Raptors Discussion: v77| Season of Kawhi III: No Kawhi, no problem -or- the death & rebirth of Kyle Lowry

[BAM]

Names look pretty and all but Curry runs that team
Everyone knows without Curry, it's a lot of KD ISO ball


You think 5-6 is a small sample size?
Warriors were 17-14 without Curry last season. With Curry, 41-10!

Curry is an MVP candidate and numbers back it up

Did you even read my post? Historically, a team with 2 top 5 players don't get consideration for MVP because they're impact kind of gets mixed. I'm well aware of Curry's impact on that team, Durant is a hired gun more than anything, that team lives on Curry and the gravity he has on the court.

However, due to that team having 5 all stars, voters won't vote for Curry, that's all I'm saying.

 

[Glenn Isildur Healy]

Did you even read my post? Historically, a team with 2 top 5 players don't get consideration for MVP because they're impact kind of gets mixed. I'm well aware of Curry's impact on that team, Durant is a hired gun more than anything, that team lives on Curry and the gravity he has on the court.

However, due to that team having 5 all stars, voters won't vote for Curry, that's all I'm saying.

How many times have 2 top 5 players played on the same team?

You're looking at Shaq and Kobe. Shaq was pretty much a top 5 MVP candidate each and every season once Kobe established himself (even won MVP in 2000). Both top 5 players in the league. Oh yeah and the one season Shaq wasn't a top 5 MVP candidate, Kobe was.

 

[BAM]

How many times have 2 top 5 players played on the same team?

You're looking at Shaq and Kobe. Shaq was pretty much a top 5 MVP candidate each and every season once Kobe established himself (even won MVP in 2000). Both top 5 players in the league. Oh yeah and the one season Shaq wasn't a top 5 MVP candidate, Kobe was.

Wade was a top 3-5 player when Lebron first joined the Heat, he regressed to a top 10 player the year after and then got worse the next 2 seasons.

Durant only won 1 MVP during his time in OKC, Westbrook wins the season after he leaves. The MVP voting typically goes to the player with the best stats on a top 3 team in either conference with Westbrook's historic season being the outlier. Curry will be a top 5 MVP candidate, but there's no way he's winning.

I am well aware of your stats once again, they don't matter to voters. If MVP's go to the player most responsible for team success, Lebron is the MVP last year, not Harden.

 

[Kurtz]

How many times have 2 top 5 players played on the same team?

You're looking at Shaq and Kobe. Shaq was pretty much a top 5 MVP candidate each and every season once Kobe established himself (even won MVP in 2000). Both top 5 players in the league. Oh yeah and the one season Shaq wasn't a top 5 MVP candidate, Kobe was.

You've brought up Shaq - I think that works against your argument.

Shaq was an absolutely overwhelming player, who should have won 3-4 MVPS. But he was punished because he played next to Kobe, and thus only has 1 MVP for his career, which is absurd.

 

[Glenn Isildur Healy]

You've brought up Shaq - I think that works against your argument.

Shaq was an absolutely overwhelming player, who should have won 3-4 MVPS. But he was punished because he played next to Kobe, and thus only has 1 MVP for his career, which is absurd.

My argument is that having 2 Top 5 players doesn't prevent one of those players from being an MVP candidate. I believe this to be true with Curry and shown with Shaq. Simply being an MVP candidate, not winning the MVP.

However, it's obvious they are undervalued as individuals when playing with another great player

 

[zeke]

5man unit RAPM

183 total 5 man units with minimum 200 possessions

1. Curry/Klay/Durant/GreenLooney
2. Joseph/Tyreke/McDermott/Young/Sabonis
3. Vanvleet/Lowry/Green/Siakam/Ibaka
4. Lowry/Green/Kawhi/Siakam/Ibaka
5. Murray/Craig/Beasley/Millsap/Jokic

7. VanVleet/Green/Kawhi/Siakam/Ibaka
13. Lowry/Green/Kawhi/Siakam/Valanciunas


So all 4 of our units with 200+ possessions are elite.

That includes:

- our healthy starting lineup
- our starting lineup missing it's #1 star (replaced by Fred)
- our starting lineup missing it's #2 star (replaced by Fred)
- our starting lineup with either of Jobaka

 

[hockeywiz542]

It is not the time to stress about the possibility that second-year wing OG Anunoby – scheduled to return to the team for the Raptors’ upcoming three-game road trip after an absence from the team due to personal reasons – might one day morph into some version of Leonard.

It’s the time to consider packaging Anunoby and point guard Delon Wright – likely the team’s most marketable trade chips – if that’s what it takes to help the real-life Leonard help the Raptors get to the NBA Finals.

It’s not time to fret over the team’s mounting luxury tax bill – it’s already at $34.7-million — or worry about trading another first-round pick in addition to the one they owe to San Antonio in 2019 from the Leonard deal.

But what to do?

Anchored by Leonard, the Raptors starting five is locked in – Kyle Lowry, Danny Green, Leonard, Pascal Siakam and Serge Ibaka have the NBA’s second-best net rating among five-man lineups with at least 300 minutes played — so tinker with that at your own peril.

