Vaccine and vaccination thread part VII

Status
Not open for further replies.

SnowblindNYR

HFBoards Sponsor
Sponsor
Nov 16, 2011
51,728
30,182
Brooklyn, NY
We're getting some data in this thread from BC and Alberta pointing to the fact not only Americans that are anti-vaccine for political reasons.
 

Devilsfan992

Registered User
Apr 14, 2012
8,623
3,539
We're getting some data in this thread from BC and Alberta pointing that is in fact not only Americans that are anti-vaccine for political reasons.

Did you see the French protests this past weekend? Blows the US out of the water in terms of any political demonstrations against vaccines.
 

Random Comment

Registered User
Mar 5, 2018
815
1,205
Maybe they should have been.

I don't think you're making the point you think you're making.
He’s not, nor is he qualified to make the argument he’s trying to make. If you don’t understand science, Infectious diseases, and basic prevention and control measures, you should probably not make a fool out of yourself online. Bugger off and be appreciative that most people are smart enough to get vaccinated and abide by rules to prevent transmission.

These forums give voices to people who shouldn’t be heard. If it’s talking about hockey, it doesn’t matter if they are wrong because it only amazes them look stupid, and if they influence others it’s just on a inconsequential hockey opinion. When it comes to providing their non-expert advice on what they know as virologists and vaccinologists , it could have implications on others medical decisions, not just themselves. Far more serious.


The worst part is that these vocal minority are impossible to reason with. They just don’t understand. As an ID epidemiologist throughout the pandemic, I’ve learned to ignore the trolls, but I’ll make the odd post late at night when I read bullshit.
 

RoyalRed

Registered User
Apr 8, 2013
475
497
Did you see the French protests this past weekend? Blows the US out of the water in terms of any political demonstrations against vaccines.
Good for the French. I don't think we in North America would know real oppression if it was right in front of our noses. More and more people are waking up but so many just don't see what's wrong with this picture.

Just going to leave this year. Solidarity with those of us who don't want this vaccine.



He’s not, nor is he qualified to make the argument he’s trying to make. If you don’t understand science, Infectious diseases, and basic prevention and control measures, you should probably not make a fool out of yourself online. Bugger off and be appreciative that most people are smart enough to get vaccinated and abide by rules to prevent transmission.

These forums give voices to people who shouldn’t be heard. If it’s talking about hockey, it doesn’t matter if they are wrong because it only amazes them look stupid, and if they influence others it’s just on a inconsequential hockey opinion. When it comes to providing their non-expert advice on what they know as virologists and vaccinologists , it could have implications on others medical decisions, not just themselves. Far more serious.


The worst part is that these vocal minority are impossible to reason with. They just don’t understand. As an ID epidemiologist throughout the pandemic, I’ve learned to ignore the trolls, but I’ll make the odd post late at night when I read bullshit.
People like you can't stand that some people choose not to mindlessly put their health in the medical establishment's hands.

Nobody owns us. Nobody has the right to coerce a shot we don't want, no matter the perceived risk they feel we are. It's just not done in a moral society.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Blender

Registered User
Dec 2, 2009
51,305
45,253
He’s not, nor is he qualified to make the argument he’s trying to make. If you don’t understand science, Infectious diseases, and basic prevention and control measures, you should probably not make a fool out of yourself online. Bugger off and be appreciative that most people are smart enough to get vaccinated and abide by rules to prevent transmission.

These forums give voices to people who shouldn’t be heard. If it’s talking about hockey, it doesn’t matter if they are wrong because it only amazes them look stupid, and if they influence others it’s just on a inconsequential hockey opinion. When it comes to providing their non-expert advice on what they know as virologists and vaccinologists , it could have implications on others medical decisions, not just themselves. Far more serious.


The worst part is that these vocal minority are impossible to reason with. They just don’t understand. As an ID epidemiologist throughout the pandemic, I’ve learned to ignore the trolls, but I’ll make the odd post late at night when I read bullshit.
You say you're an epidemiologist but they watched a video on Yotube and read some Facebook memes. I'm just not sure whose opinion should be accepted.

Just going to leave this year. Solidarity with those of us who don't want this vaccine.



I couldn't get through the second paragraph without there being blatantly false statements.

It is entirely reasonable and legitimate to say ‘no’ to insufficiently tested vaccines for which there is no reliable science.
The vaccines have undergone all the clinical trials required and there is plenty of reliable science on their safety and effectiveness.

Long-term effects are unknown.
...because this is a nonsense phrase for vaccines, it's not even wrong to talk about the "long term effects".

Let us see which field of expertise these people who wrote the letter have.

