Proposal: Value of Stocking up

[LeafingTheWay]

If this draft is anything like 2003, then getting as many draft picks as possible should be a priority at the trade deadline. Bergeron, Weber, Eriksson, Crawford, MacArthur were all picked after the 1st, just to name a few. If TOR doesn't look like they'll get in, what could these players return?
Looking for : 2015 between 2nd and 6th round picks
Available: Bodie, Orr, Franson, MacWilliam, Holzer, Riemer, Booth, Kontolia, Clarkson (25% taken back), Biggs, Ashton, 2015 7th, 2016 4th, 2016 5th, 2016 6th, 2016 7th.

Try to respond like:

Franson - 2nd
Riemer - 2nd ( to a playoff team with goalie injuries)
Etc.

Click to read more...

 

[egd27]

If Toronto doesn't look like they'll get in, they'll move more than the spare parts in your list. No offence.

 

[Atomos2]

Add Lupul, Phaneuf, Kadri...maybe JVR...and more, I doubt anyone other than Bernier, Rielly and Gardiner would be safe.

 

[Deebo]

I don't think they'll move JVR, Kessel or Phaneuf if they are out of the playoffs at the deadline.

 

[Diatomic]

Anyone 26 or above should be available at the deadline if were not a playoff team. Hopefully all the upcoming UFA's are traded and rotten core pieces like bozak, phaneuf, lupul etc. are available for the right price.

Keep the kids, dispose of the garbage.

 

[Community]

Kessel, Bernier, Rielly, JVR, Gardiner, Phaneuf, Kadri, Bozak, Lupul

These are the least likely to be shopped players in my opinion from least likely (Kessel) to most likely (Lupul). All other players are definitely available.

 

[hockeyfanz*]

If this draft is anything like 2003, then getting as many draft picks as possible should be a priority at the trade deadline. Bergeron, Weber, Eriksson, Crawford, MacArthur were all picked after the 1st, just to name a few. If TOR doesn't look like they'll get in, what could these players return?
Looking for : 2015 between 2nd and 6th round picks
Available: Bodie, Orr, Franson, MacWilliam, Holzer, Riemer, Booth, Kontolia, Clarkson (25% taken back), Biggs, Ashton, 2015 7th, 2016 4th, 2016 5th, 2016 6th, 2016 7th.

Try to respond like:

Franson - 2nd
Riemer - 2nd ( to a playoff team with goalie injuries)
Etc.

Thats a junk list. Other than Reimer and possibly Franson..I don't see anybody trading for any of those guys and not for anything near a 2nd rounder.

Also I agree with those who believe that when the time comes..the Leafs will be big sellers. Some big names will be sent packing. As they should IMO.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

If this draft is anything like 2003, then getting as many draft picks as possible should be a priority at the trade deadline. Bergeron, Weber, Eriksson, Crawford, MacArthur were all picked after the 1st, just to name a few. If TOR doesn't look like they'll get in, what could these players return?
Looking for : 2015 between 2nd and 6th round picks
Available: Bodie, Orr, Franson, MacWilliam, Holzer, Riemer, Booth, Kontolia, Clarkson (25% taken back), Biggs, Ashton, 2015 7th, 2016 4th, 2016 5th, 2016 6th, 2016 7th.

Try to respond like:

Franson - 2nd
Riemer - 2nd ( to a playoff team with goalie injuries)
Etc.

We don't have a 2015 7th round pick (if the D'Amigo condition- whatever it is- is converted), and all of these guys won't be traded for picks (maybe for prospects though) other than Reimer, Franson and maybe Ashton. I like the attitude of stacking up, but there are other ways to do so. Franson, Reimer and Lupul would get us the most. Ashton could get us a little bit. The others would be minimal returns or not traded at all. This is likely their highest values (if traded to teams that would have some interest in them):

Bodie/Booth/Kontiola: Not going to be traded unless we suck, then maybe at deadline for picks.
McLaren/Orr: Conditional 6th/7th.
Franson/Reimer: Deal similar to Holland's, if not more.
MacWilliam/Holzer: Most likely not traded for picks, rather packaged with a prospect for a player upgrade (if traded Franson) or used as 7th defenseman.
Lupul: Likely requires a deal similar to Versteeg's (1st and 3rd) if a prospect is added.
Clarkson: Not going to be traded.
Ashton: Deal similar to Colborne if traded.
Picks: Not going to happen likely.
Prospects such as Biggs: Some may be able to acquire some late picks if a team really likes them, but more likely to be used in packages or prospect swaps and deals of that like rather than for picks straight up.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Anyone 26 or above should be available at the deadline if were not a playoff team. Hopefully all the upcoming UFA's are traded and rotten core pieces like bozak, phaneuf, lupul etc. are available for the right price.

Keep the kids, dispose of the garbage.

Phaneuf and Lupul are the most valuable guys we may trade if we are comfortable with Gardiner, Rielly, Percy and/or Finn for Phaneuf and Holland, Leivo, etc. for Lupul. Bozak is on a good deal with good chemistry with Kessel. Maybe in a few years time we will trade him in favour of Kadri/Nylander, but not now. He doesn't get enough praise, and wouldn't get a good enough trade to make up for what we lose.

