Raptors Discussion: v75| Season of Kawhi Part 1: Greatest expectations

[The Nemesis]

We're back to 1000 post limited threads, so time to roll things over again.

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[Suntouchable13]

Any chance we get a Christmas day game this year?

 

[The Nemesis]

Any chance we get a Christmas day game this year?

Doubt it.

 

[AllDay28]

NBA Contracts (<-- Sportac page) ppl talked of Melos contract being the worst in the NBA. with him being bought out, whos #1 now? Conley at 30/yr? Wiggins? Im guessing Chandler Parsons is pretty terrible.

 

[Damisoph]

Still can't believe we got Kawhi.

 

[Puckstuff]

Raptors are holding a press conference tomorrow afternoon it looks like

 

[hockeywiz542]

Why the other Kawhi Leonard trades never happened

The Spurs had the financial advantage with Leonard, though that didn't end up making a difference in trying to resolve their issues with the All-Star forward.

On July 16, Leonard became eligible to receive a five-year, $221 million super max extension from the Spurs. After the trade, the most Leonard can receive in an extension (six months after the trade) will be $108 million over four years (starting in 2019-20). In free agency, Leonard will be eligible to sign a five-year, $190 million contract with Toronto (barring another trade before the deadline) or a four-year, $141 million deal with a team that has cap space.

San Antonio also made it clear that pieces keeping the franchise competitive in the playoff race this season were a priority in any trade. As we'll see, few teams outside of Toronto could swing such a deal for Leonard if he's likely to be a one-year rental.

Complicating factors

• Selling more than a one-year rental for Kawhi. Difficult for the Spurs to acquire more of the Raptors' young core or better picks given their lack of leverage.

• Trading an All-Star in DeRozan with three years left on his deal vs. Leonard's expiring contract.

• What is Plan B if Leonard leaves? Toronto will stay competitive in 2019-20 and rebuild the following year. The Raptors still will have $102 million in committed team salary if Leonard walks in free agency, but only Powell ($10.8 million) and Anunoby ($3.9 million team option) are under contract for 2020-21.

 

[AllDay28]

its almost as if Masai knew what he was doing the whole time...

 

[The Nemesis]

its almost as if Masai knew what he was doing the whole time...

Well that can't be...

 

[TorontoTrades]

If they cant convince Kawhi to stay this could be the biggest blunder in Raptors history.

 

[Jozay]

If they cant convince Kawhi to stay this could be the biggest blunder in Raptors history.

Kawhi could walk for nothing and the trade would still be a good one.

 

[TorontoTrades]

Kawhi could walk for nothing and the trade would still be a good one.

I'm not a raps fan but the biggest hold up the franchise will always have is. Majority of the league is American players that will rarely chose the one out of country team in the league. Attracting top talent and keeping top talent will always be harder for Toronto. DeRozan wanted to stay in Toronto. He wanted to play, live and win in Toronto. How do you let that go for an almost certain rental.

 

[The Nemesis]

If they cant convince Kawhi to stay this could be the biggest blunder in Raptors history.

There's basically no downside to this trade. They weren't winning with the team as it was constructed. So now this trade forces a change in one of 4 ways:

1) They contend with Kawhi, keep him, and can rejigger the lineup with a new core.
2) They contend with Kawhi, he bolts, and they now have a boatload of cap space to use elsewhere on free agents or trade acquisitions
3) They don't contend with Kawhi, he bolts, and they can finish a teardown by trading Lowry/JV/Ibaka/etc for other retooling assets and bounce back by surrounding the OG/Wright/Siakam/VanVleet core with other good pieces
4) They don't contend with Kawhi, flip him at the deadline as a rental, and rebuild/retool from there by also being able to trade off other assets as in #3.

The only way this trade is a loss for the Raptors is if you believe DeMar was going to show up this year suddenly knowing/being willing to play D and hit 3s. Because unless he was a transformed player who overcame his glaring weaknesses, we've seen the peak of this team as it had been assembled.

