Raptors Discussion: v94 | Raptors land 4th pick in NBA draft lottery. Draft set for July 29

[Cor]

Lakers weren’t even willing to include Horton-Tucker.

Miami weren’t interested in giving up more than Duncan Robinson.

Keeping Lowry was the right move

 

[StevenB]

true, it's definitely not completely bad. Trading the best player in the organization's history for peanuts would have been bad in its own way. I guess I'm just more annoyed at other teams for not offering more

I think people are overlooking the aspect that we won’t get any big names in FA if we trade players who have been loyal to us for peanuts. I’m sure people can excuse the DD trade cause it was an unprecedented situation but trading Lowry for peanuts would scare people from signing here (as if we already attract big names in the first place)

I’m sure if we got an asset like Herro for Lowry considering the fact we essentially gave Lowry his choice on where we wanted to go as long as it made sense for us, people would understand that isn’t an act of disloyalty.

Can’t wait for the draft and FA this season, definitely gonna be fun to watch lol

 

[stickty111]

true, it's definitely not completely bad. Trading the best player in the organization's history for peanuts would have been bad in its own way. I guess I'm just more annoyed at other teams for not offering more

Thats pretty much it. Making an awful trade just to trade him makes no sense. It's not Masai's fault teams didn't offer more.
A good GM holds his ground and thats what he did.

 

[JetsWillFly4Ever]

f*** it lets make a playoff run anyway lol I'm still only really scared of Brooklyn if this team pulls their heads out of their asses and plays some basketball, and stays healthy. How far out are we anyway after that 9 game slide lol.

 

[hoc123]

Thats pretty much it. Making an awful trade just to trade him makes no sense. It's not Masai's fault teams didn't offer more.
A good GM holds his ground and thats what he did.

To compare with another situation, I would much rather do what the Raptors did with Lowry than what the Rockets just did with Oladipo.

 

[stickty111]

 

[Transplanted Caper]

The Raptors have OG, FVV, and Pascal. They aren't going to rebuild, so the idea of Lowry re-signing is also feasible. Knows the market, likes it, and Toronto can offer the most money. Maybe, a better team holds more appeal, but the $ in Toronto will matter if the Heat or 76ers try to get him on the cheap. He's not Jason Spezza-ing (bless you, Spezz) to go play in Philly, for instance.

 

[trellaine201]

I’m not nearly attached to Kyle as some of you but seems like a waste not to get something. He’s 35 years old.

 

[al secord]

How mad are you right now that they didn’t accept that Herro offer?

Coffee out the nose. Thanks!

 

[stickty111]

I’m not nearly attached to Kyle as some of you but seems like a waste not to get something. He’s 35 years old.

Have you ever been attached to anyone? Also it's not about attachment, it's about managing assets. You don't trade a franchise icon for anything.

 

[sparxx87]

That's fair. And thank you for not just jumping on the "OMG he's being racist!" bit. I knew that mentioning the white kid thing was probably going to get taken the wrong way, but hoped that people might understand the point I was trying to make rather than presume it was something it wasn't.

I have to ask though, is he a playmaker? Just as a point of comparison, VanVleet isn't usually regarded as a particularly strong assists guy (it's certainly part of his game, but he is more of a scorer) and his rate assists totals are like double what Herro's are. and Herro's #s would put him 4th on Maimi roughly in line with Igoudala, who hasn't been considered a functional playmaker since his Philly days

Nah, I agree with you. Being white is part of the hype, but only because he’s legit.



Only 1 game but he’s in his bag. Scoring from all 3 levels on Jaylen Brown as well as running point where the announcer comments on his versatility at the position.

His role is to score in Miami - they run a lot of their offense through Bam and Jimmy as well as Dragic and Nunn who are best with the ball in their hands. He’s still being developed behind those guys. He’d get more assists if they gave him the ball more.

 

[Cor]

Overall;

Powell (+ Thomas) for Trent + Hood (+ 2nd) is solid when you look at it.

Moving Davis for 2nd gives us more playing time for Flynn.


I can understand the disappointment of almost expected and accepting Lowry being traded, and then turns out it doesn’t happy.

But when looking at what we actually did, it was a pretty respectable deadline day for us.

 

[Nylanderthal]

Man the same flawed logic. As if any team in any position should trade expirings at the deadline. Thats not how it works.
Raps wanted to bring back Serge.
Considering Lowry has said he wants to stay, I say yes he might stay.

Idk he seems like exactly the kind of guy who’ll sign an mle with a top team in a good spot (LAC/LAL/MIA)
I’m not suggesting every team always no, but we suck this year, not winning and shouldn’t be capping ourselves out with a mediocre treadmill type roster.
A frp and thybulle/maxey or a younger pg like Schroeder would’ve been a good haul and stuff to work with going forward

 

[Cor]

My prediction is that Pascal Siakam will be traded before/at the draft and Kyle Lowry will be given a 2 year, 40 million dollar (total) extension

 

[stickty111]

Idk he seems like exactly the kind of guy who’ll sign an mle with a top team in a good spot (LAC/LAL/MIA)
I’m not suggesting every team always no, but we suck this year, not winning and shouldn’t be capping ourselves out with a mediocre treadmill type roster.
A frp and thybulle/maxey or a younger pg like Schroeder would’ve been a good haul and stuff to work with going forward

Kyle will get more then just MLE. We don't even know what Philly put in the offer. Schroeder doesn't do much for us

 

[DFF]

People forget that Lowry is not that good anymore. That’s the main reason he was not traded. Nobody wants to give up much for him.

