Vaccine and vaccination thread part III

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Treb

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???????????

What seems to be the problem with what I said?

UK were clearly scared of the variant and pushed first dosing everyone as fast as they could instead of following the dosing regiment. Your following post clearly shows it as they have less than 1 million fully vaccinated people despite vaccination starting more than 28 days ago. They were somewhat following it the first two weeks which is where half the 2nd dose were given (400k in the week of Jan 10th) and then a very low number of 2nd doses since then.

Official UK Coronavirus Dashboard
 

Big Muddy

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Im going to take my son (he's only 16 months) to see me grandma today. She hasnt seen him since the summer time. We're both vaccinated. Im honestly grateful to be vaccinated. It's been a tough year, but this will be a bright spot. For sure.
Ya, the ability to visit family again is big deal for many. That's especially true for those that have older parents living on the other side of a border. Time isn't on their side in a situation like this.
 

Devilsfan992

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Im going to take my son (he's only 16 months) to see me grandma today. She hasnt seen him since the summer time. We're both vaccinated. Im honestly grateful to be vaccinated. It's been a tough year, but this will be a bright spot. For sure.

Wonderful news! :)
 
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stampedingviking

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A friend of mine who lives in Hertfordshire just got his COVID vaccination appointments, and the doses are 2-1/2 months apart. Is that routine in the UK? :dunno:
Had my first on 11 Ferbruary, the second is booked for 29 April, 11 weeks after the first.

What seems to be the problem with what I said?

UK were clearly scared of the variant and pushed first dosing everyone as fast as they could instead of following the dosing regiment. Your following post clearly shows it as they have less than 1 million fully vaccinated people despite vaccination starting more than 28 days ago. They were somewhat following it the first two weeks which is where half the 2nd dose were given (400k in the week of Jan 10th) and then a very low number of 2nd doses since then.

Official UK Coronavirus Dashboard
Not so much panic, as they decided that second doses would be within 12 weeks of the first.

Second dose numbers will soon be ramping up.
 
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dortt

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Without any data at a relevant scale on such a thing.

It was a panic move by the government.

Based upon the Israel data, however, the one dose seems to be the best course to take.

The one dose of the Pfizer seems to be more effective than the 1 dose of the JNJ
 

Treb

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Based upon the Israel data, however, the one dose seems to be the best course to take.

The one dose of the Pfizer seems to be more effective than the 1 dose of the JNJ

I disagree.

It's also much more of a risk with variants as the SA and Brazil ones since 1 dose doesn't generate a good amount of antibodies against them.
 

Devilsfan992

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J&J's vaccine approved by the FDA today. This is awesome news.



It is good news. I hope they use it pragmatically. I would focus on 65 and under and those who don't have underlying conditions. Focus Pfizer and Moderna on the most vulnerable.

I disagree.

It's also much more of a risk with variants as the SA and Brazil ones since 1 dose doesn't generate a good amount of antibodies against them.

I kinda agree with Dort in a way. One dose of Pfiser/Moderna seems to be more effective than one dose of J and J. But at same time, we should prioritize the higher two dose efficacy for the at risk population. If supply wasn't an issue, I wouldn't even consider J and J. But since it is, I'd focus it on the population who isn't at risk. For example, I would focus J and J on teachers, grocery workers etc.. and Moderna/Pfizer to complete the rest of the elderly.
 
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dortt

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I kinda agree with Dort in a way. One dose of Pfiser/Moderna seems to be more effective than one dose of J and J. But at same time, we should prioritize the higher two dose efficacy for the at risk population. If supply wasn't an issue, I wouldn't even consider J and J. But since it is, I'd focus it on the population who isn't at risk. For example, I would focus J and J on teachers, grocery workers etc.. and Moderna/Pfizer to complete the rest of the elderly.

Agreed. Give the vulnerable to the 2 doses. Give 1 to the healthy. I'd rather have 1 dose of the Pfizer over JNJ, but would take the JNJ as I am only 38
 

JMCx4

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... I kinda agree with Dort in a way. One dose of Pfiser/Moderna seems to be more effective than one dose of J and J. But at same time, we should prioritize the higher two dose efficacy for the at risk population. If supply wasn't an issue, I wouldn't even consider J and J. But since it is, I'd focus it on the population who isn't at risk. For example, I would focus J and J on teachers, grocery workers etc.. and Moderna/Pfizer to complete the rest of the elderly.
Occupational risk categorization for coronavirus is a risky business. While teachers may be down on the risk list, teacher's aides (who as the "go-fers" of public & private education engage in a lot more close quarters activities & are exposed to more potential infection sources) are far more at risk. And while grocery workers may seem to benefit from visible physical protections & store occupancy controls, the "customer facing" clerks throughout the stores were identified by a study late last year in Boston as having a significantly elevated risk of contracting the virus over their coworkers in other job categories. So please be thoughtful in making value judgments regarding who needs more protection via vaccination.
 
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Treb

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It is good news. I hope they use it pragmatically. I would focus on 65 and under and those who don't have underlying conditions. Focus Pfizer and Moderna on the most vulnerable.



I kinda agree with Dort in a way. One dose of Pfiser/Moderna seems to be more effective than one dose of J and J. But at same time, we should prioritize the higher two dose efficacy for the at risk population. If supply wasn't an issue, I wouldn't even consider J and J. But since it is, I'd focus it on the population who isn't at risk. For example, I would focus J and J on teachers, grocery workers etc.. and Moderna/Pfizer to complete the rest of the elderly.

