VAR Thread

[Halladay]

Couldnt find another thread on this topic, but I think this deserves it own thread. Some very questionable calls especially in the Premiere League recently. I havent watched much of the other leagues this year but Im assuming they are implementing it better? Feel free to post any questionable VAR calls around the world in this thread.

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[YNWA14]

As far as most of the sentiment goes it seems like most leagues are implementing VAR in a pretty reasonable way. It's still new and will have kinks to work out, but for the most part (PL aside) it seems to be going really well.

The PL on the other hand seems to be getting worse rather than better. Not sure why they feel the need to stand out in this regard.

 

[Blender]

I generally support the use of VAR, the implementation of it in the PL has been nothing short of a disaster.

 

[Savant]

All I want is consistency. We aren’t getting consistency.

 

[Halladay]

Pretty useless. I also dont like how they wait so long to call offsides. Not VAR specifically related but it annoys me.

 

[Savant]

 

[Halladay]

I see the problem is, that when a ref screws up constantly, there is no repercussions. They dont seem to be demoted. As long this continues, nothing will change. I agree with this tweet though.

 

[IU Hawks fan]

This post just made me think of this, but is there a single minority ref in the league?

Outside of Oliver (younger white guy) they're all old white guys. They have the same problem as baseball, these guys who are too old and stupid get to keep their jobs forever with no chance to lose it on merit.

The profession in England needs to get younger and, ideally, more diverse.

 

[Savant]

This post just made me think of this, but is there a single minority ref in the league?

Outside of Oliver (younger white guy) they're all old white guys. They have the same problem as baseball, these guys who are too old and stupid get to keep their jobs forever with no chance to lose it on merit.

The profession in England needs to get younger and, ideally, more diverse.

The best lines person in the league is a woman.

the refs are all white men disproportionately from the Manchester area.

 

[S E P H]

 

[Havre]

Brilliant example of how humans in general underestimate the complexity of complex systems. We see 3 horrible decisions being made in a World Cup and we think VAR can just clean up those mistakes and keep everything else as is.

It might not be completely rational, then again watching 22 men (most of the time) running around after a ball is hardly rational either, but I just enjoy games more now without VAR. And it is hardly because VAR has punished Spurs much. The Dier handball one could argue, but that was more the rules than VAR. I'm sure there have been some, but I can't think of a single big decision "going against" Spurs due to VAR messing up. Lost some "goals" to offside, but they have all seemingly been correct (even if I seriously question how they determine when the pass is actually hit at times).

And I am not against technology. I believe in the future games will be 100% refed by computers (or very close to it). I don't see why we wouldn't have sensors and cameras picking up everything on a pitch at some point in the future. I don't know the technology, but I could imagine for offsides we aren't that far off having some sort of "goal line technology" solution. I would be all for that. For fouls it is a lot more complex though.

 

[Alklha]

They never fail to disappoint, the ramblings of idiots.

The Luiz decision was 100% correct and nothing to do with VAR. The rules are clear that if a defending player prevents a clear goalscoring opportunity and makes no attempt to play the ball then it is a penalty and a red card. The onus is entirely on Luiz to avoid contact when he runs behind the attacker, there is no space in the rules to allow for "accidents". He prevented a goalscoring opportunity and he made no attempt to play the ball, it's a red card and the referee has no choice in the matter.

So the issue is the rule. Do we want clear cut rules, as it is now, where it's just determining contact and we should see uniformity with the punishment? Or do we want them written more subjectively, and sacrifice uniformity of decisions so referees can use leniency in situations like Luiz?

Where VAR failed yesterday was in the Manchester United game, and that was entirely about an incompetent referee who is determined to make everything about him.

 

[The Abusement Park]

They never fail to disappoint, the ramblings of idiots.

The Luiz decision was 100% correct and nothing to do with VAR. The rules are clear that if a defending player prevents a clear goalscoring opportunity and makes no attempt to play the ball then it is a penalty and a red card. The onus is entirely on Luiz to avoid contact when he runs behind the attacker, there is no space in the rules to allow for "accidents". He prevented a goalscoring opportunity and he made no attempt to play the ball, it's a red card and the referee has no choice in the matter.

So the issue is the rule. Do we want clear cut rules, as it is now, where it's just determining contact and we should see uniformity with the punishment? Or do we want them written more subjectively, and sacrifice uniformity of decisions so referees can use leniency in situations like Luiz?

Where VAR failed yesterday was in the Manchester United game, and that was entirely about an incompetent referee who is determined to make everything about him.