 

[share]

Why is it that you people cannot grasp that every player on the Leafs other than the couple core players are ready to be traded at any minute of any day ? Dave Nonis is on the phone every day with some of other teams general managers and if there is an acceptable offer for any Leaf, that player is gone..There has to be two to tangle and right now Nonis is the only one prepared to tangle for what he values his players. If some other team wants to include the Leaf's garbage to fill in their roster, they will talk to Nonis on their terms..That's the way it is..

 

[Bleed Blue and White]

We don't have a 2015 7th round pick (if the D'Amigo condition- whatever it is- is converted), and all of these guys won't be traded for picks (maybe for prospects though) other than Reimer, Franson and maybe Ashton. I like the attitude of stacking up, but there are other ways to do so. Franson, Reimer and Lupul would get us the most. Ashton could get us a little bit. The others would be minimal returns or not traded at all. This is likely their highest values (if traded to teams that would have some interest in them):

Bodie/Booth/Kontiola: Not going to be traded unless we suck, then maybe at deadline for picks.
McLaren/Orr: Conditional 6th/7th.
Franson/Reimer: Deal similar to Holland's, if not more.
MacWilliam/Holzer: Most likely not traded for picks, rather packaged with a prospect for a player upgrade (if traded Franson) or used as 7th defenseman.
Lupul: Likely requires a deal similar to Versteeg's (1st and 3rd) if a prospect is added.
Clarkson: Not going to be traded.
Ashton: Deal similar to Colborne if traded.
Picks: Not going to happen likely.
Prospects such as Biggs: Some may be able to acquire some late picks if a team really likes them, but more likely to be used in packages or prospect swaps and deals of that like rather than for picks straight up.

I believe we will have a 7th since the condition was they either sign D'Amigo or they get the 7th. Since they signed him the other day, we keep the pick.

 

[ConnorTO]

2003

because few know the future

 

[SeaOfBlue]

I believe we will have a 7th since the condition was they either sign D'Amigo or they get the 7th. Since they signed him the other day, we keep the pick.

Is that true? Are you entirely sure? I haven't seen anything to confirm that, but if it's true then that's good, because that's a pick in a good draft that we have. 6 picks in a good draft is a good start, but if we can get a 2nd back and maybe a couple others in the mid-late rounds we'd be able to restock our pool with good players. I'd even be willing to sell some of our prospects to do so.

Nonis has got to stop doing trades where he trades away a bunch of picks and start doing them like the Gleason-Liles trade where he trades prospects we don't need instead. Gleason was overpriced, but he was still a good pickup IMO for a player who was stuck in the AHL on a high cap by only having to give up our 2nd worst prospect. Still resulted in us in a cap buyout for the next 4 years but it's still a better situation than before.

 

[Bleed Blue and White]

Is that true? Are you entirely sure? I haven't seen anything to confirm that, but if it's true then that's good, because that's a pick in a good draft that we have. 6 picks in a good draft is a good start, but if we can get a 2nd back and maybe a couple others in the mid-late rounds we'd be able to restock our pool with good players. I'd even be willing to sell some of our prospects to do so.

Nonis has got to stop doing trades where he trades away a bunch of picks and start doing them like the Gleason-Liles trade where he trades prospects we don't need instead. Gleason was overpriced, but he was still a good pickup IMO for a player who was stuck in the AHL on a high cap by only having to give up our 2nd worst prospect. Still resulted in us in a cap buyout for the next 4 years but it's still a better situation than before.

I completely agree with you. As for whether I'm sure, James Mirtle tweeted it out a few weeks ago. He's pretty reliable, the link to his tweet is below if you're curious.

https://twitter.com/mirtle/status/486515419021574144

 

[Stephen]

Not for sale:

Kessel, JVR, Rielly, Gardiner, Nylander, Bernier

Available for picks, other assets:

Everybody.

 

[Daisy Jane]

........
what?! that is the STUPIDEST condition on earth. So if they trade him they get a pick?

 

[-DeMo-]

I believe we will have a 7th since the condition was they either sign D'Amigo or they get the 7th. Since they signed him the other day, we keep the pick.

being an RFA I highly doubt that was the condition

 

[SeaOfBlue]

I completely agree with you. As for whether I'm sure, James Mirtle tweeted it out a few weeks ago. He's pretty reliable, the link to his tweet is below if you're curious.

https://twitter.com/mirtle/status/486515419021574144

Thank you, makes some sense.

 

[613Leafer]

Getting one really solid draft under our belts, with 2-3 2nd rounders and an extra 1st rounder, could really pay off a ton down the line.

There are a bunch of teams who drafted some of their top top players with 2nd rounders, even with their second or third 2nd rounder of that particular draft to get the homerun selection.

