Raptors Discussion: v75| Season of Kawhi Part 1: Greatest expectations

[lovemyleafs]

@zeke you're highly mistaken if you think Gary Harris is nothing more than a decent player.

 

[The Nemesis]

I was thinking something more along the lines of Ibaka for cap, and youth like OG/Delon for value.

Ibaka has minimal to no value. He has a contract through next season so it's not even like the TWolves would get any kind of cap savings since they'd be trading an expiring player to begin with. If anything, Sending out Ibaka would probably require sweetener, at which point you're looking at Ibaka + OG + Wright as a baseline. And that's even worse than Lowry + OG/Wright because now you've turned the Raptors strength (depth) into a weakness.

 

[zeke]

@zeke you're highly mistaken if you think Gary Harris is nothing more than a decent player.

or maybe I'm not?

 

[Kurtz]

or maybe I'm not?

Harris is pretty universally seen as a very good 3+D player.

 

[zeke]

Harris is pretty universally seen as a very good 3+D player.

and a good 3+D player is....

....a decent player.

 

[lovemyleafs]

and a good 3+D player is....

....a decent player.

right... cuz Klay is a decent player....

 

[Glenn Isildur Healy]

come on now, there is nothing elite about Gary Harris. He is a decent player. nothing more.

last 2yrs stats

Andre: 31.7mpg, 21.8usg%, 53.6ts%, 21.9per, .162ws48, .064vorp48, 3.3bpm, 0.6rpm
Jokic: 30.3mpg, 23.9usg%, 62.0ts%, 25.3per, .219ws48, .117vorp48, 7.7bpm, 6.4rpm

Griffin: 34.0mpg, 28.5usg%, 55.7ts%, 21.2per, .150ws48, .069vorp48, 3.6bpm, 3.0rpm
(Harris: 32.3mpg, 22.5usg%, 56.6ts%, 17.0per, .124ws48, .036vorp48, 0.9bpm, 1.1rpm)
Millsap: 32.6mpg, 23.6usg%, 54.5ts%, 17.6per, .123ws48, .048vorp48, 2.0bpm, 3.5rpm

Bullock: 23.7mpg, 15.2usg%, 60.0ts%, 13.2per, .113ws48, .031vorp48, 0.5bpm, -0.2rpm
Harris: 33.0mpg, 19.7usg%, 60.3ts%, 16.5per, .118ws48, .039vorp48, 1.2bpm, 1.2rpm

Smith: 24.5mpg, 20.7usg%, 50.2ts%, 15.1per, .090ws48, .012vorp48, -1.0bpm, 0.1rpm
Barton: 31.1mpg, 20.9usg%, 55.6ts%, 15.9per, .104ws48, .033vorp48, 0.7bpm, -0.1rpm

Jackson 27.1mpg, 26.7usg%, 51.3ts%, 15.3per, .071ws48, .007vorp48, -1.4bpm, -2.0rpm
Chandler: 31.3mpg, 18.1usg%, 54.4ts%, 12.9per, .072ws48, .014vorp48, -0.9bpm, -1.2rpm


Tolliver: 22.5mpg, 14.3usg%, 63.4ts%, 12.6per, .113ws48, .031vorp48, 0.6bpm, -0.1rpm
Plumlee: 23.1mpg, 17.5usg%, 56.8ts%, 17.7per, .129ws48, .052vorp48, 2.3bpm, 0.2rpm

Kennard: 20.0mpg, 17.2usg%, 56.0ts%, 12.1per, .085ws48, .007vorp48, -1.5bpm, -0.7rpm
Murray 26.6mpg, 22.3usg%, 55.2ts%, 14.4per, .076ws48, .010vorp48, -1.2bpm, -0.6rpm

Johnson: 22.4mpg, 15.7usg%, 46.3ts%, 8.3per, .032ws48, .003vorp48, -1.7bpm, -1.7rpm
Lyles: 17.7mpg, 21.4usg%, 53.5ts%, 14.3per, .087ws48, .002vorp48, -1.8bpm, -1.4rpm

Ennis: 22.8mpg, 13.3usg%, 58.5ts%, 11.1per, .096ws48, .017vorp48, -0.6bpm, -1.0rpm
Harris: 17.8mpg, 20.0usg%, 55.7ts%, 13.4per, .092ws48, .010vorp48, -1.2bpm, 0.5rpm

(Bradley: 32.4mpg, 22.6usg%, 52.5ts%, 12.3per, .042ws48, .002vorp48, -2.2bpm, -2.5rpm)
(Mudiay: 22.3mpg, 23.4usg%, 47.9ts%, 11.2per, .002ws48, -.027vorp48, -4.2bpm, -5.1rpm)


So yeah, Jokic over Drummond is a bigger advantage than I allowed, because Jokic is awesome, but Jokic is just one guy, and not a super high usage guy at that. Without a healthy and productive Millsap, that's not a roster that inspires much fear, even if they played in the east.


let's compare them to the 8th seed in the east:



