Confirmed with Link: Vanacek traded back to Washington for 2023 2nd round pick

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Hivemind

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Only if they have Arizona and Buffalo as their opponents.
They open against Vancouver, which is like the next best thing :sarcasm:

With the complete lack of goalies for the Sabres and Coyotes, I'm really looking forward to when they play each other. Could be 20 combined goals.
 

JohnCarlsaurus

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Jan 29, 2009
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Would be funny if Vanecek did the whole Half-Baked scene and now comes back and goes " oh hey guys!"

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"f*** you, f*** you, you're cool, and.. f*** you I'm out"
 

StrikingDistance

Buford T. Justice
Mar 19, 2015
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It's crazy funny how a grown man could be fanboying over another dude who's been walking the line of losing his job for like 2 years at least. The commitment is commendable, I'll give you that but can't take this stuff seriously lol.

So, according to you, 'he has done well' equates to fanboying? hahaha
My definition: 'Wow, GMBM is awesome, he can do no wrong, best GM that ever was, best GM that has ever GM'd in a GM job in any sport'.

Also, the past 2 years GMBM on the edge of losing his job? Make sure you order some pizza for the rest of us.

2fI2.gif
 

Cappy76

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The difference is I wasn't bashing him for having opinion in the first place. He did. I'm just pointing out how hypocritical his post looks right now. The guy states with authority that there's no way Ted even thought of firing Maclellan at any point since the cup run. That's just stupid. Literally nobody knows did he actually think about that or not.

I have alot more past circumstantial evidence that points to my opinion than anything you can come up with. Please give me anything that shows that he's "walking the line" for the last 2 years. Ted's track record says otherwise, the fact that the last 2 years are nothing like any GM's have dealt with before, the list goes on and on to support there is next to zero chance the thought has entered Teds mind. Poll the forum and I guarantee it's very very lop sided my way.
Mine is opinion backed up by something yours is just your dreams/desires.
 

SherVaughn30

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Jan 12, 2010
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His first season was actually 2018. Korn took a step back and Scott Murray took over. Holtby regressed. Korn was called back in part-way thru the season to fix Holtby.

Caps winning a Cup in 2018 masks how bad Scott Murray is as a goalie coach. He was just a placeholder goalie coach. I have not seen anything from our young goalies that tells me Murray is having a big impact in helping them become better goalies. To me Murray is the equivalent of Forsythe. The talent makes them both look good, but we know the NHL is more than just having great talent. That talent has know how to play the right way. Sammy has to work a lot on his mental game and Vanecek just doesn't have enough talent to last. I just don't see Murray helping either goalie take the next step.
 

Hivemind

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Caps winning a Cup in 2018 masks how bad Scott Murray is as a goalie coach. He was just a placeholder goalie coach. I have not seen anything from our young goalies that tells me Murray is having a big impact in helping them become better goalies. To me Murray is the equivalent of Forsythe. The talent makes them both look good, but we know the NHL is more than just having great talent. That talent has know how to play the right way. Sammy has to work a lot on his mental game and Vanecek just doesn't have enough talent to last. I just don't see Murray helping either goalie take the next step.
I think comparing Murray to Forsythe isn't fair to Forsythe at all. Even if you feel the Capitals powerplay has gone stale and needs a change (which is a defensible position to hold) and that Forsythe hasn't been able to provide that change, that's still ignoring that Forsythe has been very successful in his role previously. It's not just the talent. The Forsythe/Oates 1-3-1 literally changed how the entire league approaches the powerplay. After they ran this variant of the 1-3-1 out there, almost every other team in the league began copycatting it within 2-3 years. Other teams have other variants to suit their players, but the base structure was adapted from what Washington was doing.

Scott Murray has nothing like that on his resume.
 
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CapitalsCupReality

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Vanny just outperformed expectations last season. A likely career AHL’er forced into a NHL starter role and not flopping.

Sammy is singularly responsible for his own shortcomings and delaying his development arc so far.

Blame the players instead of scapegoating. GMBM, Forsythe, Murray….all steadily employed and yet some fans want them canned because they know better….lol…

Who’s the upgrade at Goalie Coach coming in?
 
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Calicaps

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Vanny just outperformed expectations last season. A likely career AHL’er forced into a NHL starter role and not flopping.

Sammy is singularly responsible for his own shortcomings and delaying his development arc so far.

