Post-Game Talk: Vancouver will pick 5th in the 2017 NHL Draft | Pt 2

Verviticus

Registered User
Jul 23, 2010
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This footspeed argument is what led to Sam Reinhart being drafted in front of Leon Draisaitl in 2014. Whoops.

The reality is, most offense in the NHL is created from slowed-down, sustained possession of the puck in the offensive zone. Vilardi is great at that, and if speed is the reason he's being overlooked, that's sad.

reinhart also had better production, even marginally

for every draisaitl, there's a hodgson or cassels. every flaw can derail a player and every flaw can be overcome. david booth was a ****ing hockey moron but he was an excellent player before his injuries
 

LeftCoast

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Aug 1, 2006
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Writing's been on the wall since Jimbo said "playmaking C or PPQB"

They telegraph everything.

I hate to break it to you, but a "playmaking C or PPQB D" are pretty much always prioritized. They are by far the most rare and hardest to obtain assets in hockey.
 

Verviticus

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Jul 23, 2010
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Ya the Avs pretty much need everything, particularly a top 6 RW. Like the Canucks last season, they also haven't drafted a Dman in the 1st round since 2007. Speaking of the McKinnon draft, the Avs did pretty much draft Dmen the rest of the way so you can't exactly say with certainty that the Avs don't draft by positional needs.



Drouin is available. I can see Dallas making a deal for them. Can the Canucks offer a package around Eriksson to get their pick?

are you under the impression that eriksson has trade value?!
 

MS

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Mar 18, 2002
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Vancouver, BC
Drouin is available. I can see Dallas making a deal for them. Can the Canucks offer a package around Eriksson to get their pick?

Eriksson has negative value. He's worse than worthless.

He would clear waivers right now easily. If we could expose him in the expansion draft, there wouldn't be a hope in hell Vegas picked him. He probably has one of the 10 worst contract in the NHL.

Botch says the "writing is on the wall" about what kind of player the Canucks want, and he doubts they'd take Vilardi at #5 even if he falls. Telegraphed.

We'll take one of Mittelstadt, Glass, or whatever D we have in the top five.

This footspeed argument is what led to Sam Reinhart being drafted in front of Leon Draisaitl in 2014. Whoops.

The reality is, most offense in the NHL is created from slowed-down, sustained possession of the puck in the offensive zone. Vilardi is great at that, and if speed is the reason he's being overlooked, that's sad.

Yup and yup.

We won't take Vilardi, and the reason is that these idiots don't understand how offense is generated in this sport and can't evaluate talent.

Skating has become an over-rated skill in some ways. If you're a big guy and you're a horse on the puck and you have the skill and vision to consistently make plays in tight areas with defenders on top of you, you're first step quickness isn't going to matter.

People get dazzled by rush skills, but most offense is from contained possession. So you see MacKinnon stupidly being selected ahead of Barkov and Reinhart ahead of Draisaitl.
 

CanaFan

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Feb 19, 2010
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I mean, Benning signed him, and Benning can do no wrong, so clearly he's a very sought-after guy.

Also he's just adjusting to a new team, he's a notorious slow starter (my favorite), let's be patient and see what he can do next year, who says he's done improving.

All standard excuses thrown around here at one time or another (maybe not the last one).
 

Bleach Clean

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Aug 9, 2006
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Yup and yup.

We won't take Vilardi, and the reason is that these idiots don't understand how offense is generated in this sport and can't evaluate talent.

Skating has become an over-rated skill in some ways. If you're a big guy and you're a horse on the puck and you have the skill and vision to consistently make plays in tight areas with defenders on top of you, you're first step quickness isn't going to matter.

People get dazzled by rush skills, but most offense is from contained possession. So you see MacKinnon stupidly being selected ahead of Barkov and Reinhart ahead of Draisaitl.


I don't think they will take Vilardi either, all things considered. I know there was a report that they had met with him or his agent, but there is more smoke around Glass and Mittelstadt. One of those two will fall to #5 and that will be it. Vilardi will not be the top choice for them, IMO.

In fairness to your comments above, skating is probably Ehlers' greatest asset... and he seems to be outpacing the Ritchies, the Virtanens and even the Nylanders. There's obviously some value in having a plus skater, depending upon the player, but I think Scouting Staff's get tripped up when they think it leads to a faster team -- This does not necessarily follow. That's at the heart of why skating gets overrated, IMO.