Denis Rancourt, PhD - physics
Angela Durante, PhD - nursing
Claus Rinner, PhD - geography and environmental Studies
Laurent Leduc, PhD - systematic theology
Donald Welsh, PhD - vascular biology
John Zwaagstra, PhD - biotechnology
Jan Vrbik, PhD - mathematics and statistics
Valentina Capurri, PhD - history and geography

Oh. Not a single expert in immunology, epidemiology, or another relevant field. Why should anyone care about their unsupported opinions on this topic?
 
Last edited:

RoyalRed

Registered User
Apr 8, 2013
475
497
You say you're an epidemiologist but they watched a video on Yotube and read some Facebook memes. I'm just not sure whose opinion should be accepted.



I couldn't get through the second paragraph without there being blatantly false statements.


The vaccines have undergone all the clinical trials required and there is plenty of reliable science on their safety and effectiveness.


...because this is a nonsense phrase for vaccines, it's not even wrong to talk about the "long term effects".

Let us see which field of expertise these people who wrote the letter have.

Denis Rancourt, PhD - physics
Angela Durante, PhD - nursing
Claus Rinner, PhD - geography and environmental Studies
Laurent Leduc, PhD - systematic theology
Donald Welsh, PhD - vascular biology
John Zwaagstra, PhD - biotechnology
Jan Vrbik, PhD - mathematics and statistics
Valentina Capurri, PhD - history and geography

Oh. Not a single expert in immunology, epidemiology, or another relevant field. Why should anyone care about their unsupported opinions on this topic?
I didn't say you should care. I'm just happy there's a growing number in our corner.

Everything is politicized nowadays so I don't really care about who is an expert in what. The experts driving this craziness are paid shills for big pharma.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Blender

Registered User
Dec 2, 2009
51,305
45,253
I didn't say you should care. I'm just happy there's a growing number in our corner.

Everything is politicized nowadays so I don't really care about who is an expert in what. The experts driving this craziness are paid shills for big pharma.
Which explains the problem here. These are topics that require very specific subject matter expertise, and a Gish Gallop letter from a group of non-experts should not be convincing to you just because you agree with it ideologically.
 

LilySmoov

Registered User
May 14, 2011
2,039
510
I didn't say you should care. I'm just happy there's a growing number in our corner.

Everything is politicized nowadays so I don't really care about who is an expert in what. The experts driving this craziness are paid shills for big pharma.
Why would pharmaceutical companies pay people (allegedly) to promote an ineffective medical treatment? What exactly is the motivation here?
 

Fourier

Registered User
Dec 29, 2006
25,445
19,581
Waterloo Ontario
Again I ask, where were the doctors asking for restrictions to save lives when hospitals were supposedly overwhelmed in 2017-18?
The crisis this time was ten fold larger with lockdowns. The flu is also something that is well understood with a predictable timeline. These situations are apples to oranges.
 
  • Like
Reactions: JMCx4

Snauen

Registered User
Dec 27, 2017
1,349
526

Hate it when people post something without any comment at all of what it says. Made the misstake last night of trying to read that (English isnt my first language) ) before going to sleep.. Having Alzheimers in the family and having had three months of smell and taste loss.. Is this study saying Covid will make you have a neurological disease sooner or later, if having had loss of smell symptoms or is the study/publication merely speculating about it?
 
Last edited:
Mar 1, 2002
66,107
12,072
Hate it when people post something without any comment at all of what it says. Made the misstake last night of trying to read that (English isnt my first language) ) before going to sleep.. Having Alzheimers in the family and having had three months of smell and taste loss.. Is this study saying Covid will make you have a neurological disease sooner or later, if having had loss of smell symptoms or is the study/publication merely speculating about it?

There is no way to know if there are long term effects.......until we get to "long term".

This JUST got here....long term takes decades.
 

D1az

Registered User
Oct 29, 2009
1,362
682
Finland
Thank you. I hate this division. :(

I like it. I think it was an important wake up call for us to see how animalistic we still are as people when even a sentence like "I'd like to be careful and wait with making up my mind before deciding on what to do" sends masses of people into rage and the worst subjects calling for people's livelihood to be destroyed, or in some cases even wanting the punishments to go really down the line of violent insanity.
 

Snauen

Registered User
Dec 27, 2017
1,349
526
There is no way to know if there are long term effects.......until we get to "long term".

This JUST got here....long term takes decades.
Agreed, reasonable stance to have in this.
That study though, its like 20 pages long, it looks like they have included every scientific source there is out there on the matter whit that long list of sources. Yet its merely speculation.. I agree, whats the main purpose of that text really, to spread anxiety? Cause, like you said no way to know. Long term. And Covid19 isnt the only virus that make you loose the smell for a while. Its not something new, nothing about that fact in there, from what I could read.
 

