Vaccine and vaccination thread part VII

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Big Muddy

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Dec 15, 2019
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The crisis this time was ten fold larger with lockdowns. The flu is also something that is well understood with a predictable timeline. These situations are apples to oranges.
True, and also worth noting that this has been called a "novel" virus. Seems like medical officials were trying to tamp down things until a vaccine was developed, and tried to prevent hospitals and ICUs from being overrun.

I wonder what these folks would have done instead (just let the virus rip through the population?) and what level of death would have been acceptable to them that would have made their perceived infringements in freedoms worthwhile? Would double the amount of deaths been OK (1.2 million in the U.S.), five times (3 million)? There's a fine line between freedoms and another thing we don't discuss (socioxxxx) it seems.
 

LilySmoov

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May 14, 2011
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Well, obviously to sell vaccines. Not saying he's right but that would be the reason and it's not a crazy suggestion, just likely a very wrong one. Pfizer lobbying hard for a 3 dose program adds weight to the idea as well.
"Ineffective" is the key word. The conspiracy surely must run deeper than the banal pursuit of money.
 

Dubi Doo

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Aug 27, 2008
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Britain, Germany to begin giving 3rd doses of coronavirus vaccine

But I was told here there wouldn't be booster shots, they weren't even talking about it. That was just a few weeks ago. Go figure.
Perhaps you memory is a bit foggy, but @Treb said boosters for the vulnerable were an option, but not needed for the general public.
‘Britain and Germany will both begin offering third coronavirus vaccine shots to at-risk members of the population, with campaigns to administer the injections beginning next month.’

Again, it comes down to each country’s end goal. Do they want to impede the s spread a much as possible? Then a booster for the general public around 6 months makes sense. Do they just want strong protection among the community and especially the at risk, which will also impede shear but not to the same degree as boosters but the general public? Then boosters the at risk and healthcare workers in clinical settings, and send the extra doses to the rest of the world.
 

DuklaNation

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Aug 26, 2004
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Perhaps you memory is a bit foggy, but @Treb said boosters for the vulnerable were an option, but not needed for the general public.
‘Britain and Germany will both begin offering third coronavirus vaccine shots to at-risk members of the population, with campaigns to administer the injections beginning next month.’
No offense, but thats how the first shot started as well. They'll move onto the other groups later. There is a business model at play here.

Pfizer and Moderna raise prices for COVID-19 vaccines in EU- FT

And . . . just in time for the 3rd shot.
 

DuklaNation

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Aug 26, 2004
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Why are you so upset about booster shots?
Not upset. Rather intrigued by the denial of something so blatantly obvious. But denials occurred just weeks ago. They were prepping everyone for this during past months. No way they give up guaranteed money, its a great business.
 

Satans Hockey

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Nov 17, 2010
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Is this even enforceable? There was also a mask mandate for restaurants no one followed.

I have no idea in terms of the law with this stuff, I'd assume there would be fines handed out from the city if you're caught not following it. So probably gonna be a your mileage may vary type of thing depending on where you go.
 

Devilsfan992

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Is this even enforceable? There was also a mask mandate for restaurants no one followed.

ABC will absolutely be sending undercover agents into restaurants. And businesses will be fined and possibly liquor licenses revoked if they don't comply.
 

Treb

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May 31, 2011
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Not upset. Rather intrigued by the denial of something so blatantly obvious. But denials occurred just weeks ago. They were prepping everyone for this during past months. No way they give up guaranteed money, its a great business.

I never said booster wouldn't be needed eventually.

I did say boosting the vulnerable was a possibility and early data suggested it may be beneficial.

Right now, I don't see any data pointing to needing a third dose for the general population, so if they decided to do that without providing said data, I would be against it and I wouldn't be alone in the scientific community.
 

SnowblindNYR

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Nov 16, 2011
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ABC will absolutely be sending undercover agents into restaurants. And businesses will be fined and possibly liquor licenses revoked if they don't comply.

I remember Russian businesses in my area opening up before they were supposed to open up with the staff not wearing a mask.
 

Fourier

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Dec 29, 2006
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Complete opposite of what the CDC said. Hopefully Israel is correct! Wouldn't be the 1st time CDC is wrong.
It's possible both could be correct. The CDC said that initial viral levels in the nasopharynx could be as high in breakthrough cases as they are in unvaccinated cases. This could mean that breakthrough cases can spread the virus. But it seems now that those levels drop quickly in most breakthrough cases which could mean that infectiousness does not last long. Moreover, I heard Peter Hotez mention that they do not know the viral levels in the lower respiratory tract for breakthrough infections. The suspicion is that these could be much lower in breathrough cases becuase the antibody levels can be at a much much lower level to protect the lower tract than in teh nasopharynx. This would then mean potentially significantly less aerosolization which is the primary avenue of spread.

Now I have no idea how much evidence there is to back up any of this. BUt it did sound plausible.
 
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Dubi Doo

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Aug 27, 2008
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Complete opposite of what the CDC said. Hopefully Israel is correct! Wouldn't be the 1st time CDC is wrong.
To be fair, I do think the CDC's wording was more along the lines of "...it's possible a vaccinated person can spread the virus as well as an unvaccinated person"

They didn't really look at transmission from a fully vaxxed person to others. They just compared the viral loads between vaxxed and unvaxxed people, saw they were similar, and put recommendations in place to be cautious especially with cases really surging in certain areas. @Treb Is this what you gathered from the CDCs new guidance?
 
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Treb

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May 31, 2011
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To be fair, I do think the CDC's wording was more along the lines of "...it's possible a vaccinated person can spread the virus as well as an unvaccinated person"

They didn't really look at transmission from a fully vaxxed person to others. They just compared the viral loads between vaxxed and unvaxxed people, saw they were similar, and put recommendations in place to be cautious especially with cases really surging in certain areas. @Treb Is this what you gathered from the CDCs new guidance?

Pretty much.

I don't like how they formulated their guidance with the data they have shown.
 
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Dubi Doo

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Aug 27, 2008
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Pretty much.

I don't like how they formulated their guidance with the data they have shown.
How do you think they should've went about it? I personally they should've recommended masks based on vaccination rate within a community.
 

JMCx4

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Sep 3, 2017
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From the looks of my garden this summer, I'd say one side effect of the white-tailed deer infections is an appetite for any & all plant matter. Except for grass & weeds - THOSE are left to me to deal with. :banghead:
 

Snauen

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Dec 27, 2017
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This is a review of the available data regarding SARS-COV-2 and its effect on the olfactory/neural system. It is a scientific article, so it is not meant for the general public.

The goal is to provide information to other scientists, not spread anxiety in the general public.
To late (already got anxious from reading it).
 

Satans Hockey

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Nov 17, 2010
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I wonder how they handle this for people who legit can't get the vaccine because of medical reasons. There has to be a medical exemption pass of some nature, seems quite unfair to those people to say tough shit stay home when they aren't willingly not getting the vaccine.
 
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