Agreed. Give the vulnerable to the 2 doses. Give 1 to the healthy. I'd rather have 1 dose of the Pfizer over JNJ, but would take the JNJ as I am only 38

I was talking about 1 dosing everyone before giving 2nd doses. People who had Pfizer/Moderna should get their doses around the tested time imo. I don't like the idea of delaying them too much.

J&J was tested as single dose and should be used as such at least until their 2 doses data come out.
 

JMCx4

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From: The Detroit Free Press
Hunt for COVID-19 vaccine takes Michiganders to other states: 'They're desperate'

KRISTEN JORDAN SHAMUS | DETROIT FREE PRESS | 16 hours ago (Feb 27, 2021)

Jodi Schumaker cried while she drove north on Interstate-75 through Kentucky on Tuesday afternoon, feeling defeated as she headed home to Michigan without getting a COVID-19 vaccine.

Her hopes had been crushed by bad weather that delayed coronavirus vaccine shipments all over the U.S., including the delivery to the Walmart store in Mississippi where she and her husband had appointments Monday to get shots. ...

Schumaker's hunt for a coronavirus vaccine is centered almost entirely on her husband, David, who is 60, paraplegic, has diabetes, high blood pressure, and congestive heart failure. ...

For someone as medically fragile as David Schumaker, contracting the virus could prove deadly. His wife has made it her mission to find a way to get him immunized — even it meant a 14-hour car ride to Laurel, Mississippi.
"This shot could could mean saving his life, you know?" Jodi Schumaker said. "It doesn't mean that we're going to be able to go out and go places even if we get this until the world's a much safer place for him." ...

Read more at:
Hunt for COVID-19 vaccines takes Michigan couple to Mississippi
 

Devilsfan992

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Occupational risk categorization for coronavirus is a risky business. While teachers may be down on the risk list, teacher's aides (who as the "go-fers" of public & private education engage in a lot more close quarters activities & are exposed to more potential infection sources) are far more at risk. And while grocery workers may seem to benefit from visible physical protections & store occupancy controls, the "customer facing" clerks throughout the stores were identified by a study late last year in Boston as having a significantly elevated risk of contracting the virus over their coworkers in other job categories. So please be thoughtful in making value judgments regarding who needs more protection via vaccination.

If it was practical, I would give every person the Moderna vaccine but we don't have enough to vaccinate everyone, especially with the risks of variants in the spring. We need to ensure we can vaccinate as many people as possible while providing the most protection to those at risk.

The simple fact is this virus targets the elderly and those with preconditions. Only 4.2% of deaths occur to those under 50 years old. Of these 4.2%, I'm sure a handful of those had preconditions.

upload_2021-2-28_9-9-8.png


In your study linked:

The researchers analyzed 104 employees of a Boston grocery store who underwent COVID-19 testing in May as part of a citywide mandate. They found that 20% of the workers tested positive and, in addition to the accelerated risk of coronavirus infection faced by workers in customer-centric roles, 76% presented as asymptomatic.

This is exactly my point. They may be more likely to get the virus, but if they do they will handle it better than other groups of the population. If they are vaccinated with J and J, not only are they much less likely to get the virus, but likely won't have any serious side effects.
 
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dortt

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I was talking about 1 dosing everyone before giving 2nd doses. People who had Pfizer/Moderna should get their doses around the tested time imo. I don't like the idea of delaying them too much.

J&J was tested as single dose and should be used as such at least until their 2 doses data come out.

Even though we now have the data showing a single Pfizer dose is working better than JNJs vaccine?
 

Treb

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Even though we now have the data showing a single Pfizer dose is working better than JNJs vaccine?

One dose is a bit below the J&J vaccine.

J&J 72% at preventing infection and 86% for severe covid.

Interesting, I simplified it

Effectiveness rate

days afterinfectionillnesshospitalizationsevere illdeathAsymptomatic
14-20 days 1st dose46%57%74%62%72%29%
21-27 days 1st dose60%66%78%80%84%52%
7 days 2nd dose92%94%87%92%N/A90%
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
That's promising results.

in Quebec, we started vaccinating general population 85+ , little late to the party, but it's beginning
 
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dortt

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Fauci again saying vaccinated people need to wear a mask He says there is no data that shows that vaccinated people cannot spread the disease

He is starting to come across as a senile ostrich. The data in post 993 shows that fully vaccinated people very rarely spread the disease
 
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Dubi Doo

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Aug 27, 2008
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One dose is a bit below the J&J vaccine.

J&J 72% at preventing infection and 86% for severe covid.
Does that 72% include asymptomatic infection? If so- does that mean it's 72% effective at preventing transmission?
 

JMCx4

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Mate of mine in England got his first dose on Saturday; he didn't say which vaccine type. Reported this a.m. feeling "achy and lethargic." I suggested he seek appointment to Parliament. ;)
 
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Troy McClure

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Fauci again saying vaccinated people need to wear a mask He says there is no data that shows that vaccinated people cannot spread the disease

He is starting to come across as a senile ostrich. The data in post 993 shows that fully vaccinated people very rarely spread the disease
Government health people always preach the safest route until they have concrete reasons to say otherwise. That's kinda their job. Once preliminary data becomes certainty about how well these vaccines are working, he'll update what he's saying.
 
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