that.

We're then told the KHL "works in mysterious ways..."

 

[Raistlin]

all those people care about is the NT, the politics of it all is ignored by them because it serves them well to "slowplay" their prospects, which hopefully leads to domestic development that is controlled by the state. there is no middle ground when talking with them, and I just couldn't bother anymore...... because we serve different masters basically. We are looking out for the interest of the club, them with the national team, what they dont understand is, a tenth pick will be coming to North America whether his growth gets artificially stunted or not. They are not interested in seeing through their delusions.

The solution to Pod is to send him to VHL if he's not 'good' enough to crack the deep SKA roster, or play him on the third line with more consistent minutes (~13mins) not have him walk on eggshells, yoyoed around like a beachball. If they cannot see that, then they are either so used to kowtowing to the state or just do not understand prospect development. In the meantime, Pod is indeed stuck in limbo, to a club that has no interest in developing him and cannot be bothered to serve his short term needs, which is to play asmuch as possible to prepare for training camp with us.

 

[4Twenty]

He’s 19 in a super competitive professional league.
At least he’s getting those opportunities.

Not sure why it’s hard to get that they don’t care about his development for the Canucks. They use him how they see it for themselves.

Would it be lovely if he was a productive top 6 player, sure? But he’s not. Going from scratch to 4th line to first line doesn’t seem all that unreasonable.

I see it no different than the carrot Travis Green dangles and the short leash certain players get.

I don’t know Russian and I certainly don’t look for interview transcripts of their coaches media updates. But I imagine having a team full of full fledged professionals is the reason Podkolzin as a teenager is the one who gets yo-yo’d.

I think this is part of development and I don’t think he’s being kept out for politics other than that he’s 19, and not one of the best forwards on the team at this stage.

How did Travis Green coach Jake Virtanen at 18/19/20 across the AHL and NHL?

 

[4Twenty]

The solution to Pod is to send him to VHL if he's not 'good' enough to crack the deep SKA roster, or play him on the third line with more consistent minutes (~13mins) not have him walk on eggshells, yoyoed around like a beachball. If they cannot see that, then they are either so used to kowtowing to the state or just do not understand prospect development. In the meantime, Pod is indeed stuck in limbo, to a club that has no interest in developing him and cannot be bothered to serve his short term needs, which is to play asmuch as possible to prepare for training camp with us.

Why do you think it serves him better to play worse competition?

He’s averaging 12 minutes a game in a top league on a top team with a fantastic skill development system and coaching.

Do you think Pod would rather play in the NHL of Europe or the ECHL of Russia?

This idea he’s walking around on egg shells? Is it backed up by anything or just because he doesn’t play. It seems a kid who just played back to back on a line with their leading scorer isn’t really walking on egg shells.

He averages 12 minutes a game in the KHL.

 

[Raistlin]

He’s 19 in a super competitive professional league.
At least he’s getting those opportunities.

Not sure why it’s hard to get that they don’t care about his development for the Canucks. They use him how they see it for themselves.

Would it be lovely if he was a productive top 6 player, sure? But he’s not. Going from scratch to 4th line to first line doesn’t seem all that unreasonable.

I see it no different than the carrot Travis Green dangles and the short leash certain players get.

I don’t know Russian and I certainly don’t look for interview transcripts of their coaches media updates. But I imagine having a team full of full fledged professionals is the reason Podkolzin as a teenager is the one who gets yo-yo’d.

I think this is part of development and I don’t think he’s being kept out for politics other than that he’s 19, and not one of the best forwards on the team at this stage.

How did Travis Green coach Jake Virtanen at 18/19/20 across the AHL and NHL?

So you realize that his current situation is detrimental to his development? We can all see why SKA is treating him the way they are, as you say, they couldn't care less about a player that is leaving next year. THAT is the politics though, his deployment will be different if they have to roster him in 2022. Green is not a good comparison, as Virtanen is a known commodity by the time he took over, Willie gave Virtanen plenty of chances in his rookie year, primarily with Sven and Bo on the second line oscilliating with Vrbata.

 

[Raistlin]

Why do you think it serves him better to play worse competition?

He’s averaging 12 minutes a game in a top league on a top team with a fantastic skill development system and coaching.

Do you think Pod would rather play in the NHL of Europe or the ECHL of Russia?

