Confirmed with Link: [VAN/SJ] Hansen(20% ret.) for Goldobin, Cond'l '17 4th (becomes 1st if SJ wins Cup)

F A N

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I just think he is further along the development path than the players I would prefer we target. I think where we are at we should he adding picks and u20 prospects. That is just my opinion.

I think further along the development path shouldn't be a bad thing. It's all about getting the player. Apparently, the Canucks scouted Goldobin heavily in his draft year and I suppose they like what they see. Anyways, Goldobin was drafted in the same year as Virtanen and McCann and born in the same year as Horvat. I don't view this as a bad thing.
 

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The thing that kind of puzzles me is that they had a chance to get Goldobin, yet still picked McCann over him. We aren't talking Larkin over Virtanen, these are two guys that should have been rated fairly close to each other.

I'm a fan of the trade though. I've read through this thread and while I agree with the sentiment that we should be targeting picks and younger prospects due to their upside, Goldobin is a bit of an outlier in that I think he does still very high upside due to his offensive skill.
 

FroshaugFan2

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The thing that kind of puzzles me is that they had a chance to get Goldobin, yet still picked McCann over him. We aren't talking Larkin over Virtanen, these are two guys that should have been rated fairly close to each other.

I'm a fan of the trade though. I've read through this thread and while I agree with the sentiment that we should be targeting picks and younger prospects due to their upside, Goldobin is a bit of an outlier in that I think he does still very high upside due to his offensive skill.

I believe it was Benning who commented after this trade that they drafted McCann over Goldobin because they wanted a center.

Edit: Found it.

[Tweet]836820718964867072[/MEDIA]
 
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timw33

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I believe it was Benning who commented after this trade that they drafted McCann over Goldobin because they wanted a center.

Edit: Found it.

[Tweet]836820718964867072[/MEDIA]

That's a dumb reason to take McCann. Should still take BPA in the 1st round, even if it's your 2nd pick—arguably you should take bigger swings if you have multiple firsts.
 

VanJack

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That's a dumb reason to take McCann. Should still take BPA in the 1st round, even if it's your 2nd pick—arguably you should take bigger swings if you have multiple firsts.

No, it wasn't dumb to take McCann....but it was dumb play his as a 19 year old in the NHL with a double dose of healthy scratches; refuse to release him to play in the World Juniors; and then deal him before he even developed for Gudbranson, a slightly more upscale version of Andrew Alberts.
 

JA

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No, it wasn't dumb to take McCann....but it was dumb play his as a 19 year old in the NHL with a double dose of healthy scratches; refuse to release him to play in the World Juniors; and then deal him before he even developed for Gudbranson, a slightly more upscale version of Andrew Alberts.
McCann was considered to be a lower-risk player. Several teams passed on Goldobin for that same reason -- the risks were high. While their upside may not have been as high, they were safer selections. Skill-wise, Goldobin was at the very top of the 2014 NHL Draft class alongside just a handful of others.

The Canucks could have selected him 24th overall. McCann was ranked 11th overall in the MyNHLDraft.com consensus rankings, though (using data from ISS, Dobber Prospects, Craig Button, Hockey Prospect, McKeen's, and Future Considerations). McCann at 24th was itself a surprise, as he was expected to be drafted earlier.

http://www.mynhldraft.com/2014-nhl-draft-prospect-consensus-rankings/

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2108910-nikolai-goldobin-prospect-profile-for-san-jose-sharks-1st-round-pick
Nikolay Goldobin: Prospect Profile for San Jose Sharks' 1st-Round Pick
Brad Kurtzberg

...

Nikolay Goldobin is an enigma to many scouts. Nobody doubts his immense skill set and that he has the potential to be a very dangerous offensive player. But many scouts question whether or not the talented Russian will care enough to be successful on a nightly basis over the course of an 82-game season. Goldobin already spent the last two years in North America, playing for the Sarnia Sting of the OHL.

...

Goldobin has the kind of natural ability that excites talent evaluators.

TSN's Craig Button summed up the view of many scouts before the draft when he said this about Goldobin:

"Excellent poise with puck and he can hold it to allow the play to develop. Handles puck in traffic very well and while he may not look like he's going fast, he plays fast yet not in a hurry. Takes advantage of what is given to him."

Elite Prospects described Goldobin this way (h/t Brad Friedman, BlueJackets.com):

"Goldobin is a dangerous shooter with a wicked release on his wrist shot. He is quick and creative and can make defenders look foolish. He's weak against bigger opponents and can look lost in his own zone but is extremely dangerous and can quietly slide into prime scoring areas."

