Valimaki vs Liljegren vs Foote vs Brannstrom draft +1 review

[Elias Pettersson]

Pretty sure it's going to be Heiskanen

Small, chance to be Makar as well

 

[Balthazar]

Small, chance to be Makar as well

Pretty decent chance.

 

[AuraSphere]

Every outlet has Liljegren dropping. He struggled in the AHL and couldn't produce at even strength all season.

He is below all of them at this point.

How have you not been banned for trolling yet?

Your reputation on these forums is very well known..

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

Same as at the draft -- no consensus, all good prospects that I'd love to have on my team.

Your preference at this point might just depend on what kind of player your team needs. Just not a lot of obvious separation from any of them.

 

[67Cup]

Agreed with Doug Prishpreed. All have performed well and it is too early to predict with any confidence which ones will do best in the NHL. Probably the real distinction among them at this point for many of us might be which one was drafted by “my” team. You can probably make a reasonable argument for any of them.

But the debate is or can be enjoyable anyways, as long as we don’t take it too seriously, so I’ll argue for the prospect for my Leafs. The ultimate goal is to play in the NHL and Liljegren played regularly in the league closest to the NHL. Very few defenders have done that in their draft plus one year. When Leaf fans point out that Liljegren had the highest scoring rate of anyone who has done so, the inevitable and also correct response has to do with small sample size. But the other side of the small sample size coin is that what Liljegren has done is a rare and, I would suggest, noteworthy accomplishment.

Moreover, Liljegren didn’t just take the ice in the AHL, he played for the regular season and Calder Cup champions, who had by far the best defensive record in the league. The Marlies had a very deep defense corps, with five blue liners who have at least a shot an NHL job this year. Nevertheless, in game seven of the finals Liljegren was on the ice. That’s meaningful to me.

I could go on about positive things I saw Liljegren do this season which show he is maturing as a prospect but this post is already starting to approach the length of an essay. I still don’t know which of the four named prospect will turn out best, but I am certainly happy that my team has Liljegren.

 

[RoadWarrior]

Every outlet has Liljegren dropping. He struggled in the AHL and couldn't produce at even strength all season.

He is below all of them at this point.

I hope this is sarcastic.

I’d love for every d prospect to “struggle” the way Liljegren did playing tough minutes for the AHL champions....with the best defensive record in the league.

 

[RoadWarrior]

Idk why people keep talking like Liljegren is some offensive stud. Button was right when he said he's more of a two-way guy that is solid defensively and can move the puck well. He's not going to be a big time point scorer but that label has followed him around.

Liljegren is capable of becoming a big time PP quarterback. The tools are there including a big shot and elite footwork.

 

[Thetruthteller]

I live in Victoria and have watched both Foote and Valimaki many times. Valimaki played against the rockets in the playoffs and completely outplayed Foote, like it wasn’t even close. Not too sure if any other poster watched that series in this thread. Valimaki was injured during the WJC and missed almost a month after the tournemnt. That is why Foote was chosen ahead of him on the all star team. For those who watch the WHL they would know Valimaki is by far the better player. To the poster who said Valimaki is a bad skater? I actually spit out the pirate booty I was eating. What a laughable take. Valimaki will be the best out of this draft, very few weaknesses.

 

[Thetruthteller]

Valimaki wasnt good during the world Juniors.

He was the weakest link of Finlands top 4.
Juolevi and Joker outplayed Heiskanen and Maki quite a lot early on to take over the top pairing duties and 1st unit PP.

He was injured during the WJC and missed almost a month after the tournament. Would be very naive to use that as a measuring tool for him. Go look at how he outplayed Foote in the playoffs, head to head. Valimaki dominated the Rockets and Foote in a sweep.

 

[ijuka]

Liljegren is capable of becoming a big time PP quarterback. The tools are there including a big shot and elite footwork.

"Big shot"... with which he scored 1 goal in 64 games in AHL. And that's a loose definition of "elite" there.

At this point in time, the best argument for Liljegren > Välimäki seems to be "He was on a good team" which... isn't a great argument. Välimäki to this point has been the significantly more complete defenseman.

 

[RoadWarrior]

"Big shot"... with which he scored 1 goal in 64 games in AHL. And that's a loose definition of "elite" there.

At this point in time, the best argument for Liljegren > Välimäki seems to be "He was on a good team" which... isn't a great argument. Välimäki to this point has been the significantly more complete defenseman.

It's not just that Liljegren was on a good team it's that the quality of competition he was facing was substantially greater. He needs to work on his accuracy but yes he has a big shot from the point and Liljegren by any definition is an elite skater. What was most impressive was his dramatic improvement in his defensive coverage and neutral zone play.

There's no way Valimaki would have been playing 15+ minutes in the calder cup finals against tough competition.

 

[Thetruthteller]

It's not just that Liljegren was on a good team it's that the quality of competition he was facing was substantially greater. He needs to work on his accuracy but yes he has a big shot from the point and Liljegren by any definition is an elite skater. What was most impressive was his dramatic improvement in his defensive coverage and neutral zone play.