This idea he’s walking around on egg shells? Is it backed up by anything or just because he doesn’t play. It seems a kid who just played back to back on a line with their leading scorer isn’t really walking on egg shells.

He averages 12 minutes a game in the KHL.

we went through this. his 12 minutes is if you discount his scratches and if you count the highly unusual 5-6 games when their roster became more like a VHL roster and they are forced to play him 17+ minutes during COVID. VHL is not ECHL, its more like AHL, you're thinking MHL. Other coaches pointed out VP is walking on eggshells not me. let me find you the quote when i'm off work.... off the top of my head, I believe its from a rival KHL exec.

 

[4Twenty]

So you realize that his current situation is detrimental to his development? We can all see why SKA is treating him the way they are, as you say, they couldn't care less about a player that is leaving next year. THAT is the politics though, his deployment will be different if they have to roster him in 2022. Green is not a good comparison, as Virtanen is a known commodity by the time he took over, Willie gave Virtanen plenty of chances in his rookie year, primarily with Sven and Bo on the second line oscilliating with Vrbata.

How do you infer that from what you bolded?

He doesn’t play every game? That doesn’t mean it’s detrimental to his development.

Travis Green didn’t give Jake any first line opportunity in the AHL. He wasn’t “known”.

Travis gave Virtanen the 19th highest average ice time for a forward on Jake’s 21 yr old season in the NHL. Sometimes with the Twins. Sometimes with Gaunce.

Yo-yo deployment. Under Podkolzin’s KHL average at barely 19.

 

[Raistlin]

How do you infer that from what you bolded?

He doesn’t play every game? That doesn’t mean it’s detrimental to his development.

Travis Green didn’t give Jake any first line opportunity in the AHL. He wasn’t “known”.

Travis gave Virtanen the 19th highest average ice time for a forward on Jake’s 21 yr old season in the NHL. Sometimes with the Twins. Sometimes with Gaunce.

Yo-yo deployment. Under Podkolzin’s KHL average at barely 19.

I am not familiar with how Green deployed Virtanen in the A. but why are you using Virtanen as a comp? Virtanen was known as a bust all these years. Virtanen has a work ethic problem also that doesn't seem to be affecting VP. If anything, all these proves is that we do not want to follow the way we developed JV right? Lets get it right this time.

 

[4Twenty]

we went through this. his 12 minutes is if you discount his scratches and if you count the highly unusual 5-6 games when their roster became more like a VHL roster and they are forced to play him 17+ minutes during COVID. VHL is not ECHL, its more like AHL, you're thinking MHL. Other coaches pointed out VP is walking on eggshells not me. let me find you the quote when i'm off work.... off the top of my head, I believe its from a rival KHL exec.

They didn’t have to play him those minutes in the non covid games. They did.

They didn’t have to play him with 1C Linden Vey (I laugh every time I type this) the past two either. They did. I’m not discounting ice time. He got it. In the khl against khl era.

VHL is a bad league its bad hockey. It’s lower than AHL level. AHL stars are khl stars.

I think playing with and against men in the best possible league makes him a better asset to the Canucks than someone who wouldn’t have to work as hard playing lower level competition.

I think Podkolzin likely agrees.

 

[Raistlin]

They didn’t have to play him those minutes in the non covid games. They did.

They didn’t have to play him with 1C Linden Vey (I laugh every time I type this) the past two either. They did. I’m not discounting ice time. He got it. In the khl against khl era.

VHL is a bad league its bad hockey. It’s lower than AHL level. AHL stars are khl stars.

I think playing with and against men in the best possible league makes him a better asset to the Canucks than someone who wouldn’t have to work as hard playing lower level competition.

I think Podkolzin likely agrees.

sure. but hes not even playing.

 

[4Twenty]

sure. but hes not even playing.

Today. Played the last two with their points leader.

He’s played 20 of 25 games and averages more than 12 minutes in those games.

Sadly he’s not one of the 9 best forwards at current ability on the roster.

We don’t actually know specifics on the scratches just a bunch of Canucks scribes generalizing from 8000km away.

 

[ChilliBilly]

all those people care about is the NT, the politics of it all is ignored by them because it serves them well to "slowplay" their prospects, which hopefully leads to domestic development that is controlled by the state. there is no middle ground when talking with them, and I just couldn't bother anymore...... because we serve different masters basically. We are looking out for the interest of the club, them with the national team, what they dont understand is, a tenth pick will be coming to North America whether his growth gets artificially stunted or not. They are not interested in seeing through their delusions.