Blame the players instead of scapegoating. GMBM, Forsythe, Murray….all steadily employed and yet some fans want them canned because they know better….lol…

Who’s the upgrade at Goalie Coach coming in?
Also noteworthy that Vanacek outperforming expectations last year says nothing about the coaching quality.

As I said previously, failure is evidence of suck, but success is purely luck.
 
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Hivemind

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Also noteworthy that Vanacek outperforming expectations last year says nothing about the coaching quality.

As I said previously, failure is evidence of suck, but success is purely luck.
Vanecek performed exactly league-average last year, if you measure it by overall sv% (or by total GSAA where he was a flat 0.00). Other metrics are less kind. Among the 35 goalies with 1100+ mins, his 5v5 sv% was 23rd and his high danger sv% was 32nd. Did he beat expectations? Perhaps, but that's more of a result of very modest expectations, especially for a guy that's already been within Washington's goalie system since 2015. This is still a 2nd round pick goalie that management felt the need to trade up for in the draft. He didn't exactly light the world on fire, and clinging to bringing up a goalie to be passable isn't exactly a crowning achievement for Scott Murray.

Further still, the eye test still confirms weaknesses common to both goalies that a good goalie coach should be correcting. Both goalies had significant issues tracking the puck when it went beneath the goal line. Both goalies had issues reading when to play the puck. Both goalies had big issues with rebound control. These are things that we should have seen more improvement on over the course of a season (or really the multiple seasons in which they've been under Scott Murray's development umbrella), yet they were still thorns in the goalie's sides even down the stretch and into the playoffs. These aren't things that are innate talent related, this isn't that VV lacked the explosiveness or size to make a particular save. These are technique and preparation issues.

It also fits under the broader picture here, and it's far from the first time we've seen issues during Murray's tenure. Holtby was very good under Prior. He tanked under Oates' meddling. Korn brought Holtby to a new level. Korn decided t take a step back and Scott Murray came in, and Holtby's play took a nosedive. Korn comes back late in the season and Holtby is able to regain his form in the playoffs and help them win a Cup. Korn leaves for Long Island and Holtby is alone under the tutelage of Murray. Holtby's play once again tanks. The trend is pretty clear there.

It's just becoming harder and harder to justify hanging onto Murray when guys like Dave Prior and Stephane Waite are available to be hired.
 

Melkor

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I have alot more past circumstantial evidence that points to my opinion than anything you can come up with. Please give me anything that shows that he's "walking the line" for the last 2 years. Ted's track record says otherwise, the fact that the last 2 years are nothing like any GM's have dealt with before, the list goes on and on to support there is next to zero chance the thought has entered Teds mind. Poll the forum and I guarantee it's very very lop sided my way.
Mine is opinion backed up by something yours is just your dreams/desires.
First of all, "poll the forum" is not a serious argument, the forum has as much idea as you about all this stuff which is zero. Secondly, the evidence that the guy doesn't do his job well lately is factual more than opinionated therefore there's the basis for thinking that the questioning of his competency for the job took place at least at some point in Ted's mind. No playoff series won for the last 3 years, goaltending problem is not solved and hasn't been since Holtby came off that cup run and become barely playable for a serious team, the defense aside from Carlson who looked atrocious this year and Orlov is borderline NHL level and the performance of their top-6 F is going downhill with no replacement for any single one of them in sight. That's FACTUAL.

Now there's zero evidence on your part that Ted hasn't even thought of that and literally nothing you can come up with that would actually prove otherwise. He can have a track record of 50 years of not firing people for sucking, that doesn't mean he's not contemplated that yet in this particular case. But sure go on and keep flexing the biceups for this appreciative audience lol.
 

Cappy76

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First of all, "poll the forum" is not a serious argument, the forum has as much idea as you about all this stuff which is zero. Secondly, the evidence that the guy doesn't do his job well lately is factual more than opinionated therefore there's the basis for thinking that the questioning of his competency for the job took place at least at some point in Ted's mind. No playoff series won for the last 3 years, goaltending problem is not solved and hasn't been since Holtby came off that cup run and become barely playable for a serious team, the defense aside from Carlson who looked atrocious this year and Orlov is borderline NHL level and the performance of their top-6 F is going downhill with no replacement for any single one of them in sight. That's FACTUAL.