There's no way Valimaki would have been playing 15+ minutes in the calder cup finals against tough competition.

I bet you he would’ve been on stocktons top 4 without a doubt. He could even make a push for a spot on the flames this season.

 

[RoadWarrior]

I bet you he would’ve been on stocktons top 4 without a doubt. He could even make a push for a spot on the flames this season.

Valimaki is well rounded but can't skate with Liljegren. That's the difference. If the kid didn't get mono he would've been a top 10 pick.

 

[Morbo]

I rate Brannstrom at the top of this group

 

[LilySmoov]

Every outlet has Liljegren dropping. He struggled in the AHL and couldn't produce at even strength all season.

He is below all of them at this point.

Which outlets?

Are we still waiting for Haatley to substantiate his nonsense, or have we collectively given up?

 

[67Cup]

Nothing against Valimaki at all. I can remember saying to myself when pick 16 came up in the 2017 draft, “Great! The Leafs can get one of Valimaki or Liljegren.” I would have been happy either way it worked out. And to be fair, there is no proof Valimaki (or Foote, or Brannstrom) could not have taken a regular shift in the Calder Cup finals. What you can say, however, is that Liljegren actually did it.

I remember seeing Liljegren make a particular play. He gained possession in the attacking zone just inside the blue line by the right boards. The forward came out hard to pressure him and using deft footwork Liljegren slid to his left towards the middle of the ice along the line. Was it “elite” footwork? I don’t know, but it was good enough to avoid a mature player at the level immediately below the NHL. His footwork was quick and graceful and above all it worked. It was what I would have expected from an NHL caliber defenseman. But AHL players keep at it and another defender also came at Liljegren. Liljegren simply dumped the puck safely into the corner for a Marlie winger to chase.

No stats to register, nothing exciting to see, especially if you’re the kind of fan who only looks at goals and assists. But I was delighted to see the play and I bet he got a pat on the back when he got to the bench. Liljegren was still available at pick 17 despite his skill set largely because there were questions about his hockey IQ. And dumping the puck into the corner was the right play, especially for a right hand shot under those circumstances. Earlier in his career Liljegren might have used his abundant skills and tried to force a shot through. If blocked, however, there would probably have been a breakaway the other way. The simple play was the right play. The point of this little story is that this was not a one off occurrence. The Marlies staff was not expecting or demanding big time point production this season; they were looking for smart hockey from Liljegren, and they got it regularly and increasingly.

Does this mean Liljegren will be a better NHLer than the other prospects? No way of knowing right now. But it does reinforce the pleasure I felt when Liljegren slipped to 17 and the Leafs took him.

And there is one more thing to say. In junior the forward would probably have been a step slower and there likely would have been room to get the shot off. Maybe a junior goalie would have missed the shot or given up a rebound someone would have banged into the net. Goal! Assist! Points! But not a better play, all things considered.

 

[Martin Skoula]

Nothing against Valimaki at all. I can remember saying to myself when pick 16 came up in the 2017 draft, “Great! The Leafs can get one of Valimaki or Liljegren.” I would have been happy either way it worked out. And to be fair, there is no proof Valimaki (or Foote, or Brannstrom) could not have taken a regular shift in the Calder Cup finals. What you can say, however, is that Liljegren actually did it.

I remember seeing Liljegren make a particular play. He gained possession in the attacking zone just inside the blue line by the right boards. The forward came out hard to pressure him and using deft footwork Liljegren slid to his left towards the middle of the ice along the line. Was it “elite” footwork? I don’t know, but it was good enough to avoid a mature player at the level immediately below the NHL. His footwork was quick and graceful and above all it worked. It was what I would have expected from an NHL caliber defenseman. But AHL players keep at it and another defender also came at Liljegren. Liljegren simply dumped the puck safely into the corner for a Marlie winger to chase.

No stats to register, nothing exciting to see, especially if you’re the kind of fan who only looks at goals and assists. But I was delighted to see the play and I bet he got a pat on the back when he got to the bench. Liljegren was still available at pick 17 despite his skill set largely because there were questions about his hockey IQ. And dumping the puck into the corner was the right play, especially for a right hand shot under those circumstances. Earlier in his career Liljegren might have used his abundant skills and tried to force a shot through. If blocked, however, there would probably have been a breakaway the other way. The simple play was the right play. The point of this little story is that this was not a one off occurrence. The Marlies staff was not expecting or demanding big time point production this season; they were looking for smart hockey from Liljegren, and they got it regularly and increasingly.

Does this mean Liljegren will be a better NHLer than the other prospects? No way of knowing right now. But it does reinforce the pleasure I felt when Liljegren slipped to 17 and the Leafs took him.

And there is one more thing to say. In junior the forward would probably have been a step slower and there likely would have been room to get the shot off. Maybe a junior goalie would have missed the shot or given up a rebound someone would have banged into the net. Goal! Assist! Points! But not a better play, all things considered.