Jokic: 30.3mpg, 23.9usg%, 62.0ts%, 25.3per, .219ws48, .117vorp48, 7.7bpm, 6.4rpm
Porter: 32.1mpg, 16.7usg%, 61.5ts%, 17.8per, .167ws48, .070vorp48, 3.8bpm, 4.3rpm

Millsap: 32.6mpg, 23.6usg%, 54.5ts%, 17.6per, .123ws48, .048vorp48, 2.0bpm, 3.5rpm
Wall: 35.7mpg, 30.1usg%, 53.3ts%, 21.9per, .130ws48, .063vorp48, 3.2bpm, 1.9rpm

Harris: 33.0mpg, 19.7usg%, 60.3ts%, 16.5per, .118ws48, .039vorp48, 1.2bpm, 1.2rpm
Beal: 35.6mpg, 27.1usg%, 58.3ts%, 19.2per, .131ws48, .048vorp48, 1.9bpm, 1.7rpm

Chandler: 31.3mpg, 18.1usg%, 54.4ts%, 12.9per, .072ws48, .014vorp48, -0.9bpm, -1.2rpm
Gortat: 28.2mpg, 15.1usg%, 57.2ts%, 15.1per, .121ws48, .028vorp48, 0.3bpm, -0.1rpm

Murray 26.6mpg, 22.3usg%, 55.2ts%, 14.4per, .076ws48, .010vorp48, -1.2bpm, -0.6rpm
Morris: 29.1mpg, 20.0usg%, 55.1ts%, 13.5per, .082ws48, .014vorp48, -0.8bpm, 0.3rpm


Plumlee: 23.1mpg, 17.5usg%, 56.8ts%, 17.7per, .129ws48, .052vorp48, 2.3bpm, 0.2rpm
Mahinmi: 15.7mpg, 15.1usg%, 60.1ts%, 12.8per, .103ws48, .023vorp48, -0.2bpm, -0.1rpm

Barton: 31.1mpg, 20.9usg%, 55.6ts%, 15.9per, .104ws48, .033vorp48, 0.7bpm, -0.1rpm
Oubre: 24.0mpg, 17.4usg%, 52.8ts%, 10.7per, .072ws48, .004vorp48, -1.7bpm, -2.0rpm

Harris: 17.8mpg, 20.0usg%, 55.7ts%, 13.4per, .092ws48, .010vorp48, -1.2bpm, 0.5rpm
Satoransky: 18.2mpg, 13.2usg%.57.7ts%, 13.3per, .113ws48, .022vorp48, -0.2bpm, 0.8rpm

Lyles: 17.7mpg, 21.4usg%, 53.5ts%, 14.3per, .087ws48, .002vorp48, -1.8bpm, -1.4rpm
Frazier: 19.5mpg, 15.1usg%, 49.5ts%, 12.0per, .077ws48, -.002vorp48, -2.1bpm, -1.9rpm

Mudiay: 22.3mpg, 23.4usg%, 47.9ts%, 11.2per, .002ws48, -.027vorp48, -4.2bpm, -5.1rpm
Scott: 17.0mpg, 19.5usg%, 57.5ts%, 12.7per, .073ws48, -.009vorp48, -2.7bpm, -2.0rpm


was denver a better roster than the wizards last year? pretty close.

If being a top 10 SG in the league is just a decent player and nothing more than that's what Gary Harris is

Gary Harris is an elite 3 point shooter in the league who plays elite defense. He would be the clear 3rd best player on Detroit and the 3rd best player on Washington. What's crazy is that he's only 23 years old. He's a star in the making no doubt.

I would take Denver over Detroit, Washington, Miami, Milwaukee all comfortably. Denver would've been fighting against Indiana for the 5th seed in the East.

 

[zeke]

If being a top 10 SG in the league is just a decent player and nothing more than that's what Gary Harris is

Gary Harris is an elite 3 point shooter in the league who plays elite defense. He would be the clear 3rd best player on Detroit and the 3rd best player on Washington. What's crazy is that he's only 23 years old. He's a star in the making no doubt.

eh, he's an undersized 2 that can shoot the 3....but I think you're exaggerating his defensive play.

3rd best player on detroit, like he is on denver, sure. on washington he'd be 4th best, imo (behind a true elite 3+D player in Porter).

I would take Denver over Detroit, Washington, Miami, Milwaukee all comfortably. Denver would've been fighting against Indiana for the 5th seed in the East.

with a healthy millsap, maybe. but as good as Jokic is a Jokic-Harris 1-2 punch is no playoff lock in the east.

 

[BlueForever75]

Where Monroe will help most is when JV gets into early foul trouble as he does once every 3 games. We no longer have a hole to fill. Monroe is an above average offensive center in this league and an above average rebounder. Yes he lacks in D but that where we have others on the floor to help him. If our perimeter defenders are better now with Leonard and Green, this means less will have open lanes to the rim...meaning rim protection will only be needed to cleanup those defensive rebounds which Monroe is fantastic at.

 

[Glenn Isildur Healy]

eh, he's an undersized 2 that can shoot the 3....but I think you're exaggerating his defensive play.