JMCx4

Censorship is the Sincerest Form of Flattery
Sep 3, 2017
13,479
8,328
St. Louis, MO
Missouri's latest info-based strategy for public education ...

 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: D1az

The Hanging Jowl

Registered User
Apr 2, 2017
10,311
11,422
Why would pharmaceutical companies pay people (allegedly) to promote an ineffective medical treatment? What exactly is the motivation here?

Well, obviously to sell vaccines. Not saying he's right but that would be the reason and it's not a crazy suggestion, just likely a very wrong one. Pfizer lobbying hard for a 3 dose program adds weight to the idea as well.
 

Dubi Doo

Registered User
Aug 27, 2008
19,222
12,696
I didn't say you should care. I'm just happy there's a growing number in our corner.

Everything is politicized nowadays so I don't really care about who is an expert in what. The experts driving this craziness are paid shills for big pharma.
A growing number? You realize vaccinations are rising again in the states? Also, 70% of adults in the US have had at least one dose. I’d say it’s the exact opposite. There’sa growing number of people getting vaxxed because the alternative is a naive choice.
All 50 states report rising vaccination rates as COVID infections surge, data shows
 
Last edited:

Treb

Global Flanderator
May 31, 2011
28,181
27,936
Montreal
Agreed, reasonable stance to have in this.
That study though, its like 20 pages long, it looks like they have included every scientific source there is out there on the matter whit that long list of sources. Yet its merely speculation.. I agree, whats the main purpose of that text really, to spread anxiety? Cause, like you said no way to know. Long term. And Covid19 isnt the only virus that make you loose the smell for a while. Its not something new, nothing about that fact in there, from what I could read.

This is a review of the available data regarding SARS-COV-2 and its effect on the olfactory/neural system. It is a scientific article, so it is not meant for the general public.

The goal is to provide information to other scientists, not spread anxiety in the general public.
 

42

Registered User
Sep 8, 2013
8,585
6,617
Toronto Nebula
Nobody owns us. Nobody has the right to coerce a shot we don't want, no matter the perceived risk they feel we are. It's just not done in a moral society.
Whose moral virtues are you talking about? Is it moral to make a choice that causes misery or death to others? By not getting vaccinated, you are allowing the virus to continue to spread and infect more people than it would if vaccinated. This in turn causes hospitals to be overburdened, health care workers burning out, potentially people seeking treatment for non-COVID related sickness not being treated, people dying and giving plenty of opportunities for the virus to mutate into a variant that is even more transmissible than Delta or perhaps even evade the vaccines. Does this sound like a moral choice to you? Compare that to asking people to take a vaccine that has been shown to be effective and safe. If you believe otherwise, you are not looking at the evidence but believing lies and conspiracy theories.
 

Dubi Doo

Registered User
Aug 27, 2008
19,222
12,696
Some good information coming from Israel:

Israel's public health chief says evidence points to waning COVID vaccine immunity
A lot of what we already know:
Antibodies may be waning = more infections = boosters for those at risk due to not as strong of an immune response.

But there’s some really good news in here:
‘“We saw that 80 percent of vaccinated individuals who have become confirmed cases themselves had zero contact with confirmed cases, while 10 percent had one contact of confirmed cases," she said, adding that "their ability to infect others is 50 percent lower than those who are not vaccinated."
She noted while there is spread among household contacts, the risk of confirmed cases of vaccinated individuals infecting others is about 10 percent while the risk of infecting more than one individual is lower than 10 percent.’

This is how you turn a virus that has been kicking your ass lately into a minor threat, and is exactly why it’s important to have a high vaccination rate within a community, because not only are you massively reducing severe outcomes, but your also reducing transmission.
 
Last edited:

Mario_is_BACK!!

ACK! ACK ACK! ACK!!!
Nov 29, 2003
8,363
7,141
Charleston, SC
www.caseandpointsports.com
I didn't say you should care. I'm just happy there's a growing number in our corner.

Everything is politicized nowadays so I don't really care about who is an expert in what. The experts driving this craziness are paid shills for big pharma.

Your corner is filled with spoiled man-children who only care about themselves and think they know far more than they should. But continue to shamefully bathe in your ignorance that’s just killing more people. I wish it only made you look bad and didn’t harm the rest of us.

I like it. I think it was an important wake up call for us to see how animalistic we still are as people when even a sentence like "I'd like to be careful and wait with making up my mind before deciding on what to do" sends masses of people into rage and the worst subjects calling for people's livelihood to be destroyed, or in some cases even wanting the punishments to go really down the line of violent insanity.