 

[AllDay28]

If they cant convince Kawhi to stay this could be the biggest blunder in Raptors history.

this confidence in something so incorrect reminds me of when people thought Kobe was better than Lebron. You'll come around eventually. Kawhi is tiers above DD

 

[Jozay]

I'm not a raps fan but the biggest hold up the franchise will always have is. Majority of the league is American players that will rarely chose the one out of country team in the league. Attracting top talent and keeping top talent will always be harder for Toronto. DeRozan wanted to stay in Toronto. He wanted to play, live and win in Toronto. How do you let that go for an almost certain rental.

How many times are you gonna running it back with the same core that cant get it done?

Especially after this year, a change was needed. I didnt expect Derozan to go, but it makes sense. Plus you get out of DeRozans contract, which is big.

And you can still trade Kawhi at the deadline if he still says theres no chance he's coming back if you want recoup some assets.

 

[Nylanderthal]

I'm not a raps fan but the biggest hold up the franchise will always have is. Majority of the league is American players that will rarely chose the one out of country team in the league. Attracting top talent and keeping top talent will always be harder for Toronto. DeRozan wanted to stay in Toronto. He wanted to play, live and win in Toronto. How do you let that go for an almost certain rental.

Because he’s not good enough, fuzzy feels aside.

 

[The Nemesis]

I'm not a raps fan but the biggest hold up the franchise will always have is. Majority of the league is American players that will rarely chose the one out of country team in the league. Attracting top talent and keeping top talent will always be harder for Toronto. DeRozan wanted to stay in Toronto. He wanted to play, live and win in Toronto. How do you let that go for an almost certain rental.

DeRozan is not a top talent in the sense that you want him to be.

You let him go for a player that IS FAR BETTER THAN DEROZAN CAN EVER CONCEIVE OF BEING.

That can't be stressed enough. I hate drawing hockey comparisons because they are usually, without exception, broken and ill-fitting, but what you suggest is essentially that a team should be happy to have a good 2nd liner that wants to be here instead of being able to trade him for a superstar that gives you a shot at the cup.

We've seen the DeRozan Raptors go as far as they can. It's time to roll the dice and see if the Kawhi Raptors can go farther. And who knows, maybe he sticks around. Lowry was supposed to bail when he was traded to the Raptors and he didn't. Chris Paul was supposed to bail when he was traded to the Clippers and he didn't. Paul George was apparently as good as gone when LeBron signed in LA and he chose to stay with the Thunder. Why not Kawhi once he realizes that this is a chance to be on an East-leading team with youth and the chance to get better and in a market that won't grind him into a paste like big US ones will?

Also for what it's worth DeRozan hasn't even been the best player on the Raptors for the last 4 years. Kyle Lowry is easily better overall and more valuable to the franchise than DeRozan has been in terms of on-court performance.

 

[inthe6ix]

I'm not a raps fan but the biggest hold up the franchise will always have is. Majority of the league is American players that will rarely chose the one out of country team in the league. Attracting top talent and keeping top talent will always be harder for Toronto. DeRozan wanted to stay in Toronto. He wanted to play, live and win in Toronto. How do you let that go for an almost certain rental.

Agree on all fronts. There is too much homerism on this board looking for instant gratification of a new toy that will only be around for a short time. The false narrative that if he walks, who cares, we'll just sign X with all the cap room and expiring contracts is flawed - the same people who say this should know full well that attracting top talent north of the border is virtually impossible because marquee ballers simply don't want to play here as UFAs.

I could warm up to this trade more if LBJ was still around haunting us, but to see him bolt out West and for us to ditch DD because he could only help us get 59 wins and did nothing in the playoffs (when LBJ beat down everyone in our conference in the playoffs), is very short-sighted.

 

[TorontoTrades]

I get they needed a shake up but doesn't mean dumping DeRozan was the answer.

The East is up for grabs now and the Raptors with last years roster have just as good of a chance as anyone.

No question Kawhi is the better talent however it remains to be seen how much the injury will change him and if you lose him after a year you now have nothing to show for it. It's poor asset management. How they didn't get some conversation with Kawhi about his interest in staying is beyond me. For all we know they did talk to him and his reps but given how this is shaking out in the media it's pretty clear they didn't or they didn't care what he said and did the trade anyway.

 

[inthe6ix]

I get they needed a shake up but doesn't mean dumping DeRozan was the answer.