The draft is largely a crapshoot. Teams with good draft records have tons of "misses/busts", just like us. One of the big differences is that they at some point stockpiled picks for several years on end, increasing the odds of hitting a homerun.

Grabovski, Kulemin, MacArthur, etc all out the door for nothing. Bolland/Liles we traded picks for, and THEN lost them for nothing (even ended up with a buyout against our cap for four years because of Liles (Gleason)). Actually even Grabovski we traded a pick for, even though we had him for longer, we still ultimately accomplished nothing with him and then lost him for nothing. We need to do a better job at getting value for assets before they leave, and not trading picks for guys who ultimately contribute absolutely nothing here.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Getting one really solid draft under our belts, with 2-3 2nd rounders and an extra 1st rounder, could really pay off a ton down the line.

There are a bunch of teams who drafted some of their top top players with 2nd rounders, even with their second or third 2nd rounder of that particular draft to get the homerun selection.

The draft is largely a crapshoot. Teams with good draft records have tons of "misses/busts", just like us. One of the big differences is that they at some point stockpiled picks for several years on end, increasing the odds of hitting a homerun.

Grabovski, Kulemin, MacArthur, etc all out the door for nothing. Bolland/Liles we traded picks for, and THEN lost them for nothing (even ended up with a buyout against our cap for four years because of Liles (Gleason)). Actually even Grabovski we traded a pick for, even though we had him for longer, we still ultimately accomplished nothing with him and then lost him for nothing. We need to do a better job at getting value for assets before they leave, and not trading picks for guys who ultimately contribute absolutely nothing here.

This is very insightful. Especially last year, we were clearly not going to make the playoffs, but Nonis just couldn't see it. We could have had 1sts, 2nds, etc. out of the wazoo with Raymond, Kulemin, etc. But he couldn't see that WE HAD A TERRIBLE TEAM WITH A GREAT GOALIE. Once the goalie went down, Reimer was left out to dry just like Bernier but he could rise to Bernier's amazing season. There's nothing wrong with that, because Bernier exceeded expectations 10 fold, and Reimer still had a great season considering, but it predictably led to us losing a bunch of games. I still have faith in Nonis, especially with Shanahan around to keep him in check, because he has done a whole lot better than Burke, but he's got to step it up and do a 180 with this draft as he has before. Make great deals to reacquire picks rather than poor deals to lose picks. We have great depth to keep us competitive; we have great prospects to either step up or trade in deals to acquire cheaper depth; go and get it done throughout the season or even before the season starts. I don't want to lose Franson for nothing just like all of those other guys. He's probably the most valuable piece we've had in a while because he's a unique player; if we let him go for nothing, Nonis better be praying for his job because Shanahan and Dubas should just take over.

 

[The Great Gazoo]

Why is it that you people cannot grasp that every player on the Leafs other than the couple core players are ready to be traded at any minute of any day ? Dave Nonis is on the phone every day with some of other teams general managers and if there is an acceptable offer for any Leaf, that player is gone..There has to be two to tangle and right now Nonis is the only one prepared to tangle for what he values his players. If some other team wants to include the Leaf's garbage to fill in their roster, they will talk to Nonis on their terms..That's the way it is..

Gee, sure glad you're hear to let us know how it is. Or, I mean, it's possible the Leafs aren't a team full of garbage nobody wants, and if time does come to sell, there will be tons of interest with good assets coming the other way.

Ya, I think that's how it is.

 

[Diatomic]

Phaneuf and Lupul are the most valuable guys we may trade if we are comfortable with Gardiner, Rielly, Percy and/or Finn for Phaneuf and Holland, Leivo, etc. for Lupul. Bozak is on a good deal with good chemistry with Kessel. Maybe in a few years time we will trade him in favour of Kadri/Nylander, but not now. He doesn't get enough praise, and wouldn't get a good enough trade to make up for what we lose.

I like Bozak, I just don't like the idea of Kessel spending his Prime years with a #3C then when we finally get an upgrade Kessel isn't a PPG winger anymore and overweight from all the cookies

 

[The Great Gazoo]

I wonder how many of the people who keep saying Phil is fat (he's not, but whatever) are themselves little porkers who spend all day on their ***** eating cookies and ice cream? The irony, it is delicious.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

I like Bozak, I just don't like the idea of Kessel spending his Prime years with a #3C then when we finally get an upgrade Kessel isn't a PPG winger anymore and overweight from all the cookies

Bozak isn't a 3C. At worst he's a good 2C. Maybe he isn't the best 1C in the league, but he's not the worst and he works well with Kessel and JVR. I don't know if another guy would have the chemistry and do as well. If Bozak played the full season, he would have had 69 points. That's more than JVR. That would put him with guys like Krejci, Spezza, etc. and over guys like Bergeron, E. Staal, Stastny, etc. I know those guys would probably do a whole lot better if they had JVR and Kessel on their wings, but still. Let's give it another year, because our top line is good enough to win a cup. It's everything else we really need to worry about.

 

[The Great Gazoo]

Bozak has improved every year he's been in the NHL. I don't expect that to change this season.