Confirmed with Link: [VAN/VGK] Canucks acquire D Nate Schmidt for a 3rd in 2022

[Nucker101]

Jesus. I never said it was a bad trade, I just wondered if there was an opportunity to extract more from the Knights, given their situation and the unprecedented situation the league is in.

But circle jerk away.

“Would you run the risk of blowing the deal? Sure. I think you should try to extract as much value wherever possible.”

Hence the backlash or “circle jerk”

 

[DonnyNucker]

“Would you run the risk of blowing the deal? Sure. I think you should try to extract as much value wherever possible.”

Hence the backlash or “circle jerk”

Benning holds firm and only offers a 5th two years from now instead of a 3rd two years from now. Florida comes to the table with a 2nd and wins the player. HF Boards “great work by Benning sticking to his guns. Shrewd negotiator that understood that LV had cap pressures and wouldn’t bend.”

 

[m9]

Jesus. I never said it was a bad trade, I just wondered if there was an opportunity to extract more from the Knights, given their situation and the unprecedented situation the league is in.

But circle jerk away.

Much like Benning might have fallen into this trade, I think you fell into the issue with assuming that Benning had an opportunity to extract more from Vegas.

Obviously Vegas needed the deal to sign AP. You know who else really, really needed the deal? Jim Benning. There were no other high-end defensemen available.

Both sides were highly motivated to get this deal done and couldn't afford not to do it. So, the leverage got back to pretty even.

It's like the Miller trade from last year. People said we should have held out and paid Tampa less because we had leverage. But did we? JT Miller saved Benning's job. So who really had the leverage, Brisebois or Benning?

 

[Hit the post]

Other terrible additions are colouring people's viewpoints of the good additions.

 

[Bleach Clean]

Benning holds firm and only offers a 5th two years from now instead of a 3rd two years from now. Florida comes to the table with a 2nd and wins the player. HF Boards “great work by Benning sticking to his guns. Shrewd negotiator that understood that LV had cap pressures and wouldn’t bend.”

Why is FLA being mentioned here? Was there a report that they were involved?

 

[m9]

Why is FLA being mentioned here? Was there a report that they were involved?

Yes, the original report was Schmidt was getting traded to Florida.

 

[F A N]

Jesus. I never said it was a bad trade, I just wondered if there was an opportunity to extract more from the Knights, given their situation and the unprecedented situation the league is in.

But circle jerk away.

There is always an opportunity to extract more. But you run the risk of the deal falling through.

Some people, when they see the product they want at an incredible price, they try and purchase it right away. Some people want to see if another store would beat that price. The latter people might get a 10% better price or they lose out because the product is now out of stock.

 

[GumbyCan2]

Isn’t Schmidt worth the 2022 third though? Benning is a terrible GM, but maybe he did good here?

Sure he is, in team need, position played, experience and most recent showing. No current roster player or foreseen next season after starter, role position filler given up now. Won't know true value, effectiveness until year of that player chosen in that spot, starts playing and producing.
Then compare that projected player with what, how he is performing and importance to Vegas, to what Scmidt has done for and continues to do for the 'Nucks. Great value right now. He is affordable, don't have to trade another valued asset ( player) to fit Schmidt in.

 

[DonnyNucker]

Why is FLA being mentioned here? Was there a report that they were involved?

I’m just making a joke. There was a rumour that Florida was involved but I have no idea if they ever made a pitch

 

[Bleach Clean]

Yes, the original report was Schmidt was getting traded to Florida.

That’s interesting, I’ll look for it. It would have put them at 31~ million committed to the defense. Big money.

Unless they wanted to send money back?

 

[m9]

That’s interesting, I’ll look for it. It would have put them at 31~ million committed to the defense. Big money.

Unless they wanted to send money back?

How would that have helped Vegas accomplish their goal?

 

[Bleach Clean]

How would that have helped Vegas accomplish their goal?

It wouldn’t have, which is why when FLA was mentioned as a destination, I questioned it. Given their situation, that is a lot of money to take on.

Will have to dig into the rumour and their cap situation again.

 

[Scholarships]

Dhaliwal talked about Schmidt here. At about 15:40 remaining he talks about Schmidt to Florida

As reports said, Schmidt was supposed to go to Florida. Allegedly, Florida offered a draft pick and a prospect. According to Dhaliwal, the prospect was "pretty good."

Reading between the lines here, it seems Schmidt did not list Florida as a trade destination.

 

[Billy Kvcmu]

Dhaliwal talked about Schmidt here. At about 15:40 remaining he talks about Schmidt to Florida

As reports said, Schmidt was supposed to go to Florida. Allegedly, Florida offered a draft pick and a prospect. According to Dhaliwal, the prospect was "pretty good."

Reading between the lines here, it seems Schmidt did not list Florida as a trade destination.

Smart guy consider what’s going on in Florida

 

[Billy Kvcmu]

Of course here we are arguing if Van could had gotten more out of the deal
HFCanucks never change

 

[Billy Kvcmu]

When a top-pairing defenseman becomes available at that price (which is almost never), with a very fair/affordable cap hit, you have to be willing to pull the trigger quickly. Maybe you pass up the opportunity to milk every drop of value from the trade but you can't afford to lose out on the deal.