I think it finally got through to him that he'll be able to go for more flashy rushes over the course of a year if he doesn't choose to do it so often and gets played in more minutes as a result. Same way Kadri turned into a 2-way guy when it finally got through to him that stripping pucks on the backcheck sets him up for more odd man rushes and more minutes.

 

[Volica]

Yeah. Debating if one guy could do something the other couldn't do is a moot point to be honest.
We'll simply never know.

We know at the WJC Valmaki had a debatably better tournament (while injured) than Liljegren at the same stage; with Liljegren on the much stronger Swedish team. Tournaments are terrible at projecting though.

Dunno. Let's see come October. There's a chance Valimaki makes the Flames, which would be cool. He'll be on Stockton's top pair likely sooner rather than later our team throws kids to wolves in the AHL.

 

[2legit2quit]

I'd rank them like this:

1. Foote - he may not be the best, or not even average fantasy league defenseman, and I think some of underrating is fantasy league goggles. I think out of the list he is most likely to make it in the NHL in top 4 role. Was not sold on him at the draft, but I am warming up.
2. Liljegren - bit of a mess, but what a freaking toolbox! A risky pick for sure but the payoff can be something along the lines of PK Subban (who was also hot mess at this age).
3. Brannstrom - do not really have any rational issues with him other than the size. But I have a gut feeling he has peaked.
4. Valimaki - do not like his skating or decision making.

Please elaborate on what "hot mess'' means.

 

[2legit2quit]

Liljegren's 2WAY Play is insane!

Please remind yourself that Liljegren, as a 18-19 year old. Played in the AHL. Was arguably the Marlies' 2nd best defensemen (when you factor in 2-way play). And won the FRICKING CALDER CUP!

Tier 1: Liljegren
Tier 2: Valimaki, Foote, Brannstroom.

 

[Captain Clutch]

Its always somewhat of a crapshoot trying to figure out whose game will translate to the NHL. In terms of NHL translatable tools, I would rank them this way:

Liljegren
Valimaki
Brannstrom
Foote

I think they will all play meaningful games in the NHL. My hunch is that Valimaki will be the best pro, he's not the puck mover that Liljegren or Brannstrom are but his defensive game is better and his size and skating ability are both quite good. I was not as impressed with Foote but I still see him having a very respectable career as a 2nd pairing shutdown guy. They are all nice prospects

 

[AuraSphere]

Liljegren's 2WAY Play is insane!

Please remind yourself that Liljegren, as a 18-19 year old. Played in the AHL. Was arguably the Marlies' 2nd best defensemen (when you factor in 2-way play). And won the FRICKING CALDER CUP!

Tier 1: Liljegren
Tier 2: Valimaki, Foote, Brannstroom.

You couldn't be more wrong, and this is from someone who watched a lot of marlies games. People really need to chill on the Liljegren winning the calder cup hype. IMO, they would have won it without him, he didn't really have a significant impact. He played sheltered minutes most of the season, but in those minutes, I'll agree he shows great glimpses of his potential. He's raw, and with the right confidence I'm sure he can put it together. The most relied upon D-men that whole calder run were Holl, Dermott, Marincin, Rosen.

There's no doubt in my mind that someone like Brannstrom or Valimaki could have done the same. Regardless, I am also very high on Liljegren, don't have me wrong.

My rankings personally:
Brannstrom
Liljegren
Valimaki
Foote

 

[Thetruthteller]

Liljegren's 2WAY Play is insane!

Please remind yourself that Liljegren, as a 18-19 year old. Played in the AHL. Was arguably the Marlies' 2nd best defensemen (when you factor in 2-way play). And won the FRICKING CALDER CUP!

Tier 1: Liljegren
Tier 2: Valimaki, Foote, Brannstroom.

Kylington had 5 less points in the AHL at the same age, Leafs fans are overating his ability to play in the AHL. Not surprising. Valimaki and Foote both could’ve been in the AHL this past year

 

[HC7]

Kylington had 5 less points in the AHL at the same age, Leafs fans are overating his ability to play in the AHL. Not surprising. Valimaki and Foote both could’ve been in the AHL this past year

Kylington was also a major defensive liability.

Foote showed he didn't belong in the playoffs where Liljegren outplayed him by a country mile.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

Liljegren's 2WAY Play is insane!

Please remind yourself that Liljegren, as a 18-19 year old. Played in the AHL. Was arguably the Marlies' 2nd best defensemen (when you factor in 2-way play). And won the FRICKING CALDER CUP!

Tier 1: Liljegren
Tier 2: Valimaki, Foote, Brannstroom.

Let’s not get carried away. Liljegren scored 1 goal in 44 AHL games. That’s hardly insane.
He’s got some great tools but as others have said he was not the 2nd best defenseman on the Marlies.
And an individual player doesn’t win the Calder Cup. A solid rookie season but certainly not in a separate tier from the others.