3rd best player on detroit, like he is on denver, sure. on washington he'd be 4th best, imo (behind a true elite 3+D player in Porter).

Being undersized doesn't matter if you can play. Well Gary Harris did get all-defensive votes this season so it's not just me.

Jamal Murray, Gary Harris and Will Barton would've all been considered Detroit's 3rd best player.
Otto Porter is good (an advanced stats dream) but I would take Harris over him based on defensive play as there's not much difference between them offensively.

​

with a healthy millsap, maybe. but as good as Jokic is a Jokic-Harris 1-2 punch is no playoff lock in the east.

Well Millsap missed more than half the season and Denver still won 46 games. More than Washington, Miami and Milwaukee.

 

[hockeywiz542]

 

[BlueForever75]

Seems like a class guy that may or may not have received some bad counselling on how to manage his last year in SA. To me agents sometimes along with the inner circle of the player causes things to get out of hand. Would not surprise me if this was one of those cases.

 

[chaosrevolver]

The overreaction to leonard not specifically mentioning Toronto in his good bye to SA is a bit ridiculous.

 

[Maplebeasts]

We're not playing on Christmas again? 59 wins last season, we traded for Kawhi and we get shafted for a crappy Knicks team that might not even have Kristaps? LMAO

 

[Deebo]

We're not playing on Christmas again? 59 wins last season, we traded for Kawhi and we get shafted for a crappy Knicks team that might not even have Kristaps? LMAO

It's about US TV, very few care to watch the Raptors in the states.

Kawhi or not.

 

[IceColdBear]

We're not playing on Christmas again? 59 wins last season, we traded for Kawhi and we get shafted for a crappy Knicks team that might not even have Kristaps? LMAO

I'm not going to watch a meaningless regular season basketball game on Christmas.

I'm glad we aren't playing on Christmas, I'm sure a lot of people feel the same way.

 

[Morgs]

Delete.

 

[Eyedea]

I'm not going to watch a meaningless regular season basketball game on Christmas.

I'm glad we aren't playing on Christmas, I'm sure a lot of people feel the same way.

It’s not earth shattering, but sports can be an easy way to gather people. It’s also a ratings behemoth because people are generally at their or a family member’s home. Quite a few players want that game to show at a national level the talent that they (and their team) possess.

 

[Jozay]

it would've been cool to see Raptors @ Spurs on christmas day. It seemed like an obvious choice to me.

But im sure the NBA has very good reasons why the Raptors arent playing one.

 

[Kurtz]

It's about US TV, very few care to watch the Raptors in the states.

Kawhi or not.

While you're generally right, it should be noted that Raptors games drew better ratings in the US last year than Bucks, Jazz, and either Portland or OKC games, and all of these teams are on the Xmas schedule.

 

[Glenn Isildur Healy]

Over or Under 10 National TV games this season?

I guarantee it'll be way over 10 (barring Kawhi injury) so even if we're not playing on Christmas, we're getting tons of exposure in the US this year

I also know most NBA players would rather spend Christmas with family than playing so at least Raptors players will get to see their family.

 

[The Nemesis]

it would've been cool to see Raptors @ Spurs on christmas day. It seemed like an obvious choice to me.

But im sure the NBA has very good reasons why the Raptors arent playing one.

Toronto on ESPN or ABC means that half+ of the audience isn't in their advertising sphere and it means they can't sell ad space as highly and get that sweet, sweet commercial revenue.

 

[Kurtz]

Toronto on ESPN or ABC means that half+ of the audience isn't in their advertising sphere and it means they can't sell ad space as highly and get that sweet, sweet commercial revenue.

That makes sense in theory, but is incorrect in practice.
Warriors, Cavs, NBA’s Most-Watched Teams Locally and Nationally


The Raptors had 5 national (US) games last year. In the USA, their games drew the 16th best ratings in the league - ahead of multiple teams who actually made it on the Xmas schedule this year.

The ratings should only improve this season.

Spurs also had the 9th best ratings, very slightly behind NYK.


The NBA just made a bad decision. Raps-Spurs would be a national ratings bonanza.

 

[The Nemesis]

That makes sense in theory, but is incorrect in practice.
Warriors, Cavs, NBA’s Most-Watched Teams Locally and Nationally


The Raptors had 5 national (US) games last year. In the USA, their games drew the 16th best ratings in the league - ahead of multiple teams who actually made it on the Xmas schedule this year.

The ratings should only improve this season.

Spurs also had the 9th best ratings, very slightly behind NYK.


The NBA just made a bad decision. Raps-Spurs would be a national ratings bonanza.

They drew the 16th best ratings but while I don't have the exact listing of games they had on ESPN/TNT last year, I'm pretty sure that they were mostly against GS/Bos/Cle which were the 3 highest rated teams on that list. They only got higher ratings because they had high-demand opponents. I imagine if they had been placed up against low-to-midcard ratings draw teams the numbers would've been much bleaker.

 

[Leaf Rocket]

The overreaction to leonard not specifically mentioning Toronto in his good bye to SA is a bit ridiculous.

pretty annoying yea.