When people watch Schmidt play, day-in-and-day-out, there won't be a single criticism of this trade. This is a guy who literally tilts the ice almost every time he's on (plus-129 shot differential last season), while playing his team's toughest minutes. Extra assets be damned.

I won’t be so sure consider people are still questioning the Miller trade

 

[MS]

Much like Benning might have fallen into this trade, I think you fell into the issue with assuming that Benning had an opportunity to extract more from Vegas.

Obviously Vegas needed the deal to sign AP. You know who else really, really needed the deal? Jim Benning. There were no other high-end defensemen available.

Both sides were highly motivated to get this deal done and couldn't afford not to do it. So, the leverage got back to pretty even.

It's like the Miller trade from last year. People said we should have held out and paid Tampa less because we had leverage. But did we? JT Miller saved Benning's job. So who really had the leverage, Brisebois or Benning?

There are times to extract value and times to take a stupid offer before someone else grabs it.

Not at all the same thing as Miller. An unprotected #1 pick for a guy coming off a 40-point season is not the same thing as a 3rd rounder for a rival’s #1 defender on a good contract.

Benning fluked into this, but once it was in front of him he 100% did the right thing.

 

[Dissonance Jr]

Okay, so it sounds like McCrimmon made an early pass at talking to other teams about Schmidt and a bunch of other GMs maybe tried to squeeze him on price, thinking Vegas was desperate. (Meanwhile, per Drance, it sounds like Florida was ready to offer a decent package but were maybe on Schmidt's no-trade list?) And then Benning jumped on the Schmidt offer when Vegas called, either because he shrewdly assessed the situation or because he doesn't really know how to negotiate. Either way, it was the right move on his part.

I still don't fully understand why Vegas was so willing to send a very good defender to a division rival that had nearly ousted them in the playoffs just a few weeks ago. Maybe they were just in a scramble to sign Pietrangelo and didn't have the bandwidth to circle back to other teams. Or they just aren't that worried about the Canucks next year. Or they really think this Canada division thing is going to happen.

Oh well, good for us.

 

[m9]

There are times to extract value and times to take a stupid offer before someone else grabs it.

Not at all the same thing as Miller. An unprotected #1 pick for a guy coming off a 40-point season is not the same thing as a 3rd rounder for a rival’s #1 defender on a good contract.

Benning fluked into this, but once it was in front of him he 100% did the right thing.

That's fair. I have other thoughts, but this isn't really the thread for it. As it relates to this trade, my point was that both sides needed each other and Benning didn't have leverage over the Knights to demand more from them.

 

[MS]

That's fair. I have other thoughts, but this isn't really the thread for it. As it relates to this trade, my point was that both sides needed each other and Benning didn't have leverage over the Knights to demand more from them.

Oh, I have other thoughts, too.

But in the end - for whatever the reason - he did the right thing and accepted a stupid good deal when it was presented to him, while others dithered and missed it. So I can’t criticize that.

 

[BWJM]

Reading between the lines here, it seems Schmidt did not list Florida as a trade destination.

Yeah I think he said he had always dreamt of playing in a big market. Judging by his personality too, he's the kinda guy that will thrive with the fans.

He probably only had big market teams on that list. Thank god. Sorry Florida.

 

[bandwagonesque]

There are times to extract value and times to take a stupid offer before someone else grabs it.

Not at all the same thing as Miller. An unprotected #1 pick for a guy coming off a 40-point season is not the same thing as a 3rd rounder for a rival’s #1 defender on a good contract.

Benning fluked into this, but once it was in front of him he 100% did the right thing.

They didn't trade an unprotected pick for Miller. The conditions placed on the pick are literally what pick protection means.

 

[rypper]

They didn't trade an unprotected pick for Miller. The conditions placed on the pick are literally what pick protection means.

If the Canucks missed the playoffs last season and this upcoming one, would the pick have been a) lottery protected or b) unprotected?

 

[bandwagonesque]

If the Canucks missed the playoffs last season and this upcoming one, would the pick have been a) lottery protected or b) unprotected?

It would have been protected, and the protection is what would have permitted the pick to slide to the following year. Again -- that's simply what the phrase means. The Canucks traded a protected pick. Except for a tiny number of exceptions in the NBA where the pick eventually converts to another asset, all protected picks eventually are awarded unconditionally if they are still outstanding once the protection elapses.

 

[MS]

They didn't trade an unprotected pick for Miller. The conditions placed on the pick are literally what pick protection means.

A ‘protected’ pick is if it’s a #1 if you make the playoffs and a #2 if you don’t and the pick is locked into the 16-45 range.

If you want to get technical, this was ‘semi-protected’. If not for COVID, we’re probably staring at giving up an unprotected pick in 2021.

If the exact same conditions were on the Neely deal, we give up the Linden pick instead of the Wesley pick.