Confirmed with Link: Vaclav Burda chief Euro scout leaves for Oilers

[HavlatMach9]

But omitting a portion of guys because we don't invest in the areas they play in is foolish.

i think omitting geographical areas is better not investing in more areas sufficiently

 

[HSF]

Lehner and Dahlen are still question marks

Silfverberg and Karlsson are the only two real swedes who made it and possible Zibby though i think most expected more from him.


Rundblad, Sorensen, Petersson a some other euros were guys who all kinda became nothing

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

It would be great to start to to look and scout:

Liiga
Extraliga
KHL
MHL
Swiss A

Along with the leagues in Sweden. There is talent to be found in all these leagues, especially the more pro ready older guys who have been passed over, ala Viktor Arvidsson/Nikita Zietzev.

Along with this, we should be making trips to France/Slovakia/Denmark, as there are kids coming out of these less scouted leagues who are worthy of sending a scout.

Would have loved to grab Alexandre Tessier had he been available with our pick at 47, but Columbus were able to grab him at 45. No chance the Sens even had this guy ranked, we likely never saw him play once seeing he was playing with Grenoble out of France.

Obviously that's a "perfect world scenario", and our drafting has been phenomenal. But omitting a portion of guys because we don't invest in the areas they play in is foolish.

Does Mikko Ruutu not scout the Finnish leagues?

 

[Micklebot]

i think omitting geographical areas is better not investing in more areas sufficiently

What's the incremental cost of scouting an additional league? Do we have to go "all in" or can we dip our toes in the region by having a guy see players of interest based on centralized scouting service ranks such as ISS or central scouting?

How would we identify players of interest from outside our scouting norms?

Most important to me, how do we avoid passing on talent based (presumably) purely on the league they play in, particularly within the 1st round? To me, it's fundamentally flawed that we may have passed on guys like Tarasenko, and Kostin simply because of their passports, and leagues they developed in, however, in the case of Russian prospects, it's unclear if this is a scouting budget issue, or something more dubious.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

From 2015 ; Guessing these scouts had a voice/hand in the picks

HERE ARE THE PICKS:

ROUND 1

No. 18 Thomas Chabot, D
Saint John, QMJHL

Age: 18 Ht: 6-foot-2 Wt: 180 lbs

2014-15: 66 GP 12-29-42 Pts 62 Pims

ASSISTANT GM PIERRE DORION SAYS: "He's an excellent skater, a very good puck mover and I think the way the game is headed with more transitional puck-moving defencemen, Thomas fits that bill. He makes good, smart passes, defends well with his stick and uses his feet to defend. To us, he's a guy that's going to be a top-four defenceman in the future."

No. 21 Colin White, C
U.S. National Development Team

Age: 18 Ht: 6-foot Wt: 183 lbs

2014-15: 45 GP 16-26-42 Pts 28 Pims

DORION SAYS: "Colin White is a two-way centreman, outstanding skater, very good skills. He's always on the puck. He competes. The fact he had mono slowed him down at the start of the season but as it went on we saw he was a two-way guy with some offensive skills. He's a high character player."

ROUND 2

No. 36 Gabriel Gagne, RW
Victoriaville, QMJHL

Age: 18 Ht: 6-foot-5 Wt: 186 lbs

2014-15: 67 GP 35-24-59 Pts 39 Pims

SCOUT DON BOYD SAYS: "Big, strong power forward with great size and mobility to score."

No. 48 Filip Chlapik, C
Charlottetown, QMJHL

Age: 18 Ht: 6-foot-1 Wt: 196 lbs

2014-15: 64 GP 33-42-75 42 Pims

SCOUT TRENT MANN SAYS: "Skilled centreman with great vision, a creative offensive player."

ROUND 4

No. 107 Christian Wolanin, D
Muskegon, USHL

Age: 20 Ht: 6-foot-2 Wt: 185 lbs

2014-15: 32 GP 5-16-21 Pts 44 Pims

SCOUT BOB JANECYK SAYS: "He had a breakout year, we've followed him the last three years. He's an offensive defenceman who can skate the puck and shoot the puck. He's Craig Wolanin's son so he's got good bloodlines."

No. 109 Filip Ahl, LW
HV Jr., Sweden

Age: 18 Ht: 6-foot-3 Wt: 211 lbs

2014-15: 34 GP 20-22-42 Pts 53 PIMs

SCOUT VACLAV BURDA SAYS: "Skill, big body and he's strong on the puck. He can shoot it. He scored 20 goals in the junior league and that's pretty good. His dad is a former national team goalie. There's a hockey background in his case."

ROUND 5

No. 139 Christian Jaros, D
Lulea Jr, Sweden

Age: 19 Ht: 6-foot-3 Wt: 201 lbs

2014-15: 23 GP 4-8-12 74 Pims

SCOUT MIKKO RUUTU SAYS: "He's a competitive big guy. He's got his limits and he's going to figure that out. If he learns his limits, then he might become a player. We just took a chance on him."