For the Martial penalty? How it was the exact same scenario as the Luiz red car?

 

[Alklha]

For the Martial penalty? How it was the exact same scenario as the Luiz red car?

There is a camera angle that shows Martial was diving at the time of the initial contact with the defender, so it couldn't possibly be considered a goalscoring opportunity.

 

[The Abusement Park]

There is a camera angle that shows Martial was diving at the time of the initial contact with the defender, so it couldn't possibly be considered a goalscoring opportunity.

The Wolves player also dove? Luiz “touched” him but the player was already preparing to go down.

 

[Alklha]

The Wolves player also dove? Luiz “touched” him but the player was already preparing to go down.

No, he didn't. The contact from Luiz disrupted the attackers stride and then he went down, he was not going down in any way prior to the contact. Was the contact from Luiz enough to make him fall over? No, but it was enough to deny a clear goalscoring opportunity and the attacker knows that if you don't fall down the referees don't give a decision. That's not considered a dive.

With Martial, the defender avoids initial contact. Martial then trails a leg while diving, and the defender clips the trailing leg. Martial should have been booked for that incident. There are situations where an attacker can start going down before contact and still get the decision, but that wasn't one of them. This wasn't a difficult decision for VAR and Mike Dean still managed to get it wrong, that's a major problem.

 

[S E P H]

They never fail to disappoint, the ramblings of idiots.

The Luiz decision was 100% correct and nothing to do with VAR. The rules are clear that if a defending player prevents a clear goalscoring opportunity and makes no attempt to play the ball then it is a penalty and a red card. The onus is entirely on Luiz to avoid contact when he runs behind the attacker, there is no space in the rules to allow for "accidents". He prevented a goalscoring opportunity and he made no attempt to play the ball, it's a red card and the referee has no choice in the matter.

So the issue is the rule. Do we want clear cut rules, as it is now, where it's just determining contact and we should see uniformity with the punishment? Or do we want them written more subjectively, and sacrifice uniformity of decisions so referees can use leniency in situations like Luiz?

Where VAR failed yesterday was in the Manchester United game, and that was entirely about an incompetent referee who is determined to make everything about him.

Don't you get it mate? The ref expert on BT said at half time that during game if Luiz did a sliding tackle, he would've gotten a yellow. However, because "somehow" it's a goal denying scenario it turns into an automatic penalty and sending off (which is not even the case considering that the player barely touched him and fell like a tonne of rocks in Jupiter's gravity). If a more severe play leads to a yellow and running in someone's path is a red, then there is clearly and justifiably something wrong in the rule book and with the country's referee programme.

 

[Alklha]

Don't you get it mate? The ref expert on BT said at half time that during game if Luiz did a sliding tackle, he would've gotten a yellow. However, because "somehow" it's a goal denying scenario it turns into an automatic penalty and sending off (which is not even the case considering that the player barely touched him and fell like a tonne of rocks in Jupiter's gravity). If a more severe play leads to a yellow and running in someone's path is a red, then there is clearly and justifiably something wrong in the rule book and with the country's referee programme.

I fully “get it”.

If Luiz had made a sliding tackle in a genuine attempt to play the ball then it would have been a penalty and a yellow card. It would need to be a genuine attempt, not just clattering him. As there was no attempt to play the ball the rules leave the referee absolutely no option but to send the player off.

And saying “more severe” is subjective. The current rule is a relaxation of the old rule, it means that players who make genuine attempts are spared the red card. While I think it was extremely harsh for Luiz in this situation, let’s not pretend we have never seen defenders, hands up and running across the back of attackers in a cynical attempt to clip their heels and look innocent. That’s why the line is black-and-white when it comes to requiring an attempt to play the ball in order to be spared the red.

People want to complain about the rule? Fine, I get that... I don’t like it as it is written. Complaining about how the referee handled it? They simply don’t understand the rules, that incident could very easily end up in the 2021/22 FIFA refereeing seminars as it was handled perfectly.

 

[Savant]

 

[gary69]

Starting to dislike VAR more and more, it's kiiling the athmosphere and exciment, especially inside the stadiums. So siding with Conte's comments this in this respect. These is not how VAR was sold to the public, now we end up watching minutes of replays to spot something that happened much earlier.

Starting to think I'd rather see VAR dropped altogether, if it's use isn't radically changed. Would rather live with referee mistakes again.

 

[cgf]

*shrug* I have no qualms with the way it's been implemented in the BuLi.