For the Canucks this is doubly confusing because the Sedins have been leading this franchise for over 15 years... and they are slow to average skaters. Was the team not fast in 2011? Did it not have one of the best offenses? Was that offense led by players that preferred the "contained possession" you are talking about?

Just look at this team's very own history. You don't need to draft great skaters to have a great team.
 

lawrence

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May 19, 2012
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I hate to break it to you, but a "playmaking C or PPQB D" are pretty much always prioritized. They are by far the most rare and hardest to obtain assets in hockey.

Not really, 2 of the last 3 seasons we went wing (Virtanen Boeser). At least he's being a little transparent he is looking for a offensive centreman to have a make up of a top 2 centreman for our franchice down the road.
 

Peen

Rejoicing in a Benning-free world
Oct 6, 2013
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a package around Eriksson hahaahhahahahahah that was a good laugh
 

yvrtojfk

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Aug 13, 2016
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I pumped for the draft. I still get a sneaky feeling we will end up picking the one player that doesn't live up to its potential but it will be exciting nonetheless.
 

Disappointed EP40

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Jan 13, 2015
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I pumped for the draft. I still get a sneaky feeling we will end up picking the one player that doesn't live up to its potential but it will be exciting nonetheless.

I am glad for our latter rounds as well.

Least finishing bottom of the standings benefits there a bit. Hoping for some TDL moves for more picks too. All the picks.
 

SelltheTeamFrancesco

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Aug 11, 2015
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I don't think they will take Vilardi either, all things considered. I know there was a report that they had met with him or his agent, but there is more smoke around Glass and Mittelstadt. One of those two will fall to #5 and that will be it. Vilardi will not be the top choice for them, IMO.

In fairness to your comments above, skating is probably Ehlers' greatest asset... and he seems to be outpacing the Ritchies, the Virtanens and even the Nylanders. There's obviously some value in having a plus skater, depending upon the player, but I think Scouting Staff's get tripped up when they think it leads to a faster team -- This does not necessarily follow. That's at the heart of why skating gets overrated, IMO.

For the Canucks this is doubly confusing because the Sedins have been leading this franchise for over 15 years... and they are slow to average skaters. Was the team not fast in 2011? Did it not have one of the best offenses? Was that offense led by players that preferred the "contained possession" you are talking about?

Just look at this team's very own history. You don't need to draft great skaters to have a great team.

Let's be honest there's a 75% chance that Vilardi will not be available when we draft. Especially if he has a good memorial cup. I think the only way he falls is if one of Dallas or Colorado take a dman. If he is there at 5 which means Colorado and Dallas both took a dman or one of them preferred Mittelsadt or Glass we run to the stage and take him.
 

Tinhorn1

Registered User
Aug 7, 2007
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I pumped for the draft. I still get a sneaky feeling we will end up picking the one player that doesn't live up to its potential but it will be exciting nonetheless.

It's a strange cat who gets excited about being disappointed, but I'm behind you, brother.
 

VanJack

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Jul 11, 2014
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Vilardi will be long gone before the Canucks pick at #5.....if he gets by Dallas he won't make it past Colorado....so it's down to Mittelstadt and Glass.....and opinion seems completely divided.....Mittelstadt may have the highest upside, but general consensus is he might need more time.
 

lawrence

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May 19, 2012
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Vilardi will be long gone before the Canucks pick at #5.....if he gets by Dallas he won't make it past Colorado....so it's down to Mittelstadt and Glass.....and opinion seems completely divided.....Mittelstadt may have the highest upside, but general consensus is he might need more time.

I have a feeling the Canucks also like Necas and Petterson, and they are easily in the category of a Vilardo/Mittelstadt.
 

Pastor Of Muppets

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Jan 19, 2017
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Vilardi will be long gone before the Canucks pick at #5.....if he gets by Dallas he won't make it past Colorado....so it's down to Mittelstadt and Glass.....and opinion seems completely divided.....Mittelstadt may have the highest upside, but general consensus is he might need more time.

This is the most likely scenario...I guess the rest depends on whether Benning thinks that either of these players can be a legit 1C..?...If not,he will try for a top pairing Dman.
 

