Confirmed with Link: [VAN/MTL] Dale Weise for Raphael Diaz

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Draft

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Jan 23, 2013
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I liked Diaz and preferred him over Bouillon and Murray this year. However, all three are likely off the team next year and I'm happy we got something (big, young, fast) for at least one of them. I don't think Diaz would have got us anymore and I don't think he was or would be making a difference on the team now. Let's see how Weise does, he might really surprise some people.
 

Runner77

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Diaz just didn't show lot of improvement since is concussion... Still I would of guess Diaz had a bit more potential value than than a fringe NHL 4th liner, I would of like to see MB get a extra 5th or 6th round pick from Vancouver or at least a conditional pick if he resigned... That being said Weise is probably fit perfectly on the 4th line.

We don't know that he didn't try to get more. This is probably the best he could do right now, trading to a team like Vancouver who just lost Bieksa, creating a need for a Diaz.

If MB didn't move now and VAN found a replacement elsewhere, no guarantee that someone would show interest in Diaz at the deadline. He went with the bird in the bush and it's all right, considering he did so using a low-level asset.
 

MathMan

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Jan 20, 2006
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I can't believe that the habs brass can''t grasp that inserting murray into the lineup has directly correlated with their slip in play and the standings. We were a much better team without him.

Has to be clear that it's not so much Murray himself than the contorsions the Habs do to try and make him work.

What I really don't get is why Therrien, who is clearly aware that Murray is a defensive liability based on the way he plays him (most of the time), doesn't take that next step and put him in the pressbox where he belongs.

Well, I'm afraid I do get it. He believes size is magic and having it in your team is vital even if it's on a guy who sucks.
 

Lafleurs Guy

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Jul 20, 2007
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Never once mentioned today how Murray clears the crease.
I did. And I did so because he's good at it and it's a skill we need.

Do you read my posts? Try watching him play instead of advocating something and then obviously ignoring him when he's playing well. He's not a bum, and he's playing just fine. You refuse to accept it because it would go against your constant whining about him.
Why would I complain about him if he was playing well? You seem to think I have some stake in his failure or success... that's not the case. I care about the team winning... that's it. Price, Subban, Max help us win. Bouillion and Murray don't. It's not personal. I just want us to win.

And what games are you watching btw? Did you watch that pathetic rush that resulted in the breakaway followed by the penalty shot? Did you watch as the guy gets consistently hemmed into his own zone? Yes, he can win battles and throw people down. Every now and then he will make a good defensive play. But overall he's a boat anchor.

How can you not see this? Are you just watching the good and ignoring the bad? Do you just give him a pass whenever we're hemmed in the zone. I don't doubt you're watching the games... but it's very clear that you aren't paying attention to what's going on when he's on the ice.

You say that "We've been saying Diaz should be in the lineup for weeks now"... Who is this revered "we"? Anyone that agrees with you on this suddenly become the board majority in your mind? There was no overwhelming support on here for Diaz ever..if anything the majority have disliked him from Day One.
The people you're attacking in this thread obviously.

And btw, you can include me in the group that was never a big fan of Diaz. Again, you are missing the point. Do I need to explain it to you again?

Nobody is upset that Diaz was dealt. It's that we decided we'd be better off with Murray that's the problem.
I never said in any of my posts that there weren't people on here that wanted Diaz in the lineup..there are going to always be people on here whining about the lineup no matter who it involves...
Yeah, I guess it was "whining" when we traded McD for Gomez too right? I remember people screaming that at me all the time there too.

Look, if the team makes a stupid decision (as they clearly did here) it's not whining to call them on it. What IS whining is when posters come here and WHINE about people calling the team on these stupid moves.

You think that my opinion's wrong... tell me why. Don't hide behind strawman crap like (you're going to whine and complain no matter what) - give me a reason why Douglas Murray (who as the stat heads have shown is statistically THE worst blueliner in the league) is a good fit for us right now. Explain why it is that we get outshot and outscored so dramatically when he's on the ice.
of course there were people supporting Diaz right now because he wasn't in the lineup..the longer he was out..the foggier are memories become and now suddenly he was the second coming of Streit.
Read all of the posts instead of somehow lumping my comments based on the Rafalski comparison. there have been several on here today contend he's a top four dman....which is incredulous.

What I said was that suddenly posters on here are making him out to be a top four blueliner..and that's a complete joke. there have been comparisons to Streit even.
If there were, then yeah those guys are out to lunch. I don't remember reading this but I didn't read all 700 posts.

What most have said is that he's a third pairing blueliner. Again, fine to trade him but makes no sense to choose Murray over him.
Not willing to give the new guy even a minute in the lineup first...whine and complain about the deal and let on you are better than the stupid Habs' management.....that's the common MO of your "we" that you speak about.