While there is a lot to like about Goldobin, his play at Sarnia also raised several concerns. One scout was quoted in The Hockey News' draft preview issue as saying Goldobin, "Has great hands. He has tons of ability, but has the tendency to be moody on the ice. He doesn't always show up and that can be frustrating for a team."

This inconsistency may or may not be a result of playing for a Sarnia club that was overmatched on most nights. Some thought it may keep Goldobin out of the first round of the draft, despite his immense talent. If he overcomes this questionable attitude, he could end up being one of the best value picks of the draft in the late first round.

...

At his top potential, Goldobin is a first-line forward who puts fear in opposing players every time he gets the puck on his stick. He is capable of scoring 35 to 40 goals a year if his effort and attitude issues are resolved. He could also accumulate between 75 to 80 points a year, more if he is teamed with enough talented players to convert his passes into goals and get him the puck in quality scoring situations.

http://thehockeywriters.com/why-nikolay-goldobin-could-be-the-best-draft-pick-of-2014/
Why Nikolay Goldobin Could Be the Best Draft Pick of 2014
June 28th, 2014
Andrew Wilson

With the 27th pick in the 2014 NHL Entry Draft, the San Jose Sharks selected right wing Nikolay Goldobin. The Sharks traded down from the 20th overall pick with the Chicago Blackhawks to select Goldobin who led all OHL rookie’s in scoring and also led his team in scoring. The Russian factor was in play during the draft as only two Russians were taken in the first round. Goldobin is the first Russian born player drafted in the first round by the Sharks since 1996. San Jose has selected a mere two Russian or Soviet born players in the past 17 drafts, all of which were after the fifth round.

...

The Russian Factor

The Sharks have not drafted a solid player from Russia since 1994 but Nikolay Goldobin’s story is very different than all of the Russian players drafted before him. The biggest difference is that he decided to move to North America to play in the OHL instead of staying to play in Russia. The driving factor behind this decision is the man that represents him, Igor Larionov. The Same Larionov that played for the San Jose Sharks in the NHL. Igor Larionov’s resume includes three Stanley Cup rings, two Olympic Gold Medals, numerous medals in the World Championships, World Juniors and Canada Cup as well as being inducted into the Hockey Hall of Fame. He was one of the first who helped pave the way for Russians to succeed in the NHL.

If Goldobin was not Russian he would have been taken in the top 10. He finished sixth in OHL scoring and was the runner up for the OHL rookie of the year award. Despite Goldobin’s offensive talent he has to improve on the defensive side of the puck as he finished a minus 30 last season with Sarnia Sting.

...
http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showpost.php?p=87137231&postcount=84
OHLW: Having been in on almost 48% of the Stings' offense, it goes without saying he has elite offensive talent. How do you see him bringing that to the NHL level?

Ross: What Goldobin has accomplished as an OHL with such little offensive support is very impressive, as he sits as one of the OHL's top producers after leading all rookie scorers in 2012-13. He's proven that he can lead the offensive charge but also compliments teammates well sending slick imaginary passes for easy tap-in goals. At the next level, Goldobin could adopt a similar role as current NHLers such as Jordan Eberle or Patrick Kane - two players who can slow the game down with using exceptional puck handling abilities. He's the type of player who can buy extra time for teammates using his deceptive hands and projects as a future staple on the power play.

OHLW: Goldobin is all over the map in some Independent draft rankings. In your opinion, why is that?

Ross: It's a bit perplexing to me why he's ranked so drastically different in the draft rankings, especially in a draft class that is void of players lacking his high end offensive abilities. I am sure his defensive inconsistencies, wavering compete level and even his Russian passport concern some scouting agencies and contribute to these variances. Similarly to Max Domi being selected 12th overall last season, teams looking to add skill should consider Goldobin in the top half of the first round as well. It will be interesting to watch Goldobin and his Sarnia Sting to see if they creep into a playoff position. Goldobin could elevate his value with a strong showing in the post-season as he's been known to have a "clutch" element in his game - just ask the London Knights.
http://www.stanleycupofchowder.com/2014/6/24/5837618/nhl-draft-sbnation-mock-draft-bruins-nikolay-goldobin