ROUND 7

No. 199 Joel Daccord, G
Cushing Academy, U.S. high school

Age: 18 Ht: 6-foot-2 Wt: 197 lbs

2014-15: 32 GP 2.58 GAA .923

SCOUT LEWIS MONGELLUZZO SAYS: "He works at his game. He's gotten a little better. He works really hard. Anything that happens won't be for lack of effort if it falls short. He's going to go to Arizona State. He's going to see lots of pucks. He'll really do the best he can. The work ethic he has will make a difference."

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

closer-look-vaclav-burda

 

[BondraTime]

Does Mikko Ruutu not scout the Finnish leagues?

I'm sure he "scouts" it, but one Finn drafted in 12 years, with so many good Finns coming, tells me we should look a bit more.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

I'm sure he "scouts" it, but one Finn drafted in 12 years, with so many good Finns coming, tells me we should look a bit more.

Yah no question ,. One guy can't be everywhere.. Scouting is an investment.

 

[Micklebot]

closer-look-vaclav-burda

Interesting that they seem to imply Burda had a large role in prospects we assume are Forsberg guys (Karlsson, Sorensen, Silf and Lehner)

They also imply he was involved in Pyatt (which we assume was primarily Boucher and Crawford's doing)

 

[BonkTastic]

Interesting that they seem to imply Burda had a large role in prospects we assume are Forsberg guys (Karlsson, Sorensen, Silf and Lehner)

They also imply he was involved in Pyatt (which we assume was primarily Boucher and Crawford's doing)

It's a fan blog. The author is simply guessing. "Sens drafted Karlsson, Karlsson is European, Burma scouts Europe, therefore Karlsson is a Burda pick".

The author can imply all he wants, but it doesn't make it true. Throughout the article, he prefaces everything with phrases like "It's likely that..." or "It's fair to assume that..." He's making educated guesses, and has no fact to back anything up.

It's an opinion piece by a writer who is making a hypothesis without providing any evidence in order to play to his audience. Nothing more.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

It's a fan blog. The author is simply guessing. "Sens drafted Karlsson, Karlsson is European, Burma scouts Europe, therefore Karlsson is a Burda pick".

The author can imply all he wants, but it doesn't make it true. Throughout the article, he prefaces everything with phrases like "It's likely that..." or "It's fair to assume that..." He's making educated guesses, and has no fact to back anything up.

It's an opinion piece by a writer who is making a hypothesis without providing any evidence in order to play to his audience. Nothing more.

This.

Its written like he was responsible for all the Euro draft picks and signings with no context other than our draft & signing chronology.

 

[slamigo]

I'm actually thinking that scouting is overrated. Nobody is a surprise player. On every team throughout the leagues, folks know who the good players are and it's not like they're playing in some underground unknown league.

IMHO the focus should be on player development. The difference in how these players pan out after being drafted isn't determined by how they played as a 16-18 year old. It's determined by how they developed once the game became serious. A lot of these kids are extremely comparable. Very few hidden gems. It's all about development.

 

[JungleBeat]

So Don Boyd may have behind that disgusting Gagne pick.

 

[HavlatMach9]

it's unclear if this is a scouting budget issue, or something more dubious.

at least when this philosophy began, i think it was really as simple as not wanting to use resources on players that might want to remain overseas. Bryan Murray was a big enough GM that this should have been the only reason why we didn't go Russian.

 

[ChelFan31]

What's the incremental cost of scouting an additional league? Do we have to go "all in" or can we dip our toes in the region by having a guy see players of interest based on centralized scouting service ranks such as ISS or central scouting?

How would we identify players of interest from outside our scouting norms?

Most important to me, how do we avoid passing on talent based (presumably) purely on the league they play in, particularly within the 1st round? To me, it's fundamentally flawed that we may have passed on guys like Tarasenko, and Kostin simply because of their passports, and leagues they developed in, however, in the case of Russian prospects, it's unclear if this is a scouting budget issue, or something more dubious.

These are the types of questions that TSN 1200 & the rest of the Soft Ottawa media should pose to Sens management. Enough with the kids glove approach

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

I'm actually thinking that scouting is overrated. Nobody is a surprise player. On every team throughout the leagues, folks know who the good players are and it's not like they're playing in some underground unknown league.

IMHO the focus should be on player development. The difference in how these players pan out after being drafted isn't determined by how they played as a 16-18 year old. It's determined by how they developed once the game became serious. A lot of these kids are extremely comparable. Very few hidden gems. It's all about development.

You need both.

You need to pick kids who have the tools to work with, and you have to have strong people in the organization to help them develop those tools.

 

[Ice-Tray]

These are the types of questions that TSN 1200 & the rest of the Soft Ottawa media should pose to Sens management. Enough with the kids glove approach

Given that scouting/drafting is an area where teams look to get a leg up on the competition, it's unlikely that they would release much information on the inner workings or structure of the scouting department.