The solution to Pod is to send him to VHL if he's not 'good' enough to crack the deep SKA roster, or play him on the third line with more consistent minutes (~13mins) not have him walk on eggshells, yoyoed around like a beachball. If they cannot see that, then they are either so used to kowtowing to the state or just do not understand prospect development. In the meantime, Pod is indeed stuck in limbo, to a club that has no interest in developing him and cannot be bothered to serve his short term needs, which is to play asmuch as possible to prepare for training camp with us.

He won't be coming to training camp. He'll be here at the end of his season, which will likely be the end of April.

 

[Catamarca Livin]

Players can develop without playing many games. One only needs to look at college hockey to see this. Still it is strange to see this passionate defense of SKA coach and management when the same poster is the exact opposite way with Canuck management.

 

[Catamarca Livin]

Today. Played the last two with their points leader.

He’s played 20 of 25 games and averages more than 12 minutes in those games.

Sadly he’s not one of the 9 best forwards at current ability on the roster.

We don’t actually know specifics on the scratches just a bunch of Canucks scribes generalizing from 8000km away.

How do you know he is not one of their best 9 forwards? Are you closer than 8000km away?

 

[4Twenty]

Players can develop without playing many games. One only needs to look at college hockey to see this. Still it is strange to see this passionate defense of SKA coach and management when the same poster is the exact opposite way with Canuck management.

Canucks mgmt have earned my critiques through 6 years of action.

This is just how it is in Russia.

About the 8000km for me? I think it’s fair to side with a coach of a men’s team in the best league outside the nhl. I see that his job is to win, this kid plays 80% of their games and plays 12 minutes on average.

That’s all I have to go by and SKA is a good team that’s giving him a variety of roles from first line to 4th.

I think they have seasoned pro’s to play the power play ahead of him and it’s not surprising he doesn’t get those chances. I wouldn’t expect him to in the nhl yet either.

SKA have developed him similarly to this point and it’s why he was a top draft pick and the leader for team Russia at the u20 wjc.

They must be doing something right.

I think this is good for the player to be honest and I think playing in that crappy lower league does nothing for him but introduce bad habits.

 

[Johnny Canucker]

Not sure how people think that a kid that can’t crack the KHL is ready to play a top 6 role in the NHL THIS year.

 

[vanuck]

If SKA know he's going to leave at the end of the season anyway, is there really an incentive for them to keep playing mind games with him? I get that politics can be a thing sometimes in Russia but it's pretty clear he wants to make the jump to the NHL... so why wouldn't they just utilize him however they saw fit under normal circumstances? To me it seems his ice time is merely a reflection of the fact that he isn't one of their best top 9 players just yet.

If you were going to play mind games to try and get someone to stay, shouldn't you be enticing them with more ice time instead of less?

 

[lawrence]

If SKA know he's going to leave at the end of the season anyway, is there really an incentive for them to keep playing mind games with him? I get that politics can be a thing sometimes in Russia but it's pretty clear he wants to make the jump to the NHL... so why wouldn't they just utilize him however they saw fit under normal circumstances? To me it seems his ice time is merely a reflection of the fact that he isn't one of their best top 9 players just yet.

If you were going to play mind games to try and get someone to stay, shouldn't you be enticing them with more ice time instead of less?

this is what some of us have been saying in that joke of a thread on the main forum, that if he's not going to play then send him down to their farm team so he can get some playing time. But nope, apparently this is the best way they do shit in Russia so who are we to say anything since we don't follow the KHL.

 

[4Twenty]

The two players who came into the lineup yesterday in Podkolzin's place, one is the leading goal scorer of the team (scored 2 yesterday) and the other is a 24 year old NHL player. It was an ugly game, I watched it all last night (lots of Canucks Flavour though: Granlund, Larsen vs Vey).

It would be rare for a 19 year old, non superstar, not to be limited when bringing in these two.

SKA has used 32 forwards this season. Vasili Podkolzin has played in more games than all but 4 of them. People need to chill. I'd rather him against better competition and to challenge him to work to actually maintain a spot in the lineup. The VHL is bad. Russian junior is bad.