Now there's zero evidence on your part that Ted hasn't even thought of that and literally nothing you can come up with that would actually prove otherwise. He can have a track record of 50 years of not firing people for sucking, that doesn't mean he's not contemplated that yet in this particular case. But sure go on and keep flexing the biceups for this appreciative audience lol.

Poll the forum wasn't an argument it was more evidence to show that the vast majority would agree that you're comment of two years walking the line from getting canned is at best wild speculation. You say he's been close to it for 2 years and then cry when I say no way. I backed up my opinion with evidence and you change the goalpost again and still wildly speculate using random nonsense to support your point. I said there was a less than 5% chance he has even thought about canning him over the last two years and point to previous regime changes within Teds organizations (this isn't debatable it's a fact). I point to the 2 strangest years ever for GMs across the league giving many more rope than normal (also not debatable as this worldwide pandemic hasn't occurred during an NHL year where the league was as large so again fact).

Now to respond to your "evidence" to the contrary. Our goaltending is a problem? Our goaltending is young and unproven there is a difference in case you weren't aware. Last season option 1 and 2 were down before the season even started meaning we started with our 3rd string goalie. The fact that he then took the ball and ran with it garnering Calder votes in the process proves that goaltending wasn't the biggest issue. Please tell me how 1st and 2nd options being dropped off the table and then option 3 succeeding is seen as a problem. Samsonov get's another year to try and take the reigns and live up the potential that everyone (not just GMBM) saw in him over the years prior to him being our expected starter. VV is brought back as a reliable known commodity on a cost affective contract. Far from a GM doing such a horrible job that he needs to be canned.

Our D outside of Carlson and Orlov is borderline NHL level? Kemps has been a steal from the trade here until the injury. Dillion just fetched 2 2nd round picks (but he's not NHL caliber?), Jensen underlining numbers were great with Chara, Chara was a great value vet/leadership add, Fever is ready for full time, AA is on the way. Far from a 2 D-men roster as you suggest.

The teams problem in the playoffs has been completely tied to 5v5 scoring in the playoffs. But you want to say our top 6 F group is going down hill with no replacement for any single one of them in sight. Backstrom, was a complete beast first half of last season, Ovie was Ovie and is until otherwise shown, Kuzy granted is an enigma, Oshie has been the same player for us since we traded for him season after season, Wilson has also been a solid producer, Mantha was just added and now will have a full camp with the new system and teammates. Who in the top 6 is going down hill?

Once again you move the topic here by saying "Now there's zero evidence on my part that Ted hasn't even thought of that" I never said there was. Go back and read and you'll see that my comment was saying you were way off base if you think that he's been toeing the line of being canned that simply is not at all the case. All your evidence is a complete fabrication of what you believe is wrong with the team. It isn't supported by anything of substance.....

....also I love how you think everyone is just pandering for likes around here. I think someone is a little jealous but if that's truly what you think is going on then....


Flex.jpg
 

g00n

Retired Global Mod
Nov 22, 2007
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First of all, "poll the forum" is not a serious argument, the forum has as much idea as you about all this stuff which is zero. Secondly, the evidence that the guy doesn't do his job well lately is factual more than opinionated therefore there's the basis for thinking that the questioning of his competency for the job took place at least at some point in Ted's mind. No playoff series won for the last 3 years, goaltending problem is not solved and hasn't been since Holtby came off that cup run and become barely playable for a serious team, the defense aside from Carlson who looked atrocious this year and Orlov is borderline NHL level and the performance of their top-6 F is going downhill with no replacement for any single one of them in sight. That's FACTUAL.

Now there's zero evidence on your part that Ted hasn't even thought of that and literally nothing you can come up with that would actually prove otherwise. He can have a track record of 50 years of not firing people for sucking, that doesn't mean he's not contemplated that yet in this particular case. But sure go on and keep flexing the biceups for this appreciative audience lol.

This post wins Olympic gold in Mental Gymnastics.
 

txpd

Registered User
Jan 25, 2003
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Glad VV is back. Even if he was League average, that’s still acceptable for a rookie.

If you consider the new system and the new coach and the demands and changes in the defense corp and that he had to start 17 games in a row during that period, that he was at the league average is actually saying something
 

ALLCAPSALLTHETIME

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Oct 10, 2009
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If you consider the new system and the new coach and the demands and changes in the defense corp and that he had to start 17 games in a row during that period, that he was at the league average is actually saying something

Agreed. He literally saved the Caps’ bacon this past season.