Also, it's likely that team representatives make clear what areas are off limits for questions, or what questions will not be answered or ignored. This isn't public realm information, and these aren't investigative journalists. This is a private sports business, and these are sports writers. Most fans couldn't care less about the intricacies of over seas scouting, preferring to hear how players' summers went, what their expectations are for next season, etc...

And, you can't really go all aggressive questioning on someone who doesn't have to answer your questions, and doesn't have to grant you access to the team.

 

[BondraTime]

Given that scouting/drafting is an area where teams look to get a leg up on the competition, it's unlikely that they would release much information on the inner workings or structure of the scouting department.

Also, it's likely that team representatives make clear what areas are off limits for questions, or what questions will not be answered or ignored. This isn't public realm information, and these aren't investigative journalists. This is a private sports business, and these are sports writers. Most fans couldn't care less about the intricacies of over seas scouting, preferring to hear how players' summers went, what their expectations are for next season, etc...

And, you can't really go all aggressive questioning on someone who doesn't have to answer your questions, and doesn't have to grant you access to the team.

You'd be surprised what amount of information is actually given by NHL scouts/team reps about what they think of players and what other guys think of players. I've heard first hand knowledge that has come to fruition multiple, multiple times with several teams in the past 3 drafts alone through the grapevine.

 

[Micklebot]

You need both.

You need to pick kids who have the tools to work with, and you have to have strong people in the organization to help them develop those tools.

Of course you need both, they can't just draft me and develop me into the next McDavid, but his point was that the tools have by and large already been identified by the 3rd party scouting services out there like ISS, central Scouting, ect.

The premise is that it's possible that re-investing scouting resources into player development and just going off central scouting/ISS/McKeen's/ect might yield better results. The concept, I suppose is that by investing in amateur scouting, you are simply replicating the work that is readily available.

Teams are betting their scouting and the additional intel the get from it is sufficiently better than what they'd get by reviewing the central scouting and ISS to justify the expense. I don't know enough about the value added by in house scouting vs what those services provide to teams to have an opinion.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Of course you need both, they can't just draft me and develop me into the next McDavid, but his point was that the tools have by and large already been identified by the 3rd party scouting services out there like ISS, central Scouting, ect.

The premise is that it's possible that re-investing scouting resources into player development and just going off central scouting/ISS/McKeen's/ect might yield better results. The concept, I suppose is that by investing in amateur scouting, you are simply replicating the work that is readily available.

Teams are betting their scouting and the additional intel the get from it is sufficiently better than what they'd get by reviewing the central scouting and ISS to justify the expense. I don't know enough about the value added by in house scouting vs what those services provide to teams to have an opinion.

Hmmm for the top 60 players maybe.. going deeper the amount of intel is sparse.
Also a ranking vs a scouting report is different.

 

[Icelevel]

I bet 5 of us carefully selected posters could do very well in next years draft.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

Of course you need both, they can't just draft me and develop me into the next McDavid, but his point was that the tools have by and large already been identified by the 3rd party scouting services out there like ISS, central Scouting, ect.

The premise is that it's possible that re-investing scouting resources into player development and just going off central scouting/ISS/McKeen's/ect might yield better results. The concept, I suppose is that by investing in amateur scouting, you are simply replicating the work that is readily available.

Teams are betting their scouting and the additional intel the get from it is sufficiently better than what they'd get by reviewing the central scouting and ISS to justify the expense. I don't know enough about the value added by in house scouting vs what those services provide to teams to have an opinion.

I dunno.....scouting is more than just looking at rankings. You need to talk to the kids, their coaches and people around them. See them in different situations. And also know the strengths and weaknesses of the people in your own organization (as in, what areas are we good at developing, and where our people fall short).

Assuming we're keeping the Boucher system for awhile, you also need good eyes to see how a kid projects into that system. From what folks say, it is a complex system to learn, so you need kids with a good brain. There's only so much info you can get from a spreadsheet.

 

[Micklebot]

Hmmm for the top 60 players maybe.. going deeper the amount of intel is sparse.
Also a ranking vs a scouting report is different.

Absolutely, but the argument is about value added vs cost associated with it, and as time goes on, more and more data is becoming available. Things like Redline report provide monthly scouting reports and would cost a team less that one week of a scout's salary, not to mention savings on hotels, flights, ect. (mind you, apparently all but one or two teams already subscribes to it)

I'm not saying I agree, but it's an interesting theory.

 

[Tuna99]

Scouting has more to do with your 4th-7th round picks. All the 1st round picks are so heavily scouted and documented it comes down to draft slotting and team needs. Finding your Daniel Alfredsson's, Pavel Datsuyks, Chris Neil's, Mark Stones, Mike Hoffman's - that's where the scouts make thier money. At the top end they know these players inside out, finding a Datsuk playing in a beer league in Siberia is what scuoting lore is made of and sets your franchise up for a decade of making the playoffs.

 

[slamigo]

I guess my point was that I believe that player development may be the more sound investment.