Common theme on here..and an utter farce actually.
Our management is not beyond criticism. If they make a stupid move they should be blasted for it. And being "better than Habs management" would not have been a tall order over the past decade or so. Gomez for McD? Samsonov, Briere, Kaberle... those are moves that are beyond stupid. And now we play Murray and bench Diaz?

Yes Grant, folks are going to blast the team for this. They deserve it.
I can't believe that the habs brass can''t grasp that inserting murray into the lineup has directly correlated with their slip in play and the standings. We were a much better team without him.
Thing is, he has to make a blatantly obvious screw up for some people to notice how bad he is. They don't pay attention to the fact that when he's on the ice we're hemmed into our own zone and can't get the puck.
 

djpass

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The future will tell us but I don't think Diaz will become anything more than an ordinary defenseman with a limited role. In the Western conference, when things will get tough as the season comes to a close, Diaz will often look like a deer frozen by headlights.

Let's not kid ourselves, the Habs top 4 are Subban, Markov, Gorges & Emelin.

That leaves only 2 spots left. Personally I prefer Beaulieu to Diaz in the same role as a #5 and as a 6th defenceman, it's better to have a guy that can play a physical game rather than be extremely soft like Diaz. Raphael was gonna be a UFA and we had no more room for him on the squad right now.

I guess a case could be made to wait after the Olympics before trading him in case he does good things there and raises his value. At the same time, there's also the risk of him getting injured and end up getting nothing...

Truth is....whether some like it or not, his value just wasn't higher than the kind of guy we got for him. This trade could possibly set up another one coming up...keep an eye on Colorado being Mtl's top dance partner at the trade deadline.
 

Ghetto Sangria

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Diaz just didn't show lot of improvement since is concussion... Still I would of guess Diaz had a bit more potential value than than a fringe NHL 4th liner, I would of like to see MB get a extra 5th or 6th round pick from Vancouver or at least a conditional pick if he resigned... That being said Weise is probably fit perfectly on the 4th line.

He got something for Diaz but I don't feel he maximize the return... RH PMD are a lot more hard to find than 4th line grinders... Kind of player that could be had on waiver...

You can not like the trade, but calling Weise a fringe NHLer when he has more points than Moen, Prust, Bourque in less games while playing a very similar grinding style at the age of 25 doesn't make sense to me.

Ryan White is more of a Fringe NHLer than Weise is.
 

MathMan

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Didn't he have the most success when he DID play ~ 20 min per game? Looking quickly over game by game stats, that seems to be the case.

And the Habs never did so well 5-on-5 this season than when Diaz and Gorges were handed tough defensive assignments.
 

pezcore

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Sometimes the sheer lack of understanding/knowledge frustrates me around here. You know he was a healthy scratch because of the surrounding ufa issue, and not his play right? You also realize that you will be completely unable to come up with 7 names that deserve to be above him in the depth chart, and that you pulled the "8th on the depth chart" out of your ass too, right?

"Beaulieu instead of Diaz" is not a relevant course of discussion at all. They play opposite sides, and one seemed poised to enter the PP conversation while the other one was doing just fine as part of the PK conversation. How were these directly competing assets?!

Answer: if, and only if, you have Therrien as a coach, because he obviously doesn't bother distinguishing left from right in anything he tries to do with this team. If Beaulieu is actually close to ready, it's Bouillon who should graciously bow aside, but no... not Therrien's main boy.

And Weiss "taking Parros' place"? What about all the other players we already have who are better than Parros, but can't actually perform his role either? A lot.



Undervaluing Diaz, and overvaluing Weiss by referring to him as a "roster player". He hasn't played an entire season in the same jersey... ever maybe? Might not have gotten bounced to the minors in '11/12, I can't remember.
[/QUOTE]

different opinions, dont have to agree, dont have to be a condescending arse either. Perhaps your experience on these boards make you a wiser and more experienced but your opinion, is as valuable as mine.

back to the topic at hand

the 8th was not pulled out of my ass...count with me....

1-Subban
2-Markov
3-Gorges
4-Emelin
5-Beaulieu
6-Murray
7-Bouillon
8-diaz
9-Drewiske (by default since he was injured all season)

Do i like Diaz more than bouillon, yes, but the coach does and he's got more influence on the starting lineup than me. Diaz had no value whatsoever and yes, his potential is probably higher than Weise, but what this team needs, Diaz cant provide.

So what were the options? Keep him a healthy scratch? I honestly dont see how getting a role player that has qualities that team lacks for a player that doesnt have a role with us anymore, is a bad thing. We all wished we couldve have gotten more for him. At one point you need to quit and get the best offer. We lost all those players for nothing in the Gainey/Gauthier era, wasnt that more frustrating? It doesnt address our biggest needs but its a step in the right direction no?
 