Bleach Clean

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Aug 9, 2006
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Let's be honest there's a 75% chance that Vilardi will not be available when we draft. Especially if he has a good memorial cup. I think the only way he falls is if one of Dallas or Colorado take a dman. If he is there at 5 which means Colorado and Dallas both took a dman or one of them preferred Mittelsadt or Glass we run to the stage and take him.


This is not a given at all. They could favour Glass regardless. Or, Pettersson. Or even Necas.

I want to believe that by taking Boeser in 2015 that they are OK with devaluing skating, but I just don't think they believe this based on the rumours out there. Botchford's insight again speaks to management's focus on skating. It's a trait they are targeting. It would explain their interest in Necas, for instance.


Vilardi will be long gone before the Canucks pick at #5.....if he gets by Dallas he won't make it past Colorado....so it's down to Mittelstadt and Glass.....and opinion seems completely divided.....Mittelstadt may have the highest upside, but general consensus is he might need more time.


Why do you assume this?
 

Kickassguy

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Sep 24, 2002
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Just putting together the pieces from what Botchford and CA have sporadically been mentioning about the Canucks' draft preferences, I get the sense that their ranking is something like this:



1) Hischier

2) Patrick

3) Mittlestadt

4) Liljegren

5) Glass



So basically, as fans, we either really hope Mittlestadt doesn't go at 3 or 4 (someone there will take a d-man, right? Right?!?!) or that Glass surpasses Liljegren in their final internal rankings pre-draft.

This is all assuming no one wants Liljegren @ 5, of course.
 

VanJack

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Jul 11, 2014
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I would be fine with Liljegren at 5. Would not be my first choice. But I would be satisfied.

The only way the Canucks end up with Lilegren is if they trade back in the draft and he's still on the board.......with the possibility that Henrik is into his last season, surely they have to roll the dice on a centre at #5?
 

tantalum

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Apr 2, 2002
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In fairness to your comments above, skating is probably Ehlers' greatest asset... and he seems to be outpacing the Ritchies, the Virtanens and even the Nylanders. There's obviously some value in having a plus skater, depending upon the player, but I think Scouting Staff's get tripped up when they think it leads to a faster team -- This does not necessarily follow. That's at the heart of why skating gets overrated, IMO.

Skating I think can tip the balance to a players favour when they are already solid with other fundamentals. Ehlers' has skill and a lot of it. He is able to use his speed to compliment that skill and make him an effective player. The difference between Ehlers' and Mason Raymond if you will is not the speed but the skill. One was a competent NHL player and the other a budding superstar.

And I agree fast skating doesn't = fast team. Fast, efficient puck movement leads to a quick team. It's why a Brandon Sutter doesn't make a team "quicker" but a Chris Tanev can.

Clearly there is some basic level of skating a player needs to possess but beyond that it has to be all about talent. Especially with this organization that very much lacks it.

I know our illustrious management is already talking center of PPQB types. I don't feel the team is even remotely at the point to start choosing position over a guy who is more talented. They need talent and they need it everywhere multiple times. Not commenting on anyone in the draft as I'm not familiar enough with any of them just the general strategy ought to simply be to pick the most talented and most impactful. I suppose position could play into the impactful thing some but I think you have to be careful with the weighting you give a position at this point.

They are so far away from competing that taking a winger this year isn't going to prolong a rebuild. They are going to need multiple drafts and multiple homeruns in the drafts to right this ship.
 

settinguptheplay

Classless Canuck Fan
Apr 3, 2008
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The only way the Canucks end up with Lilegren is if they trade back in the draft and he's still on the board.......with the possibility that Henrik is into his last season, surely they have to roll the dice on a centre at #5?

So you suggest we draft for need? If Benning thinks Liljegren is BPA at 5 then I think he has to take him. I know his stock has dropped but if his bout with mono was the main factor for his relatively poor season I could see the reasoning in his selection. I am only going by second hand info but my understanding is he had a great playoff.

If the BPA at 5 is a center then by all means you take him. Which I, like you, hope will happen. If not I will still be content with Liljegren. I am nothing more than an armchair scout. Whether I like it or not I have to put my trust in Benning. I like Makar as well but edge to Lilj due to difficulty of the leagues they play in.
 

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