Speculation: Vasili Podkolzin NHL arrival? (read OP)

when will Vasili Podkolzin be NHL ready?


  • Total voters
    165

Diversification

Registered User
Jun 21, 2019
2,954
3,657
First of all, is it proven that he is healthy scratched or was he injured?
Second of all, he is in a situation where everyone is planning to annoint him the captain of the national team this December. Are you aware that his situation is very political? Bragin has every reason not to play him so he can stay in Russia longer, even if he doesnt want to do it, there are outside agents that want him to develop in Russia. listen to what Datsyuk said when he left Russia the first time.
Third of all, he was playing with a skeleton crew of teammates, SKA broke a record of icing the youngest lineup in the history of KHL and the youngest player ever. He was playing with a V or MHL quality lineup when he was given ample ice, at other times he was not breaking 13 minutes.. Not to mention some of his teammates could be playing while infected. or him? who knows? There is plenty of arguments to be made.

Sure, I pumped my brakes a bit, if you look at stats, yes he is not producing, he is not patient with the puck, and he doesnt have a prime spot that he fights for in front of the net, he's like a wild bull. But those are just immaturity the offensive side of things, he is very very mature on the defensive end, and effort level, you cannot teach his tenacity. When I say he can play in the NHL, I dont mean he has to play with EP or Miller. He can play anywhere, and his effort alone will pay dividends to the outcome of the game, I am that confident of his transition. I used to think he can score 70 pts in his prime matched with EP, believe that he still has 50+ upside while he will actually win games for you. Like Morrow, he doesn't need to break 50 to make an impact, effort level like that also rubs off on players like JV, if your linemate is busting his ass, I cannot see him coasting in a market like Vancouver.

Pretty much the way I see it as well. His draft pedigree, our mess of a cap and the fact he has options all conspire to land him a slot on the team. But what will keep him there is his tenacity and defensive game. The offense will likely come slowly for this player, but I suspect his underlying stats will look good pretty much from the start.
 

Nucker101

Foundational Poster
Apr 2, 2013
20,579
15,832
wow...... not even close........ bro.... playing style is not even the same.
Not saying style, talking about caliber/impact

Like when Ferraro said Virtanen would be like Hansen and the fanbase freaked out
 

Andy Dufresne

Registered User
Jun 17, 2009
2,617
696
A simpler question for George, the Russian hockey insider. Has there ever been, since the creation of the KHL, an u20 player who only played with his KHL team (no mhl or vhl) that didn't play on the Russian wjc team ????
 

FroshaugFan2

Registered User
Dec 7, 2006
7,133
1,173
A simpler question for George, the Russian hockey insider. Has there ever been, since the creation of the KHL, an u20 player who only played with his KHL team (no mhl or vhl) that didn't play on the Russian wjc team ????
Gordeyev last year.
 

Hansen

tyler motte simp
Oct 12, 2011
23,710
9,327
Nanaimo, B.C.
Frankly I think that Canucks media and twitter is doing more harm than good to Podkolzin now, this media hype about him not getting chances is not going to do anything but gutter him with his team in Russia, and people seem to think that he (and Hoglander too to an extent) are NHL ready and could walk onto our roster right now, which should not be seen to be the case. Lots of posts here even like "just wait until Pod and Hog are here" as if they would have made a difference for us in the playoffs. Like sure they are good prospects but they aren't sure things in any way, nor do their (admittedly tantalizing) toolsets indicate that they have the talent to use them and be top producers in the NHL.

Gotta pump the brakes instead of the tires
 

F A N

Registered User
Aug 12, 2005
18,630
5,893
Frankly I think that Canucks media and twitter is doing more harm than good to Podkolzin now, this media hype about him not getting chances is not going to do anything but gutter him with his team in Russia, and people seem to think that he (and Hoglander too to an extent) are NHL ready and could walk onto our roster right now, which should not be seen to be the case. Lots of posts here even like "just wait until Pod and Hog are here" as if they would have made a difference for us in the playoffs. Like sure they are good prospects but they aren't sure things in any way, nor do their (admittedly tantalizing) toolsets indicate that they have the talent to use them and be top producers in the NHL.