 

[Transplanted Caper]

I’m not nearly attached to Kyle as some of you but seems like a waste not to get something. He’s 35 years old.

But what's "something"?

Take Miami. They weren't including Herro and don't have a 1st to trade until 2028. So, you're down to Duncan Robinson and contract filler - including filler that may be signed through next season which impacts your flexibility. You can't just disagree on a prospect/player you like, circle back around and take 2 lesser ones instead, that's just not available, here. The parameters of a Lowry trade were always going to be really narrow in-season.

The Raptors can be a good team again next year, and could have options at their disposal that exceed what was offered, today in terms of flexibility, teams to trade with, or even re-signing Lowry.

 

[The Nemesis]

I think Morey forgot to account for championship pedigree in his analytics. I'd have gone for Lowry.

That only matters if you think that "championship pedigree" is a significant driver of anything. The reality seems to be that there's no strong evidence to conclusively prove it does one way or another. There are studies across sports that say it makes a difference, some that say it doesn't, and some that say it does but only to a degree small enough that it might not matter in the end. Just like clutchness it feels like one of those things that works when it works and doesn't matter when it doesn't. Or it makes no difference until it does, at which point it is treated as mattering.

It's also something that is full of noise. People will assign the "championship experience" benefit to the Raptors winning in 2019 because of Kawhi, but how much of that is because Kawhi had been there before and how much of it is because he's an almost unmatched two-way MVP who impacts the game at an elite level more than almost anyone else in the NBA? How much of championship experience earned is because a team is simply good? At which point it becomes kind of a self-fulfilling and circular prophecy because a team wins because they're good and are good because they're "winners"

If the Sixers lose is it because Hill isn't a "winner" whereas Lowry is? Or is it because Hill simply isn't as good as Lowry is? Or is it because they ran into a hot team? Or a better team? or went cold? or random dumb luck and bounces? Or some combination of everything because winning a championship is exceptionally hard?

I don't fault Philly for making the decision they did. It might not work for them, but they thought it was the right decision and by most accounts they made a deal where they didn't get taken to the cleaners in the process. And every trade is the right move until it isn't. Or the wrong one until it is. Unless it's just a bad one (which this one doesn't appear to be). And maybe Masai's price for Lowry was such that they wouldn't have acquired him except in exchange for pieces whose loss makes Philly a worse team. Because again going back to the Kawhi deal, part of the value there was that the cost of DeRozan + Poeltl + picks was that it wasn't anything the Raptors couldn't easily absorb the subtraction of. What might've happened if the Spurs played hardball and the price was Lowry + Poeltl? DeRozan + Siakam? DeRozan + Poeltl + Powell/Anunoby? Maybe the Raptors don't win the title and the price paid isn't looked on so favorably.

 

[Bloomberg]

I think if you take a long term view of winning a championship, there is no difference between trading Lowry for a poor package and keeping Lowry. The NBA is dominanted by only a few teams and trades that don't involve super stars makes little difference. So why not keep Lowry, the guy who helped us win the only championship in franchise history, if you can't get the return you wanted?

 

[The Nemesis]

People forget that Lowry is not that good anymore. That’s the main reason he was not traded. Nobody wants to give up much for him.

Kyle Lowry, 20-21
17.4 PPG, 7.5 APG, 5.6 RPG (as a tiny PG!), 1.1 SPG while playing 34 minutes per game

shooting .491 from the floor inside the arc, .395 from 3

career per game rates as a Raptor:
34.6 MPG, 17.6 PPg, 7.1 APG, 4.9 RPG, 1.5 SPG, shooting .475 2P%, .376 3P%

per 100 possession/36 minute rates well within the scope of his performance over his career and the last few years.

Yes, clearly Lowry has declined hard and sucks and has no value. That's it exactly

 

[donghabs98]

So would you trade him for anything we can get then? Thats what a bad management does.
We can still resign him

People are too fixated at "not getting anything" for Lowry. Raps could easily get something for Lowry, could they get anything worthwhile is the big question and clearly they couldn't and thats not the end of the world.

 

[DFF]

Kyle Lowry, 20-21
17.4 PPG, 7.5 APG, 5.6 RPG (as a tiny PG!), 1.1 SPG while playing 34 minutes per game

shooting .491 from the floor inside the arc, .395 from 3

career per game rates as a Raptor:
34.6 MPG, 17.6 PPg, 7.1 APG, 4.9 RPG, 1.5 SPG, shooting .475 2P%, .376 3P%

per 100 possession/36 minute rates well within the scope of his performance over his career and the last few years.

Yes, clearly Lowry has declined hard and sucks and has no value. That's it exactly

So in a league run by star players, why nobody was offering anything worthwhile?

 

[stickty111]

So in a league run by star players, why nobody was offering anything worthwhile?

Could be many reasons.
His age. Could get him in FA so why trade much for him now.

 

[hamzarocks]

Honestly Lowry should get a statue being built for him

Leafs have legends row, make another name and start adding legendary Raptors players onto their. So far only Kyle lowry has the longevity, playoff success, individual success and incredible moments to be an inductee

Kawhi was here for too little, Vince ended sourly and had little team success, demar was to inconsistent and choked in playoffs, Bosh is similar to Vince except without the drama when he left

 

[tmlfan98]

Great, now we probably get a play-in participation trophy to show for this year and Lowry walks for nothing to a real contender (maybe hope for a sign and trade). Change the slogan from We The North to We The Ninth (Seed).