Future Considerations:
"Routinely makes defenders look silly with his quick hands and moves...has a relatively hard, accurate wrist shot that he uses to fool goaltenders....shoots from all angles in the offensive zone...one-timer is automatic and already pro-caliber...has the talent and skill set to be a real blue-chip prospect, but when his defensive effort level is off, he seems disinterested all around and it shows in his offensive performance as well...if this kid brought it every shift he would be the top pick this season."
HockeyProspect.com:
"Goldobin has come miles since first arriving in Sarnia [at the 2012 CHL import draft] and is one of the most dangerous offensive threats in the Ontario Hockey League...he has the ability to score highlight reel goals and scores from angles that seem near impossible. He has soft hands and a laser quick release on his shot...what's most impressive about Nikolay is his passing ability. He makes high-difficulty passes look easy and has an exceptional level of vision...he is extremely creative and regularly chooses smart options with the puck. Based on pure offensive talent he is one of the most pure skilled players in the entire 2014 NHL Draft. [However], he is uninterested in physical play unless he has the puck and is capable of evading contact with skill....his defensive play is very hit or miss...his play without the puck makes him a real wildcard in this draft...his timid style around contact without the puck gives him a concerning bust factor."
Corey Pronman:
Goldobin was one of the top scorers in the OHL in his second season in the league; his pure offensive skill package is outstanding, one of the best in the class. He’s a gifted playmaker, which allows him to be the primary creator on the power play from the side wall. Goldobin sees his options quickly, and delivers all his passes on the tape even if he has to elevate the puck. He projects as a fantastic power-play asset at the NHL level. At the risk of furthering a stereotype about Russian forwards, Goldobin’s main issues are off the puck. He needs to win more battles, gain strength and improve his defense.
There doesn't appear to be quite as much risk anymore, as Goldobin's development has been very steady with the San Jose Sharks organization. He has improved each season in all facets of the game, according to Sharks observers. There still are legitimate concerns, but I don't think they are as great as they once were.
 
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Toxic0n

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Didn't realize we retained salary on Hansen. This moves the trade from a solid B to a C+ in my eyes. Still in Top 3 Benning trades so I'm ok with it. I think.
 

Skead

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Didn't realize we retained salary on Hansen. This moves the trade from a solid B to a C+ in my eyes. Still in Top 3 Benning trades so I'm ok with it. I think.

I think it should be rated higher than that. Given hansen had a NTC, 30 years old, and would need protection. We always begged Canucks to make the "risky" pick of skill vs safe and he essentially did that. Even if Goldobin doesn't pan out the more players you have like him the better you have a chance at getting a game changer. Solid A- from me.
 

CanaFan

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I think it should be rated higher than that. Given hansen had a NTC, 30 years old, and would need protection. We always begged Canucks to make the "risky" pick of skill vs safe and he essentially did that. Even if Goldobin doesn't pan out the more players you have like him the better you have a chance at getting a game changer. Solid A- from me.

Hansen gave an 8 team trade list, likely filled mostly with cup contenders. 20 teams apparently called Benning about Hansen, likely mostly cup contenders and playoff teams.

The NTC should have had no negative impact on a player with that much demand and giving that many options.
 

AwesomeInTheory

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I think it should be rated higher than that. Given hansen had a NTC, 30 years old, and would need protection. We always begged Canucks to make the "risky" pick of skill vs safe and he essentially did that. Even if Goldobin doesn't pan out the more players you have like him the better you have a chance at getting a game changer. Solid A- from me.

Apparently NTCs don't apply for protection in the expansion draft. I had thought the same thing.
 

denkiteki

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I was under the assumption that you needed to be 20 before the AHL season started to be eligable to play for CHLers atleast

That only holds true if you are drafted out of the CHL. Euro players often play in the AHL @ 19.

Of course in most cases, if a Euro player wants to play in NA early, the team that draft them might work out an agreement with a CHL team so that player can play there (and thus slide their ELC/not waste a year of development (team control).

For example, Cederholm could've played in the AHL right away but 'nucks worked out a deal with Portland for him to play there (and thus they picked him up in the import draft).
 

Kryten

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That only holds true if you are drafted out of the CHL. Euro players often play in the AHL @ 19.

Of course in most cases, if a Euro player wants to play in NA early, the team that draft them might work out an agreement with a CHL team so that player can play there (and thus slide their ELC/not waste a year of development (team control).

For example, Cederholm could've played in the AHL right away but 'nucks worked out a deal with Portland for him to play there (and thus they picked him up in the import draft).

Oh I knew that I was just unsure of the date of year cut off for CHL players to play in the AHL. Cederholm couldve played in the A right away but he is hot garbage and not good enough for the farm
 

F A N

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That's a dumb reason to take McCann. Should still take BPA in the 1st round, even if it's your 2nd pick—arguably you should take bigger swings if you have multiple firsts.

Oh C'mmon. You should know by now that Benning isn't someone who is precise in his words. What he probably meant was that the two were close and McCann being a C sealed the deal. McCann also was the consensus BPA. TSN had him ranked 16 while Goldy was 37th.
 

jd22

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Not a huge fan of the 20% retention but it's clear Doug Wilson was aiming for that condition the whole time - Sharks have very little wiggle room.

That said, if the Sedins are ever moved we can now only retain on one of them, which could be problematic.