And if all of the people holding out were in this mindset it’s fine. We have enough info out there and we’d be happy to educate. Instead so many are entitled children who just say “I know more than the experts and I’m never taking it.” THAT is what is enraging. You want to learn about it? Great, let’s talk. Instead almost everyone that hasn’t had it that comes in to this thread does it to stir up shit and brag about their ignorance.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Devilsfan992

Registered User
Apr 14, 2012
8,623
3,539
Some good information coming from Israel:

Israel's public health chief says evidence points to waning COVID vaccine immunity
A lot of what we already know:
Antibodies may be waning = more infections = boosters for those at risk due to not as strong of an immune response.

But there’s some really good news in here:
‘“We saw that 80 percent of vaccinated individuals who have become confirmed cases themselves had zero contact with confirmed cases, while 10 percent had one contact of confirmed cases," she said, adding that "their ability to infect others is 50 percent lower than those who are not vaccinated."
She noted while there is spread among household contacts, the risk of confirmed cases of vaccinated individuals infecting others is about 10 percent while the risk of infecting more than one individual is lower than 10 percent.’

This is how you turn a virus that has been living your ass lately into a minor threat, and is exactly why it’s important to have a high vaccination rate within a community, because not only are you massively reducing severe outcomes, but your also reducing transmission.

Complete opposite of what the CDC said. Hopefully Israel is correct! Wouldn't be the 1st time CDC is wrong.
 

Milhouse40

Registered User
Aug 19, 2010
22,058
24,580
Just going to leave this year. Solidarity with those of us who don't want this vaccine.



It's funny to see someone calling others for fearmongering and then going on doing exactly that.
Fear the medical establishment, fear the medias, fear the mob, fear the "Pfizer world's lab".....
No reliable science, not enough testing blah blah blah.....FEAR.

And starting the whole thing with a lie.

There's not 29% people who don't want the vaccine....there's only 18.3% who have still not taken the vaccine from those who can and it's shrinking everyday in Canada

People like you can't stand that some people choose not to mindlessly put their health in the medical establishment's hands.

Is it just possible for you to understand the 81.3% of the population are not all "mindless" sheep and that our research and understanding didn't give the same conclusion as yours?

Why most of you guys are always thinking that you are smarter or "more awake" than everyone else?
 
Last edited:

SnowblindNYR

HFBoards Sponsor
Sponsor
Nov 16, 2011
51,728
30,182
Brooklyn, NY
Some good information coming from Israel:

Israel's public health chief says evidence points to waning COVID vaccine immunity
A lot of what we already know:
Antibodies may be waning = more infections = boosters for those at risk due to not as strong of an immune response.

But there’s some really good news in here:
‘“We saw that 80 percent of vaccinated individuals who have become confirmed cases themselves had zero contact with confirmed cases, while 10 percent had one contact of confirmed cases," she said, adding that "their ability to infect others is 50 percent lower than those who are not vaccinated."
She noted while there is spread among household contacts, the risk of confirmed cases of vaccinated individuals infecting others is about 10 percent while the risk of infecting more than one individual is lower than 10 percent.’

This is how you turn a virus that has been living your ass lately into a minor threat, and is exactly why it’s important to have a high vaccination rate within a community, because not only are you massively reducing severe outcomes, but your also reducing transmission.

So unvaccinated people have a 20 percent chance of transmitting the virus? Also this seems to be in direct opposition to what the CDC study showed.
 

Treb

Global Flanderator
May 31, 2011
28,181
27,936
Montreal
Just going to leave this year. Solidarity with those of us who don't want this vaccine.



People who signed this:
Angela Durante, PhD in History and Visual Culture. Portrait Photographer and expert in the Visual Iconography of the Body.
Denis Rancourt, PhD in Physics. Former professor and now a civil liberties activist.
Claus Rinner, PhD in Geography. Expert in geographic visualization and multi-criteria decision analysis to support effective spatial decision-making.
Laurent Leduc, PhD in Ethics, Former professor at UoT
Jan Vrbick, PhD in Mathematics
Valentina Capurri, PhD in Geography

Then you have Donald Welsh who is a biologist, but compared Ontario's measure to the holocaust. London medical school prof called out for invoking the Holocaust in COVID tweets | London Free Press
John Zwaagstra is also a biologist. He said Florida ''has done remarkably well, health-wise and economically, throughout the pandemic and that with a population more than half that of Canada squeezed into a landmass similar to Nova Scotia.'' OPINION: It's time to follow the scientific method -- and re-evaluate Canada's COVID approach | Toronto Sun
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad

-->