417

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...alot of people don't seem to get that it's not the fact that Diaz was traded that's got some of us upset; it's that he was traded for basically nothing to a team that desperately needed a puck-moving right-handed Dman right now...Bergevin missed an opportunity to either package Diaz with something else for a Top 6 upgrade or at least hold out for more from Gillis than just another 4th line plug...
I'd like to know what you think the Habs could of packaged WITH Diaz to get a top 6 upgrade or hold out for more?
 

void

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Jan 5, 2006
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Filosa on the trade: Diaz relieved to be wanted. Asked if Beaulieu took his place but said simply that Beaulieu is a real good player and deserved a chance. Weise on the other hand looked surprised, shocked.

Weise says he knows Prust, Moen and Daigneault.

I want to give Diaz a hug. :(
 

Fazkovsky

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Sep 4, 2013
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Let`s be honest here, Diaz could have fetched us atleast a third liner. I would have preferred Brad Richardson or a younger player that hasn't had a good chance. But Weise is still better then nothing.

But in the end, I think Weise is a step to the right direction. We are talking about how we don`t have production from our top players but what about our bottom line players? Moen has 1 goal this season. What I like about Weise is that if he can score 10+, we will win those close games vs rilvaries, it really does make a difference. What we did is upgrade our bottom lines which WAS NEEDED TOO. Weise has great speed , can score at times something Moen can't seem to be able to.
 

Mike Mike Caron

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Aug 29, 2010
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I liked Diaz and preferred him over Bouillon and Murray this year. However, all three are likely off the team next year and I'm happy we got something (big, young, fast) for at least one of them. I don't think Diaz would have got us anymore and I don't think he was or would be making a difference on the team now. Let's see how Weise does, he might really surprise some people.

Are you making sense? If so i'd like to inform you that we dont like your kind around these parts, sir.
 

uiCk

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Jan 20, 2009
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I want to give Diaz a hug. :(

given that Weise seemed surprised, i would assume he had no idea he was being traded. And further assume VAN had no idea he was going to be traded until MB asked for him. Bet you VAN people had some good laughs after those trade talks
 

Bill McNeal

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Jul 19, 2003
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Diaz is gone because Therrien didn't know what to do with him.

Which is bizarre, because he certainly had no issue playing him long and important minutes at the beginning of the season. He just progressively started playing him less and less, destroying any value he may have ever had, until he eventually was gone. Eller better watch his back...

Just seems like déjà vu. We've seen players in the past traded for cents on the dollar because they just didn't fit the coach's plans. What makes it worse is that the current coach is a doofus.
 

Nedved

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would've waited until deadline.

he could've fetched more, obviously management thought very little of rd.
 

Deadliest11

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Dec 10, 2013
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Why is Diaz worth more??? He is so soft can't move anyone from infront of the net and is going to demand 3mil at the end of the year.....
Tell me again why he is worth more because of an over rated 48 game sched last year....
 

417

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This is what I go on about. Conventional hockey labels have huge conceptual holes in them.

There is seriously no reason not to consider Diaz, given the way he has played the past two seasons a defensive defenseman who relies on positioning and shot blocking rather than being physically imposing. He doesn't do it the conventional way, well who cares if it gets results.

Does it make any kind of sense to call the guy you can play against reasonably good opposition and not get scored on much even if you don't score much yourself an offensive/puckmoving defenseman while calling the guy you shelter the crap out of and gets scored on constantly the defensive defenseman? At a certain point labels have to do business with what is actually happening on the ice rather than some platonic hockey ideal of what a body type and skillset stereotype you into.

This is what Diaz is. A guy that can consistently make safe, high-percentage plays that won't cause any disasters even if he has no flash to him. He's more like Gorges is on a good day than he's at all like Yannick Weber.

I don't disagree with him...but none of this really justifies him being a top 6 dman on the Habs.

I just don't see how the Habs defense, presently built, how you can mix in Diaz AND Beaulieu in this lineup

Subban/Gorges - Emelin-Markov - Diaz/Beaulieu

Hmm...

I just don't see Diaz as a fit on this team and i'm not convinced like everyone else is, that his value was all that high.

Now the Canucks are definitely getting the best player in the deal, and by logic, I guess the team that gets the 'best' player wins the deal...

But again, Diaz didn't have a future in this organization and at some point, getting anything for him is better than nothing.

This is kind of a Catch 22 situation for MB...and don't think other GM's don't know this too.

Some of you have done so many trade proposals involving Diaz that you think that means his value is something, it probably isn't close to being
 

uiCk

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Why is Diaz worth more??? He is so soft can't move anyone from infront of the net and is going to demand 3mil at the end of the year.....
Tell me again why he is worth more because of an over rated 48 game sched last year....

OH thanks for pointing out that only thing that makes a good D is crease clearing
 
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