Gotta pump the brakes instead of the tires

I doubt Pods' teammates and coaches etc. care. Russians typically think that North America doesn't understand how things work in Russia in the first place. It's Pods attitude that counts. Plus if there are any issues, Vey would set them straight. If anyone knows how the Vancouver and Canadian media works, it's Vey.
 

MS

1%er
Mar 18, 2002
53,367
83,458
Vancouver, BC
It's not a vastly inferior league despite how many times you say it, plenty of people who actually watch him say he's been playing well and should be promoted, but OK, case closed.

You used to be a must read poster who clearly watched a TON of hockey but c'mon. It's as if a dislike for Benning has translated into a hate for all things Canucks and at the same time you just started reading stats lines.

The KHL is absolutely a vastly inferior league to the NHL. It's not even close. It's a league where Linden Vey and Philip Larsen are superstars.

I was extremely complimentary of Podkolzin's play to close out last season. This season, he has not started well and when I watched him his performance was disappointing and lined up with the numbers. This has nothing to do with Benning, whatsoever.

First of all, is it proven that he is healthy scratched or was he injured?
Second of all, he is in a situation where everyone is planning to annoint him the captain of the national team this December. Are you aware that his situation is very political? Bragin has every reason not to play him so he can stay in Russia longer, even if he doesnt want to do it, there are outside agents that want him to develop in Russia. listen to what Datsyuk said when he left Russia the first time.... or a more recent example, look at Romanov after he signaled he wants to come over the pond.
Third of all, he was playing with a skeleton crew of teammates, SKA broke a record of icing the youngest lineup in the history of KHL and the youngest player ever. He was playing with a V or MHL quality lineup when he was given ample ice, at other times he was not breaking 13 minutes.. Not to mention some of his teammates could be playing while infected. or him? who knows? There is plenty of arguments to be made.

Sure, I pumped my brakes a bit, if you look at stats, yes he is not producing, he is not patient with the puck, and he doesnt have a prime spot that he fights for in front of the net, he's like a wild bull. But those are just immaturity the offensive side of things, he is very very mature on the defensive end, and effort level, you cannot teach his tenacity. When I say he can play in the NHL, I dont mean he has to play with EP or Miller. He can play anywhere, and his effort alone will pay dividends to the outcome of the game, I am that confident of his transition. I used to think he can score 70 pts in his prime matched with EP, believe that he still has 50+ upside while he will actually win games for you. Like Morrow, he doesn't need to break 50 to make an impact, effort level like that also rubs off on players like JV, if your linemate is busting his ass, I cannot see him coasting in a market like Vancouver.

Podkolzin had played every game until the last game and averaged 13 minutes/game. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that and it's ample opportunity to make an impact. If he was a regular healthy scratch playing 6 minutes/game, you might have an argument. But that isn't the case. He's played regularly, hasn't produced at all, and has now been scratched.

I'm not debating his upside right now. The only thing I'm debating are the claims that he could play in the NHL right now. Based on his performance in a vastly inferior league, he clearly cannot, and it isn't even really debatable.
 

F A N

Registered User
Aug 12, 2005
18,630
5,893
The KHL is absolutely a vastly inferior league to the NHL. It's not even close. It's a league where Linden Vey and Philip Larsen are superstars.

There are certain players who can't translate their games to the NHL that have no problems in the KHL. Smallish skilled players who are all stars at the AHL level tend to translate their games pretty well to the KHL level as well. Markus Granlund is another superstar level player at the KHL level.
 
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Ernie

Registered User
Aug 3, 2004
12,759
2,157
The KHL is absolutely a vastly inferior league to the NHL. It's not even close. It's a league where Linden Vey and Philip Larsen are superstars.

Sure, there are plenty of players that do better in the KHL than the NHL. Linden Vey was a good player at lower levels who performs well with the larger ice and reduce physicality of the KHL. That isn't a problem for Podkolzin though - in fact, you'd expect the reverse to be true given his style of play.

But the "vastly inferior" line you keep throwing around is ridiculous. It really exposes your biases and totally undercuts all your arguments here. Plenty of work has been done with comparisons and statistically a KHL point is roughly equal to 0.8 NHL points, as I pointed out in a previous post.

Jagr didn't suddenly light up the KHL when he went back - his numbers in the NHL and KHL for that period were pretty close. Same with Datsyuk. And numerous other examples. In fact for almost all the NHL stars that went back to play during the 2012/2013 lockout, their stat lines were barely above or roughly equal to what they produced in the NHL during the same time period. If they had played in the AHL instead they would have been absolutely killing it.