The primary areas the Raptors have fallen short are three-point shooting – despite putting up the 10th-most threes per game, they rank only 24th in accuracy – and bench strength, even though depth was expected to be a calling card this season.

But is there a move the Raptors can make that can truly add rather than simply plug one hole while weakening the team in another area?

It might not be that easy.

 

[hockeywiz542]

The Bradley Beal Sweepstakes Is On: Execs Dish on Deals for NBA's Top Trade Chip

In the East, Toronto and Boston are among the most motivated teams to come calling, for obvious but unique reasons. The Raptors have made it known in front-office circles that they're interested in adding an elite shooting guard, rival executives say. A package including Jonas Valanciunas, Delon Wright and a first-round pick might be a sensible starting point to the discussion, one of the execs said.

 

[IceColdBear]

The Bradley Beal Sweepstakes Is On: Execs Dish on Deals for NBA's Top Trade Chip

If we can add Beal in a package like that without giving up OG, I would do it in a heartbeat.

Lowry/Beal/Kawhi/Siakam/Ibaka
Vanvleet/Green/Miles/OG/Monroe

Powell getting some minutes as well.

That starting five would be lethal, and the bench would still be solid.

We'd have a big four of Lowry, Beal, Kawhi, & Siakam - each of them bringing distinct talents to the table. Lowry the distributor bull dog, Beal the sharpshooter, Kawhi the two-way beast, and Siakam the athletic 4 who runs the floor.

We'd still be heavy underdogs against GS, but I would like our odds a hell of a lot better.

 

[robertmac43]

13 year anniversary of Kobe dropping 81 on us.... Wow time flies!

 

[Suntouchable13]

Wait a minuter, Beal? I was told that we have no room to make trades?

 

[Eyedea]

Wait a minuter, Beal? I was told that we have no room to make trades?

Salary has to be moved out in the trade. In this case it would be JV + Fred/Powell/Miles to make him fit cap wise.

 

[Glenn Isildur Healy]

I have zero issues with this. I want Kawhi to be fresh come April, May and June

 

[IceColdBear]

I have zero issues with this. I want Kawhi to be fresh come April, May and June

I'd like to see Kyle get as much rest as possible too.

He's always lying on his back when he isn't on the court during games, he plays a physical style of basketball, and he's getting up there in age.

Plus it helps guys like Pascal & OG get more looks in high-leverage situations than they would otherwise.

 

[Glenn Isildur Healy]

I'd like to see Kyle get as much rest as possible too.

He's always lying on his back when he isn't on the court during games, he plays a physical style of basketball, and he's getting up there in age.

Plus it helps guys like Pascal & OG get more looks in high-leverage situations than they would otherwise.

With Lowry, I don't want him sitting out games unless he's hurt/injured
Lowry needs to get into a rhythm and hopefully he can find his shot

What we should do is cut down on Lowry's minutes per game but he needs to play IMO

 

[IceColdBear]

With Lowry, I don't want him sitting out games unless he's hurt/injured
Lowry needs to get into a rhythm and hopefully he can find his shot

What we should do is cut down on Lowry's minutes per game but he needs to play IMO

I somewhat agree, but Lowry has had recurring back problems for several years.

From experience when I played hockey growing up, once you have a back problem, it's really easy to re-injure yourself.

He clearly has nagging back problems that affect him every time he plays, considering he's always lying down during games when he's not on the court.

I am not worried at all about his shooting problems short term. He needs to be fit and find a rhythm with his shot for the playoffs, which are still months away.

 

[BorntoLose]

Kawhi out vs Indy too i get load management but gotta get more reps in with Lowry before the playoffs at some point

 

[trellaine201]

Load management and fans paying $150 for tickets. No thanks. Injury sure. If I was a paying fan I’d be pissed for this excuse.

 

[Jozay]

Load management and fans paying $150 for tickets. No thanks. Injury sure. If I was a paying fan I’d be pissed for this excuse.

Definitely sucks for the home fans. In a perfect world he would be rested on away games, but they planned this stretch for him to get rest and it just happens to be on a homestand.

 

[BLONG7]

Definitely sucks for the home fans. In a perfect world he would be rested on away games, but they planned this stretch for him to get rest and it just happens to be on a homestand.

Casual fan here guys, but why does Leonard miss so much time? Lingering injury?

 

[robertmac43]

What we should do is cut down on Lowry's minutes per game but he needs to play IMO

100% Agree. Allow Lowry to find some more consistent shooting and at the same time get the ball in the hands of the younger guys as they take on a slightly bigger role. Best of both worlds as we get closer to the post season.

 

[robertmac43]

Casual fan here guys, but why does Leonard miss so much time? Lingering injury?

It's precautionary for the most part. He is coming off a serious injury only played 9 games last year

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

Sure I'll participate in #BellLetsTalk. Why wouldn't I support a corporation in this mental health awareness endeavour that fired an employee who was dealing with a mental illness?

 

[canucksfan]

Siakam is a treat to watch

 

[robertmac43]

Siakam is so good as he continues to show. Steps up in so many situation and as only a third year player he is only going to continue to get better