Glad he’s back and I hope he can build on what he’s done.
 

kicksavedave

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The question about VV, same with Sammy, is not "were they worth the money" last year because both were paid very little and performed "OK", so thats clearly a yes. The question should be, does either one have the upside to become a very good playoff caliber goalie. I think the jury is still somewhat out on that but the safe bet is that Sammy has the upside if he can get his head right, and VV appears to be at or close to his peak NHL performance level, given his age and overall experience. Sure, he could take a big jump this year, but that's not the safe bet. The more likely outcome is a modest improvement, but not a leap into the All Star level which we kinda need.

So like @ALLCAPSALLTHETIME says, I hope he can build on what he's done but I'm not counting on a big lead forward... just a small one.
 
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txpd

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The question about VV, same with Sammy, is not "were they worth the money" last year because both were paid very little and performed "OK", so thats clearly a yes. The question should be, does either one have the upside to become a very good playoff caliber goalie. I think the jury is still somewhat out on that but the safe bet is that Sammy has the upside if he can get his head right, and VV appears to be at or close to his peak NHL performance level, given his age and overall experience. Sure, he could take a big jump this year, but that's not the safe bet. The more likely outcome is a modest improvement, but not a leap into the All Star level which we kinda need.

So like @ALLCAPSALLTHETIME says, I hope he can build on what he's done but I'm not counting on a big lead forward... just a small one.

How does he appear to be at or close to his peak? He came in as the taxi squad goalie that was not expected to play in any games(NHL or AHL) as a result. In short order he was the only goalie. He is playing ALL the games. He is playing behind a team that spent most of that time trying to learn a new system. A system where the defense is very aggressive on offense and hung him out as a matter of course. These were his first NHL games. I am not sure how you could say that we have seen his best?

What we know is that he is mentally tough. He handled suddenly having to carry the entire load himself without any experience. He physically handled that 17 games in a row as well. These are both things that Samsonov has no positives to show. Samsonov has pedigree. Thats it.

If I needed to go for broke and steal a game I would try Samsonov. He I need a reliable and consistent performance that the team would be confident in front of, I would take Vanecek all day, Right now the Caps have the best of both. They can plan on Samsonov and if he still isnt prepared to be a professional or live in North America or physically can't handle playing 5 games in a row, they have a rock solid Vanecek ready to play
 

Hivemind

We're Touched
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How does he appear to be at or close to his peak?
The fact that several of us have watched and followed him for longer than just last year, combined with the eye test. He doesn't have elite size, or explosive quickness, or even absolute technical mastery. He can patch up some of the technical areas of his game and try and improve some (reading the puck beneath the goal line, puck movement, rebound control), but none of that is going to propel him to a whole different level of goaltending. He hasn't even displayed the same dominance in the minor leagues that other previous Caps netminders did. The comparison people like to make is Michal Neuvirth, but Neuvy was absolutely dominant in Hershey (specifically during their back-to-back Calder runs). VV hasn't shown that "next level" in his gameplay at any of the levels he's competed at.

These are both things that Samsonov has no positives to show. Samsonov has pedigree. Thats it.
Samsonov also has his 2019-20 season, where his save percentage was 16 points higher than the other goalie on the roster. He's given us a taste of his potential at the NHL level. He's demonstrated that he can be an above average (or better) NHL goaltender.
 

txpd

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Samsonov also has his 2019-20 season, where his save percentage was 16 points higher than the other goalie on the roster. He's given us a taste of his potential at the NHL level. He's demonstrated that he can be an above average (or better) NHL goaltender.

Whats the difference between Samsonov's 19-20 and Vanecek's 20-21? One primary difference? Samsonov was the back up goalie. His games were chosen for him to provide tbe best change for success. He didnt play more than one game in a row and he didn't play the big games. When they gave him that big Pens game, he wasn't good and he wasn't good from there on. Vanecek played all the games. There was no choice. He played all the good teams and all the road games. He played both ends of a back to back.

Maybe I don't know shit about hockey, but if you reversed the roles there I'd bet Vanecek's numbers would be better and Samsonov's worse. But thats just me.

I have this marked down though. Lets see how they play. I am confident that with experience Vanecek will improve as should Samsonov.
 
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