I was extremely complimentary of Podkolzin's play to close out last season. This season, he has not started well and when I watched him his performance was disappointing and lined up with the numbers. This has nothing to do with Benning, whatsoever.

Funny that you go from quoting stat lines to now claiming that you've watched him play. How many games? How do you watch those games?

It's a little odd that your assessment is so out of sync with the people who actually watch every second of his ice time, don't you think?
 

Raistlin

Registered User
Aug 25, 2006
4,523
3,299
The KHL is absolutely a vastly inferior league to the NHL. It's not even close. It's a league where Linden Vey and Philip Larsen are superstars.

I was extremely complimentary of Podkolzin's play to close out last season. This season, he has not started well and when I watched him his performance was disappointing and lined up with the numbers. This has nothing to do with Benning, whatsoever.



Podkolzin had played every game until the last game and averaged 13 minutes/game. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that and it's ample opportunity to make an impact. If he was a regular healthy scratch playing 6 minutes/game, you might have an argument. But that isn't the case. He's played regularly, hasn't produced at all, and has now been scratched.

I'm not debating his upside right now. The only thing I'm debating are the claims that he could play in the NHL right now. Based on his performance in a vastly inferior league, he clearly cannot, and it isn't even really debatable.

Other than a stretch of 5 games where one third of the team and most importantly the coach went down with COVID, Podkolzin was averaging 10:16 of time time a game. there is absolutely everything wrong with that. Once the coach came back, he is scratched. Stop being so dismissive of a league you don't know much about.
 
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iceburg

Don't ask why
Aug 31, 2003
7,603
3,959
Yeah, its not great.

Atleast he is getting quality training outside of game time. I honestly think he is still better off than in Utica.

It's interesting that one of the reasons he fell to 9 was that he would not be over to North America for 2 years. Now that we're staring at the poetnial of no AHL or at least a shortened season, the 2 years in Russia turns out to be more beneficial than coming over to North America. With the most optimistic estimates, some key prospects will not have played a game in close to a year.
 

MS

1%er
Mar 18, 2002
53,367
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Vancouver, BC
Sure, there are plenty of players that do better in the KHL than the NHL. Linden Vey was a good player at lower levels who performs well with the larger ice and reduce physicality of the KHL. That isn't a problem for Podkolzin though - in fact, you'd expect the reverse to be true given his style of play.

But the "vastly inferior" line you keep throwing around is ridiculous. It really exposes your biases and totally undercuts all your arguments here. Plenty of work has been done with comparisons and statistically a KHL point is roughly equal to 0.8 NHL points, as I pointed out in a previous post.

Jagr didn't suddenly light up the KHL when he went back - his numbers in the NHL and KHL for that period were pretty close. Same with Datsyuk. And numerous other examples. In fact for almost all the NHL stars that went back to play during the 2012/2013 lockout, their stat lines were barely above or roughly equal to what they produced in the NHL during the same time period. If they had played in the AHL instead they would have been absolutely killing it.



Funny that you go from quoting stat lines to now claiming that you've watched him play. How many games? How do you watch those games?

It's a little odd that your assessment is so out of sync with the people who actually watch every second of his ice time, don't you think?

Of course the KHL is vastly inferior to the NHL. And yes, it's not even close. I can't believe I'm having this argument.

If the NHL is a 10 and the AHL is a 0, the KHL is about a 2. Maybe a 3.

I watched the SKA - Dynamo game from last week, which I've mentioned multiple times now. He played 12 minutes, was mostly invisible, and his skating looked laboured relative to this level of play.

Also those NHL equivalency things are garbage. And cherry picking examples is pointless. Vitali Kravtsov was considered a better prospect than Podkolzin and came over last year and couldn't compete in the AHL.

Other than a stretch of 5 games where one third of the team and most importantly the coach went down with COVID, Podkolzin was averaging 10:16 of time time a game. there is absolutely everything wrong with that. Once the coach came back, he is scratched. Stop being so dismissive of a league you don't know much about.

He's played about 1/3 of his minutes in top-6 icetime, 1/3 in 3rd line icetime, and 1/3 in 4th line icetime. He hasn't produced anywhere.