The East is up for grabs now and the Raptors with last years roster have just as good of a chance as anyone.

No question Kawhi is the better talent however it remains to be seen how much the injury will change him and if you lose him after a year you now have nothing to show for it. It's poor asset management. How they didn't get some conversation with Kawhi about his interest in staying is beyond me. For all we know they did talk to him and his reps but given how this is shaking out in the media it's pretty clear they didn't or they didn't care what he said and did the trade anyway.

This. With LBJ gone, had we only dumped Casey, I would have been perfectly comfortable going with the same lineup as last year. Pretty confident that even with Hayward and Kyrie returning and Philly improving, that we still take the East this season with DD on the roster.

 

[TorontoTrades]

Also to those saying Kawhi can take the Raptors further than DD. In an East that just lost LeBron I agree they have as good of a shot as any to go to the finals but you're joking yourself if you think they don't get swept by Golden State.

Kawhi walks and now you're figuring out who you are and trying to rebuild a good team. From a business stand point how do you not look at what you did last season and watch LeBron leave and think we can win the East and go deep for multiple years. Meaning maximizing revenue and providing a quality product. Toronto doesn't have the pull to put together a team that will beat the Warriors. It just won't happen. They are now taking a shot for one year. Hoping they can get to the finals and see how if lightning can strike against Curry/Thompson/Durant/Green/Cousins. They get one shot at that. If it goes south and Kawhi sticks to what he's been saying, Raptors return to the middle of the pack.

You don't trade a committed top 5 SG in the league to take one shot at maybe the most stacked team of all time.

 

[Eyedea]

You don't trade a committed top 5 SG in the league to take one shot at maybe the most stacked team of all time.

You do if it betters your shot at making the finals. One shot or not, the impact of keeping DeMar for 3 years is less than having Kawhi for 1.

 

[inthe6ix]

DeRozan is not a top talent in the sense that you want him to be.

You let him go for a player that IS FAR BETTER THAN DEROZAN CAN EVER CONCEIVE OF BEING.

That can't be stressed enough. I hate drawing hockey comparisons because they are usually, without exception, broken and ill-fitting, but what you suggest is essentially that a team should be happy to have a good 2nd liner that wants to be here instead of being able to trade him for a superstar that gives you a shot at the cup.

We've seen the DeRozan Raptors go as far as they can. It's time to roll the dice and see if the Kawhi Raptors can go farther. And who knows, maybe he sticks around. Lowry was supposed to bail when he was traded to the Raptors and he didn't. Chris Paul was supposed to bail when he was traded to the Clippers and he didn't. Paul George was apparently as good as gone when LeBron signed in LA and he chose to stay with the Thunder. Why not Kawhi once he realizes that this is a chance to be on an East-leading team with youth and the chance to get better and in a market that won't grind him into a paste like big US ones will?

Also for what it's worth DeRozan hasn't even been the best player on the Raptors for the last 4 years. Kyle Lowry is easily better overall and more valuable to the franchise than DeRozan has been in terms of on-court performance.

He forfeited a $221M supermax contract because he wanted to play in LA - he will potentially give up another $49M by not re-uping with us for 5 years should he choose 4 years @$141M somewhere else like most expect. This is not a Paul George situation - he really wants to go home and we're holding that up... obviously money means nothing to him.

 

[AllDay28]

Also to those saying Kawhi can take the Raptors further than DD. In an East that just lost LeBron I agree they have as good of a shot as any to go to the finals but you're joking yourself if you think they don't get swept by Golden State.
.

ah the 2nd argument when the first one loses. The raps will at least get to the finals with Kawhi, something that would never happen with DD

 

[Eyedea]

He forfeited a $221M supermax contract because he wanted to play in LA - he will potentially give up another $49M by not re-uping with us for 5 years should he choose 4 years @$141M somewhere else like most expect. This is not a Paul George situation - he really wants to go home and we're holding that up... obviously money means nothing to him.

The prevailing thought behind this is that his uncle, who works in marketing and supervises Kawhi, is trying to expand Kawhi's brand and feels that the endorsements in LA would exceed whatever he would have received in San Antonio. This is still about the money.