I had a thought yesterday - would it be viable to trade Sedin to Vegas for futures at a 7 mil cap hit, Vegas trades Sedin back for a prospect or a second round pick while retaining 50%, and then the Canucks are only stuck with a 3.5 million cap hit? Does the CBA prevent this?

Seems this could be a viable option for both teams - Vegas gets a free pick for less than one year of 3.5 million dead space, while Canucks would be able to package both sedins at a cap hit of 7 million.

Is this a viable thing? Would anyone be opposed if I proposed this on the main boards? I don't wish to be one of the nutters.
 

Kryten

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Not a huge fan of the 20% retention but it's clear Doug Wilson was aiming for that condition the whole time - Sharks have very little wiggle room.

That said, if the Sedins are ever moved we can now only retain on one of them, which could be problematic.

I had a thought yesterday - would it be viable to trade Sedin to Vegas for futures at a 7 mil cap hit, Vegas trades Sedin back for a prospect or a second round pick while retaining 50%, and then the Canucks are only stuck with a 3.5 million cap hit? Does the CBA prevent this?

Seems this could be a viable option for both teams - Vegas gets a free pick for less than one year of 3.5 million dead space, while Canucks would be able to package both sedins at a cap hit of 7 million.

Is this a viable thing? Would anyone be opposed if I proposed this on the main boards? I don't wish to be one of the nutters.

I would hold off from posting that on the mainboards since I believe you cannot trade back with Vegas for a year after the first move with the same player
 

jd22

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I would hold off from posting that on the mainboards since I believe you cannot trade back with Vegas for a year after the first move with the same player

Oh, I wasn't aware of that rule. Thank you.

In that case, and this gets quite complicated (probably too much for this management) would it be possible or plausible to use a third team as a middle man?

Sedin and a 2nd to Vegas for futures

Vegas trades Sedin at 50% retained to, say, Florida for futures

Florida trades Sedin to Vancouver for a 4th

I am not trying to make this up just for poops and chuckles, honestly curious as to the viability of it.
 

Kryten

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Oh, I wasn't aware of that rule. Thank you.

In that case, and this gets quite complicated (probably too much for this management) would it be possible or plausible to use a third team as a middle man?

Sedin and a 2nd to Vegas for futures

Vegas trades Sedin at 50% retained to, say, Florida for futures

Florida trades Sedin to Vancouver for a 4th

I am not trying to make this up just for poops and chuckles, honestly curious as to the viability of it.

I get what youre saying but we would be punished for violating a rule by doing that. Cant reacquire a player for a full calendar year. Although waivers might be different
 

Boose Brudreau

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Not a huge fan of the 20% retention but it's clear Doug Wilson was aiming for that condition the whole time - Sharks have very little wiggle room.

That said, if the Sedins are ever moved we can now only retain on one of them, which could be problematic.

I had a thought yesterday - would it be viable to trade Sedin to Vegas for futures at a 7 mil cap hit, Vegas trades Sedin back for a prospect or a second round pick while retaining 50%, and then the Canucks are only stuck with a 3.5 million cap hit? Does the CBA prevent this?

Seems this could be a viable option for both teams - Vegas gets a free pick for less than one year of 3.5 million dead space, while Canucks would be able to package both sedins at a cap hit of 7 million.

Is this a viable thing? Would anyone be opposed if I proposed this on the main boards? I don't wish to be one of the nutters.

kind of unlikely the Sedins are ever traded IMO, but if they wanted to be, there are other ways to put a deal together. Could take back a bad contract....perhaps one with term to increase the return.

My gut tells me that the twins aren't going to be hired guns; when the time comes, they'll pass the torch to Bo and retire as Canucks.
 

nuckfan insk

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No, it wasn't dumb to take McCann....but it was dumb play his as a 19 year old in the NHL with a double dose of healthy scratches; refuse to release him to play in the World Juniors; and then deal him before he even developed for Gudbranson, a slightly more upscale version of Andrew Alberts.

This is all very true.
 

jd22

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kind of unlikely the Sedins are ever traded IMO, but if they wanted to be, there are other ways to put a deal together. Could take back a bad contract....perhaps one with term to increase the return.

My gut tells me that the twins aren't going to be hired guns; when the time comes, they'll pass the torch to Bo and retire as Canucks.

I agree with the sentiment, but I am caught up with new shiny toys. :P
 

nuckfan insk

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Didn't realize we retained salary on Hansen. This moves the trade from a solid B to a C+ in my eyes. Still in Top 3 Benning trades so I'm ok with it. I think.

This year I was fine with, but I wanted to keep the option of retaining on 2 players next season. Also kills any dreams of trading both sedins @50% next deadline
 

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