Also, the notion that making the player unhappy by not giving him minutes will somehow ... cause him to want to stay there longer? Is strange, to say the least.

Again, this is not rocket science. If a player is not performing well in a league substantially below NHL level, he is not 'ready to play' in the NHL.
 

Ernie

Registered User
Aug 3, 2004
12,759
2,157
Of course the KHL is vastly inferior to the NHL. And yes, it's not even close. I can't believe I'm having this argument.

You are having this argument because you are factually wrong about that and are just digging in. Unless you can bring some evidence to support it (besides Linden Vey is good there duhhh) then you should stop because it's making it apparent that you are no better of a poster then the Benning fanboys. And I don't say that lightly.

I mean you are just being ridiculous saying things that he won't make the World Junior team when he's been on the roster the last two year, including wearing the "A" last year. He's more likely to be the captain than not be on the team, and if that were to happen (which would be virtually unprecedented) then it tells you a lot about how the Russian hockey establishment is strong arming a player who refuses to sign a new KHL contract.

I watched the SKA - Dynamo game from last week, which I've mentioned multiple times now. He played 12 minutes, was mostly invisible, and his skating looked laboured relative to this level of play.

So you watched the one game where Podkolzin didn't do very well and now you're basing an entire judgement on this?

For all we know he could have covid (which wouldn't be surprising given how things have gone for his team) and that's why he's been scratched.

BTW he has 58.6% Corsi on the season so far.
 
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Nucker101

Foundational Poster
Apr 2, 2013
20,579
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Of course the KHL is vastly inferior to the NHL. And yes, it's not even close. I can't believe I'm having this argument.

If the NHL is a 10 and the AHL is a 0, the KHL is about a 2. Maybe a 3.

I watched the SKA - Dynamo game from last week, which I've mentioned multiple times now. He played 12 minutes, was mostly invisible, and his skating looked laboured relative to this level of play.

Also those NHL equivalency things are garbage. And cherry picking examples is pointless. Vitali Kravtsov was considered a better prospect than Podkolzin and came over last year and couldn't compete in the AHL.



He's played about 1/3 of his minutes in top-6 icetime, 1/3 in 3rd line icetime, and 1/3 in 4th line icetime. He hasn't produced anywhere.

Also, the notion that making the player unhappy by not giving him minutes will somehow ... cause him to want to stay there longer? Is strange, to say the least.

Again, this is not rocket science. If a player is not performing well in a league substantially below NHL level, he is not 'ready to play' in the NHL.
Those KHL equivalency numbers get skewed. KHL’ers who flake out in the NHL usually don’t stick around to become 4th liners or call-up options. Meanwhile guys like Panarin, Kuznetsov and Tarasenko will obviously enjoy long successful NHL career as they pile up points.
 
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BORAT53

Registered User
Oct 22, 2020
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31
Coquitlam
It'd be good to bring him after Pettersson signs his extension so the Canucks don't worry about giving him the big money for a while.
 

MS

1%er
Mar 18, 2002
53,367
83,458
Vancouver, BC
You are having this argument because you are factually wrong about that and are just digging in. Unless you can bring some evidence to support it (besides Linden Vey is good there duhhh) then you should stop because it's making it apparent that you are no better of a poster then the Benning fanboys. And I don't say that lightly.

Any argument that the KHL is remotely comparable to the NHL is completely absurd. Period. End of story. It's an absolutely ludicrous thing to claim.

And yes, those equivalency scores are complete garbage.

I mean you are just being ridiculous saying things that he won't make the World Junior team when he's been on the roster the last two year, including wearing the "A" last year. He's more likely to be the captain than not be on the team, and if that were to happen (which would be virtually unprecedented) then it tells you a lot about how the Russian hockey establishment is strong arming a player who refuses to sign a new KHL contract.

What the hell are you talking about? I never said any of that!

He's clearly going to be one of the top guys on their WJC team.

So you watched the one game where Podkolzin didn't do very well and now you're basing an entire judgement on this?

For all we know he could have covid (which wouldn't be surprising given how things have gone for his team) and that's why he's been scratched.

BTW he has 58.6% Corsi on the season so far.

I said Moscow Dynamo, not CSKA.

Raw corsi numbers are garbage. Guy plays sheltered minutes on an elite team. Every player in that situation has great raw corsi.
 

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